Geeesammy Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 Isn't the SC300 the same basic engine as the 2JZ sans turbo? 2700 LB, TH350/400, built 8.8. Sc300 has a 2JZGE, higher compression, different head/cams, water outlet location is different. Higher compression as well and lack oil squirters. Supposedly the crank and rods are the same. If it was me I would pick up a 1JZ (can be had in longblock form minus trans for $1,000). Then sell the harness and ecu for $150-$200. Get a good standalone, PTE 6766 and a single manifold and some big injectors with a -8 rail and boost the hell out of it. Twin scroll housing would be boobs for that setup. Hell you could even pull a 2JZGE out of a junkyard SC300 or GS300 and get a Front facing intake mani and turbo manifold and either run lower boost or a thicker HKS HG and it would put down some serious numbers on a 6766 and it would spool quick.. Mating a Th trans to a JZ engine is NOT cheap. An option for an auto would be the stock A340E but not sure how much power those hold. Otherwise the manual options are the W58(NA Mk3 Supra's) LOL, R154(Turbo Mk3 Supra's) which in stock form can hold 450-ish, building them isn't cheap, or a V160/161 which comes in the factory TT Mk4's which is not cheap. Most ad's I see anymore ask upwards of $3,000 for a stock trans. They are supposedly damn near indestructible in stock form though..Clutches are pricey though, as with everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fubar231 Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 Why not just focus on your turbo SBC? For the price of swapping another motor and getting it to the power goals you want, you could easily do it with your SBC. Hell, you could build a new pretty trick setup for the price of everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltboostin Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Click on any of coltboostin's threads Ha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC K9 Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 I would go 4g myself. The rule of thumb I always hear with them is the stock internals are good to 600 before things start going bad. With rods and forged pistons you could go further, and they handle boost very well. I call BS. Can 500whp be made with stock blocks? Sure. Is the stock block going to last at that power level? No. That's one of the issues I have with everyone on dsmtuners telling newbs they can make 500whp with a stock block. How many people out there are making 500whp on a stock block and putting legit miles on the car? Every stock block making 500+ I have seen has been pretty much a race car. Not something with 100mi weekend cruises every weekend and being used to run errands during the week. I am sure it is perhaps possible to be done by a select few, but that would be the exception, not the rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeesammy Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 everyone on dsmtuners telling newbs they can make 500whp with a stock block. stock internals are good to 600 before things start going bad. :lolguy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Bastard Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 I call BS. Can 500whp be made with stock blocks? Sure. Is the stock block going to last at that power level? No. That's one of the issues I have with everyone on dsmtuners telling newbs they can make 500whp with a stock block. How many people out there are making 500whp on a stock block and putting legit miles on the car? Every stock block making 500+ I have seen has been pretty much a race car. Not something with 100mi weekend cruises every weekend and being used to run errands during the week. I am sure it is perhaps possible to be done by a select few, but that would be the exception, not the rule. Isn't op asking about what engine to use for a racecar? Besides I said that this is what I have heard (which, Grant, you left that out when quoting me), I was not stating it as a fact. However you said you should be putting down about that range on you're car? I guess we can wait and see how it holds up. Fwiw, my motor for my car is getting forged internals, this will not be such an issue for me (more worried about the trans and rear end holding up). JP, care to weigh in on this? I know you have done some budget 4g builds in the past, maybe you have some insight you can provide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirks5oh Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Zr1 2015 z06 vette '13-14 gt500 Hellcat anything All these are 650+ right from the factory. In terms of being easy, it doesn't get any easier than buying the car and having a full warranty and 650hp. You don't have to do shit. Put the key in, turn it, and drive. Seems like an easy question. Am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltboostin Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Isn't op asking about what engine to use for a racecar? Besides I said that this is what I have heard (which, Grant, you left that out when quoting me), I was not stating it as a fact. However you said you should be putting down about that range on you're car? I guess we can wait and see how it holds up. Fwiw, my motor for my car is getting forged internals, this will not be such an issue for me (more worried about the trans and rear end holding up). JP, care to weigh in on this? I know you have done some budget 4g builds in the past, maybe you have some insight you can provide. He is looking for "reliable" 650 crank HP. Why thats the number? IDK. Figure through a FWD DSM trans that 550-580whp, IMO that's a bit much to consider reliable. Also, with a 3 or 4 speed RWD trans with a lot of converter it will be a dog out of the hole unless you spray it, or use a smaller turbo to make big torque down low-both of which would severely increase the likelyhood of bending or breaking a stock rod. Can it be done? Sure. Would it blow up within a year of real drag racing ? Likley. Would a simple drop in rod/piston combo fix this? Yes, but IMO the LS is still a better fit for a RWD Auto drag car. Was the OP's goal basically impossible to ascertain with the title of the thread-guaranteeing a train wreck of BS opinions most of which will have no bearing on what (who knows what really) he is looking for? FUCK YES. 'Merica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10phone2 Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 2rz + R154 or AR5 solstice trans. Strong motor and a decent trans that wont break the bank and doesnt need any bellhousing adapters to make it work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC K9 Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Isn't op asking about what engine to use for a racecar? Besides I said that this is what I have heard (which, Grant, you left that out when quoting me), I was not stating it as a fact. However you said you should be putting down about that range on you're car? I guess we can wait and see how it holds up. Fwiw, my motor for my car is getting forged internals, this will not be such an issue for me (more worried about the trans and rear end holding up). JP, care to weigh in on this? I know you have done some budget 4g builds in the past, maybe you have some insight you can provide. It wasn't an attack on you. I was elaborating on what you heard with actual fact so the OP doesn't have to go on hearsay. As for what I'm putting down with my car...it's not on a stock block, so how long my current motor lasts would have no bearing on your previous statement on what stock 4g blocks can "handle." Same goes for previous motor. It lasted 3yrs between 25-35psi on a big turbo before breaking a wrist pin on eagle/ross combo. That was the motor I was trapping 130+ with. I know of several stock blocks that have let go at less than 500hp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontiacfreak142 Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 3800 Series II is plenty reliable at 650HP and I don't think much more expensive than any other engine to get there (cheaper than many imports probably). I've personally built two that did it on a stock L67 bottom end with 100K+ -- one supercharged and one turbocharged -- plus worked with tons of others that did way more with wilder setups. If you're keeping it in a FWD car, holding the power is what's expensive. I don't recommend it. How did you make that much with the blower? cant say ive ever seen one make nearly that. On another note, i may happen to have a good running 3800 s2 for sale as well as a 4l60e with a 3500 stall. Perfect starting point lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excell Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 How did you make that much with the blower? cant say ive ever seen one make nearly that. I've been around a while. My setup was with an MP112 instead of the stock M90. We had two other cars like it in our group, all made comparable power but the other two had more disposable income than I did and had built bottom ends. Attached a pic. However, I know many folks doing 600+HP with ported M90's/intercooler/heads/cam/headers/LS1 throttle body/etc. Remember, we're talking engine HP here, not wheel. The qualification was cheap and stock bottom end -- 3800 Series II parts can be found really cheap now and all are bolt-ons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontiacfreak142 Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 I've been around a while. My setup was with an MP112 instead of the stock M90. We had two other cars like it in our group, all made comparable power but the other two had more disposable income than I did and had built bottom ends. Attached a pic. However, I know many folks doing 600+HP with ported M90's/intercooler/heads/cam/headers/LS1 throttle body/etc. Remember, we're talking engine HP here, not wheel. The qualification was cheap and stock bottom end -- 3800 Series II parts can be found really cheap now and all are bolt-ons. Ah ok, that makes sense lol. Yea ive never really seen someone build one up like that, but i figured they wouldnt make much over 500 or so on stock blowers. Very impressive though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excell Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 P.S. I later demodded that setup to a stock blower/mild cam/pulley/headers/etc. and made 314 wheel horsepower. With the same stock block at 130k. Last I heard I heard it was still running with over 200k miles. When I was racing that bastard I beat it like it owed me money. Remarkable engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontiacfreak142 Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 P.S. I later demodded that setup to a stock blower/mild cam/pulley/headers/etc. and made 314 wheel horsepower. With the same stock block at 130k. Last I heard I heard it was still running with over 200k miles. When I was racing that bastard I beat it like it owed me money. Remarkable engines. Nice. Yea im gonna miss mine as im sure my new setup wont last nearly as long as this one has. ive been bracket racing the car with this engine for 7 years strait making at least 3 passess every week. Never had to touch it other than to change the oil once a year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Bastard Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 It wasn't an attack on you. I was elaborating on what you heard with actual fact so the OP doesn't have to go on hearsay. As for what I'm putting down with my car...it's not on a stock block, so how long my current motor lasts would have no bearing on your previous statement on what stock 4g blocks can "handle." Same goes for previous motor. It lasted 3yrs between 25-35psi on a big turbo before breaking a wrist pin on eagle/ross combo. That was the motor I was trapping 130+ with. I know of several stock blocks that have let go at less than 500hp. No worries, I was just trying to clarify what I was saying a little. As for your motor, idk why but I was thinking it was a stock bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC K9 Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 No worries, I was just trying to clarify what I was saying a little. As for your motor, idk why but I was thinking it was a stock bottom. I am not brave enough to try to push these stock blocks hard enough to be where I want to be power wise. There are some fast stock blocked DSM's out there though, so i'm not saying it can't be done; I just don't think it's done as often as some people try to make other's believe. Here is a guy that's been pushing his stock block and ebay turbo pretty hard these last few weeks, (if indeed he is being truthful about the bottom end being stock). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaSSon Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 BMW N54 335i. Stock engine, stock turbos with a FMIC, tune, DPs, meth/e85 will net you 400-450whp. Stock frame upgraded turbos can get you to ~550whp. Stock engine with big single upgrade cars have dynoed between 700-800whp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpfiend Posted February 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Thanks for all of your responses- Reason for the 650 hp is that I need about 550 at the rear wheels to run 10 flats in the quarter with my 2700 lb gremlin. Maybe a bit less will actually be needed but I can always bleed off the boost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstmg8 Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Thanks for all of your responses- Reason for the 650 hp is that I need about 550 at the rear wheels to run 10 flats in the quarter with my 2700 lb gremlin. Maybe a bit less will actually be needed but I can always bleed off the boost. Depends on tranny/drive line right? What is the general loss, like 18%? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltboostin Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Reason for the 650 hp is that I need about 550 at the rear wheels to run 10 flats in the quarter with my 2700 lb gremlin. Maybe a bit less will actually be needed but I can always bleed off the boost. I don't agree with that. In a RWD car, Auto, even off a foot brake a proper 500whp should get you there at that weight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpfiend Posted February 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Haha i should have put for ME to get flat 10s. In two different cars I would need the same number - 250 rwhp 14.0 in 3700 lb car- 13.0 corrected for 2700 lbs. 350 rwhp 12.3 in 3000 lb car 12.0 corrected for 2700 lbs. Either of those cars would have needed 550 to the tire for me to get a 10 flat. It wasn't for lack of trying either hehe i put about 50-75 passes on both. We won't even talk about the corvette!! Granted those were all manual transmission cars but I had slicks or cheater slicks on all but the Vette. I am not abusive enough or coordinated enough or something to match these internet crazies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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