Tripleskate Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 As the title implies, the BMW is up for a quick cooling refresh, and I have been looking into running something beyond the normal 50/50 Anti-freeze. I live in SoCal, and it rarely touches 32*F so antifreeze isn't really necessary. I drive the car hard, with half a dozen (minimum) HPDEs and a full season of AutoX per year, so keeping the car running cooler is the chief concern. Right now, the car maintains ~205-215*F water temp and ~270-280*F oil temp under hard use, and ideally, I would like to see both of those numbers go down a bit. So who has used products like Engine Ice or the like, and has it been an effective purchase? Or should I plan on running mostly distilled water with some water wetter? TIA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I've ran Engine Ice in my bike for years now. I can't say for sure if the bike actually runs cooler, but if you spill it on a racetrack they won't get pissed, it's biodegradable so Jesus is happy...plus it looks cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMeanGreen Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I've always used Water Wetter in my Formula after the supercharger was installed over a decade ago. My engine temps from stock went up a decent amount due to the extra rotational mass and nothing can beat the stock cooling fans, which mine had to be replaced due to space limitations (I now run slim line units). IIRC, I believe I saw a 12*F reduction in coolant temps with the Water Wetter via OBDII feedback, I also run a 50/50 mix of coolant and water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I am not an expert? Is that higher (coolant temp) than normal? It sounds to me like your coolant temp is hovering around your t-stat opening/closing point. So I wouldn't expect much of a change there. You would see more with a lower t-stat at the same time. Then you are asking for more out of your radiator, which might make the water & water wetter, etc help. What if you just run a high % water with coolant? Since you are at warmer temps, but it will still give you some protection from freezing but higher % water for better cooling. My understanding is that the purpose of water wetter is to give pure water anit-corrosion properties, but you get that with some coolant, even 20-30%. I assume your car uses a oil/coolant cooler for oil cooling. You could put an external cooler on in, and sized right that should help a ton. But if you don't put a t-stat on that, it will make your car warm up slower. I honestly don't know/remember what's good/bad for oil temps. You could cool it too much and get out of the efficient operating point for your engine. I'm sure someone has driven these cars on the track, alot, and figured out solutions to issues that are out there. I didn't look into this at all, but it pops up on some quick interweb searching. http://burgertuning.com/sport_oil_cooler_valve.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripleskate Posted January 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Water temps are okay, thats around t-stat temp (205) my main concern is stability/volatility and efficiency. I want make sure it stays closer to the 205 side of things versus higher. Oil temps are too high, and the OE oil cooler isn't doing enough. Id rather temps be closer to 250ish under hard use. Most OTS oils cant handle repeated abuse at 280*+ oil temps. Ran the BMS oil cooler valve, didn't help. Made the car never come up to temp on the street and didn't change peak values at the track. When I installed it, it looked to have reduced the restriction of the oil cooler opening/cavity, but the temp gauge don't lie (often), and it didn't seem to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I ran WW in my GTO for years as a crutch to a poorly designed cooling system. It helped but once the heat soak sinks in it is hard to get it to calm down. Also drag tracks hate it like it is standard coolant (most 1/4 mile tracks want you to run straight water). The best change I made was closing the tolerance between the water pump and the plate to prevent cavitation, switching to a larger radiator (from Harrison 4 core to an alloy 4 core), 160 degree thermostat, Lincoln Mark VII electric fan, and using a smaller wp pulley. Granted you are talking about a BMW and not an old iron and guts carb'ed muscle car but some of the same stuff applies. If you need to reduce by 15 degrees or more then you may need to beef up the systems rather than fine tune with chemicals. I remember listening to Adam Corrolla recently talk about his Paul Newman 300Zx race car and that the car had 3 oil coolers and they had to fine tune cooling to track conditions by blocking them or uncovering them as they raced, maybe you are starting to get into that where you need to increase the oil cooler surface area and the radiator surface area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaSSon Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 If the BMS oil t-stat didn't help you, then you need additional radiators. Upgrade your OEM oil cooler and look into adding the BMW PPK radiators. The OEM oil cooler is quite small, but engineered solutions are expensive. There are DIY solutions, do some googling. Also being in so cal there's no reason for you to go 50/50 on anti freeze. Try 70/30 or even 80/20 Distilled water to BMW Blue antifreeze. I'm not aware of a lower temp coolant system thermostat for our motors. Also make sure you're running an upgraded FMIC, and maybe even meth injection or you'll be pulling timing like crazy. Edit: The oil filter housing is liquid cooled, so the temps of one fluid have a direct impact on the other. Bringing your oil temps down will help with coolant temps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Borgen Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 I've ran Engine Ice in my bike for years now. I can't say for sure if the bike actually runs cooler, but if you spill it on a racetrack they won't get pissed, it's biodegradable so Jesus is happy...plus it looks cool. Same for me in my 748 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
408 on a budget Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 I run straight water and water wetter in the blazer, its always stayed on the warm side. V8 s-trucks dont have a ton of room to begin with, then throw a supercharger in the mix and you could see why mine runs warm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linn1647545492 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 165 degree Thermostat http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E90-335i-N54_3.0L/Engine/Cooling/Thermostat/ES2804271/ Oil Cooler Valve http://burgertuning.com/sport_oil_cooler_valve.html Cowl Filters - Or do the M3 cowl http://burgertuning.com/cowl_filter_covers_bmw_135_335.html Then add water wetter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripleskate Posted January 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 165 degree Thermostat http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E90-335i-N54_3.0L/Engine/Cooling/Thermostat/ES2804271/ Oil Cooler Valve http://burgertuning.com/sport_oil_cooler_valve.html Cowl Filters - Or do the M3 cowl http://burgertuning.com/cowl_filter_covers_bmw_135_335.html Then add water wetter. Thanks for the various advice guys. I have noticed that a lot of people with domestic cars are using 165 or 180* t-stats. Is there any hard info out there on what a general "ideal" water temp is for modern aluminum engines? My short term plan is run mostly distilled water + WW or the like in the OE radiator and take it from there. I need to pull the bumper cover off and see if there is a way to optimize the OE oil cooler as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Thanks for the various advice guys. I have noticed that a lot of people with domestic cars are using 165 or 180* t-stats. Is there any hard info out there on what a general "ideal" water temp is for modern aluminum engines? It's not whether the engine is aluminum or not, but rather whether the emissions equipment is in place. For example my iron block, iron head jeep runs 195-215 degrees (195 t-stat), but the same exact 4.0l without all the emissions equipment runs 160-180. Why? When they first started putting EGR valves on carbed cars they started getting lots of carbon build up at 160-180 because of the unburnt fuel getting returned. Also unburned fuel tends to burn out catalytic converters. Running at a slightly higher temp alleviates a lot of these issues. Or so I have been told for years. fWIW I tired a 160 t-stat in my jeep years ago and fowled an O2 sensor, switched back and never touched it again. Based on how precise modern engine tolerances are, you want to run the temp the factory says you should be running at peak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linn1647545492 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Thanks for the various advice guys. I have noticed that a lot of people with domestic cars are using 165 or 180* t-stats. Is there any hard info out there on what a general "ideal" water temp is for modern aluminum engines? My short term plan is run mostly distilled water + WW or the like in the OE radiator and take it from there. I need to pull the bumper cover off and see if there is a way to optimize the OE oil cooler as well. I have a 160 thermostat in both of my modern cars (Yukon and Camaro) and the BMW will get the 165 since they don't offer a 160. You don't drive in winter so you don't need to worry about heat so 165 is the way to go. I've never had a heat issue with the Yukon in the winter and I wanted to keep the motor cool while towing, so I converted to E fans and did the 160 thermostat. Auto manufacturers run the "modern" motors warmer now for emissions not because they are "modern" motors. I've never had any issues fowling any sensor, this is one of the first thing GM guys do to their car/trucks when they are serious about making power and cooling the motor. If you actually want to see a difference start with a thermostat and then change your cowl. Do you have a Jb4 on your car or a catch can? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudiOn19s Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 FWIW - some modern cars will throw a check engine light if you put a colder thermostat in them. I distinctly remember when trying to do everything to fight high temps with my E46 M3 when I tracked it and I did not do the thermostat because it would cause a CEL. As I understand it now there are tools that you can get around the coding but it's something to consider. Back to the original question, I use water wetter and distilled water in the GT3. Use it primarily as an anti-corrosion component for the cooling system and because if spilled at the track it will clean up easier. GT3 has no temp issues so there was really no benefit to be had there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 I was going to say you need a bigger oil cooler, but I like Linns suggestion more now since it will be probably much less than a new oil cooler, will positively affect, reduce, both coolant and oil temps. Maybe easier to install. I also like that you will still be using your OEM oil cooler at this point, since it's probably been very well tested for durability, mechanical robustness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripleskate Posted January 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 If you actually want to see a difference start with a thermostat and then change your cowl. Do you have a Jb4 on your car or a catch can? Full cowling is already removed. I run a JB4 on the street and bypass it at the track due to temps - the JB4 "turns off" at 280*F oil temps. Have a catch can as well, fortunately, the car doesn't see much blow by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linn1647545492 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Full cowling is already removed. I run a JB4 on the street and bypass it at the track due to temps - the JB4 "turns off" at 280*F oil temps. Have a catch can as well, fortunately, the car doesn't see much blow by. Are you using the "Max Cooling" feature on the JB4? If so does it help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 FWIW - some modern cars will throw a check engine light if you put a colder thermostat in them. I distinctly remember when trying to do everything to fight high temps with my E46 M3 when I tracked it and I did not do the thermostat because it would cause a CEL. As I understand it now there are tools that you can get around the coding but it's something to consider. On audi's it not just throws a CEL but it shuts off the temp gauge. T-stat in the wife's A3 is stuck open and it throws the CEL once a week. Waiting till I have to do timing belt to change it because they buried that sucker deep in the engine. Germans have a strange sense of humor. now back to the bmw question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaSSon Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Max cool spins up the radiator fan and coolant pump to full bore. I'm not sure how much benefit there is on a twisty track where you're always moving, but it's useful in the pits at National Trails. I just looked at my original thermostat housing, it does seem to separate with a few torx bits. It's a bitch to remove from the car tho. The water pump has to be removed to access the thermostat housing, as it's tucked up inside the front cradle. My experience stems from wrenching my my E92, your E82 is likely even tighter. The oil temps are your main issue, deal with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.