Orion Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 If I could remove my conscience from my body, put it somewhere safe so that it would never know what I did while it was out of me, I STILL couldn't bring myself to vote for Kasich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 I can't say I agree with everything Rand does, but his message is constant and he won't change his tune if he gets into office. He also has the best chance of pulling some left votes. Rand 16 best chance of pulling some left votes? really? with the stance on education and discrimination and his tea party affiliations? compared to the normal republican stance on crime of "bring back the noose as a legit form of execution, and let us pull the handle twice on the electric chair just to make sure" he seems progressive in that issue but he is so far out there everywhere else I am not sure even moderate republicans consider him a contender. I mean eliminating the dept of education and pushing it to the local community? Jesus riding a dinosaur text books here I come!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Mart Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 best chance of pulling some left votes? really? with the stance on education and discrimination and his tea party affiliations? compared to the normal republican stance on crime of "bring back the noose as a legit form of execution, and let us pull the handle twice on the electric chair just to make sure" he seems progressive in that issue but he is so far out there everywhere else I am not sure even moderate republicans consider him a contender. I mean eliminating the dept of education and pushing it to the local community? Jesus riding a dinosaur text books here I come!!!! Out of the pack, who else (Trump not included) isn't the same old Republican we have seen for decades? Sure Rand has a Tea Party affiliation, but he will be able to destroy whoever he debates. On the cover his ideas on small government may not speak to your typical democrat, but he doesn't talk feeling he talks facts. He will pull the right like every other R, but will also pull a lot of independents who are tired of the same old D/R candidate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHIEF Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I like Kasich and I like Trumps up front attitude toward some real world problems. Wish they could combine into one man. All the candidates suck. I'll go Trump if Kasich doesn't get the nod. Career politicians have gotten us this far so why not change it up? Although thought it was funny when someone said something about Trump shouldn't be dealing with Iran. He's the exact person that needed to be sent over there. All our politicians did is fuck us, and the rest of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patterson Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I like the fire Trump brings, he is saying what a lot of the country is feeling. Having grown up around the corner from Kasich, he is my realistic favorite. Carson and Whats her face should stop now. Four years of radio ads for Carson have done nothing for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) Out of the pack, who else (Trump not included) isn't the same old Republican we have seen for decades? Sure Rand has a Tea Party affiliation, but he will be able to destroy whoever he debates. On the cover his ideas on small government may not speak to your typical democrat, but he doesn't talk feeling he talks facts. He will pull the right like every other R, but will also pull a lot of independents who are tired of the same old D/R candidate. The only issues he "isn't the same old republican" on are education, marijuana laws, and crime. His education ideas are way the heck out there and not at all appealing to anybody who values secular education, and his stance on crime is fairly progressive from a prisoner's rights point of view. But the small government? Yeah everyone on the GOP right now has a position on that and his is slightly more right than most. His thoughts on civil rights are honestly deplorable, its hard to back a candidate who is in favor of discrimination in the private sector (except when it comes to religion, but race and gender are ok) in any form. I don't even want to discuss his position on vaccines because it's just straight dumb. I do agree he is probably the most articulate prepared candidate of any of the right of the asile ones right now and it helps that there aren't a lot of clips of him saying anything really dumb and unrelated to the issues, but I just think he's too extreme to pull any center or left leaning independents. I could easily see him pulling the registered independents who think the GOP doesn't go far enough and are the big corp conservative machine but that's about it. Anybody have thoughts on Christie? Part of me wants to pull for him because of his willingness to be bi-partisan, his socially mainstream but financially conservative positions, and his joe Pesci like attitude. The problem I have is that I worry he brings the Boss tweed and Tammany hall style of politics to the federal level (for the non-new Yorkers that means corruption and favoritism). If anybody was going to pull east coast based independents however, it would be him. NY/NJ republican politicians haven done well in the GOP at the federal level lately, too socially liberal. Still, prefer him to more than half the Field. Edited August 18, 2015 by Geeto67 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmrmnhrm Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Anybody have thoughts on Christie? Part of me wants to pull for him because of his willingness to be bi-partisan, his socially mainstream but financially conservative positions, and his joe Pesci like attitude. The problem I have is that I worry he brings the Boss tweed and Tammany hall style of politics to the federal level (for the non-new Yorkers that means corruption and favoritism). This is exactly why I won't vote for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Mart Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 The only issues he "isn't the same old republican" on are education, marijuana laws, and crime. His education ideas are way the heck out there and not at all appealing to anybody who values secular education, and his stance on crime is fairly progressive from a prisoner's rights point of view. But the small government? Yeah everyone on the GOP right now has a position on that and his is slightly more right than most. His thoughts on civil rights are honestly deplorable, its hard to back a candidate who is in favor of discrimination in the private sector (except when it comes to religion, but race and gender are ok) in any form. I don't even want to discuss his position on vaccines because it's just straight dumb. I do agree he is probably the most articulate prepared candidate of any of the right of the asile ones right now and it helps that there aren't a lot of clips of him saying anything really dumb and unrelated to the issues, but I just think he's too extreme to pull any center or left leaning independents. I could easily see him pulling the registered independents who think the GOP doesn't go far enough and are the big corp conservative machine but that's about it. Anybody have thoughts on Christie? Part of me wants to pull for him because of his willingness to be bi-partisan, his socially mainstream but financially conservative positions, and his joe Pesci like attitude. The problem I have is that I worry he brings the Boss tweed and Tammany hall style of politics to the federal level (for the non-new Yorkers that means corruption and favoritism). If anybody was going to pull east coast based independents however, it would be him. NY/NJ republican politicians haven done well in the GOP at the federal level lately, too socially liberal. Still, prefer him to more than half the Field. Education - Our system is broken. National education does not seem to be the answer rather locally run 'charter' type schools that put the responsibility of outcomes in the hands of the community it affects. We continue to throw money at the problem and the problem continues to grow. Radical? Sure, but there are plenty of cases of charter schools in terrible areas out performing high cost private schools in upper class areas. Marijuana - I could care less. Frankly, I don't think it should be legal until we find a way to objectively test for it like we do alcohol. Small Govt - He is more extreme than most. Abolish IRS with a flat tax, his stance on the NSA, getting government out of the marriage business, basically he wants to audit and review every federal agency to see if they are needed. Sure small govt is a buzz term right now, but nobody wants to tackle it like Rand. Vaccines - Agree with you on that one. Civil Rights - This is news to me. What private sector discrimination are you talking about? Are we having a political discussion on CR without name calling and physical threats? Twilight zone type stuff here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmrmnhrm Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Are we having a political discussion on CR without name calling and physical threats? Twilight zone type stuff here. Yes. I find the lack of kitchen-esque flames disturbing. Of course, the fact that Obama isn't really part of the equation, and Joe Biden hasn't made any appreciable noise, probably helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o0n8 Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Yes. I find the lack of kitchen-esque flames disturbing. Of course, the fact that Obama isn't really part of the equation, and Joe Biden hasn't made any appreciable noise, probably helps. Thanks Obama? Joe Biden is just a no. And I don't think he will run unless Hillary starts looking really bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I mean if we vote our interests Joe Biden is the most car guy of all the modern politicians, too bad he isn't running. Probably because he knows better. http://static01.nyt.com/images/2010/11/11/business/media/11biden-span/11biden-span-articleLarge.jpg (yes I know this is parody) He would get my vote just so I could see him change the license plate on this to "The Pres" http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/joe-biden-s-new-chevy-corvette-stingray-could-this-be-it-80434-7.jpg Just to point out....historically democratic presidents tend to be more "car guys" than their GOP counterparts. Truman famously took his 1953 New Yorker on an epic road trip right after he left office. Lyndon Johnson had an Amphicar and a Fiat Jolly.Franklin Roosevelt special ordered a 1939 Packard v-12 even though he couldn't drive because he thought it was the end all be all of cars, he also liked to be driven in Al Capone's armored cadillac as it was in gov't custody at the time. Bill Clinton owns (owned?) a 1967 mustang convertible and I remember him being the guest of honor one year at indy for one of the big mustang national shows in 1992. Kennedy ordered 2 dozen thunderbirds from ford during his presidency (most were used in his inauguration parade). Famously Reagan had Subaru Brats on his ranch, which is odd given the UAW issues that happened during his presidency. anyway, back to bitching about how there is nobody to vote for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supplicium Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 anybody but Hillary. Trump or Kasich will get my vote if they make it that far. Republicans need to get in but these candidates are just not going to make it. Sell the hope and bullshit to the sheeple like the demos then make real changes when in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Can someone in the ABC camp articulate exactly why they don't like her? I mean beyond the usual buzz words about liberals, etc....is there a specific common platforms most are objecting to? or is it she's the head liberal and death to all liberals? I am an independent voter with a 50/50 voting record of GOP and Democrat, I really want to like her but my caveats are: - financial reform and regulation tends to suffer under the Clinton administration. Very pro-deregulation for a democrat. Most of the chipping away at bankruptcy rights for consumers happened under Bill and Hilary has continued to do so in her various offices. - The reason why student loans are in the mess they are in can be traced back to Bill's term as president which is why I find her platform to improve education spending is either fixing their mistake or hypocritical, and also underdeveloped. - more of the same on social security is not a solution, and it's getting to the point where you can't pass the buck to the next president. - Still pushing the old healthcare reform that failed in the 1990s. may hurt the public via trying to retool the affordable care act to meet her well worn agendas. I know there are some that think she is representative of dynasty building in politics but Jeb Bush is also representative of that in the GOP, and you really can't escape it. I am more looking for those that think Clinton isn't a good fit because of her position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmrmnhrm Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Can someone in the ABC camp articulate exactly why they don't like her? I mean beyond the usual buzz words about liberals, etc....is there a specific common platforms most are objecting to? or is it she's the head liberal and death to all liberals? My problem with Hillary (and, let's be honest, just about all the candidates present) is the question of integrity. None of them have it, whether it's Clinton's evasion on Benghazi and her email, Christie's good ol' boy cronyism, or that thing on Trump's head that he refuses to identify. About the only one whose integrity I don't question outright is Paul, but I'm just not sold on his policies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Civil Rights - This is news to me. What private sector discrimination are you talking about? Rand has stated that he believes that business owners should be able to deny service to someone due to their race Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Mart Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Rand has stated that he believes that business owners should be able to deny service to someone due to their race "I don't like the idea of telling private business owners -- I abhor racism. I think it's a bad business decision to exclude anybody from your restaurant -- but, at the same time, I do believe in private ownership. But I absolutely think there should be no discrimination in anything that gets any public funding, and that's most of what I think the Civil Rights Act was about in my mind." This is an article I found that I believe you are referring to. I see how this comes off, but in the same article he says he abhors racism. In theory he is correct, especially with how quick information travels now-days (social media). If I found out my favorite steakhouse didn't serve XYZ race I would no longer support them, many others would follow suit and they would go out of business. I believe this to be more of an idealistic personal freedom philosophy than him wanting certain races to be discriminated against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 "I don't like the idea of telling private business owners -- I abhor racism. I think it's a bad business decision to exclude anybody from your restaurant -- but, at the same time, I do believe in private ownership. But I absolutely think there should be no discrimination in anything that gets any public funding, and that's most of what I think the Civil Rights Act was about in my mind." This is an article I found that I believe you are referring to. I see how this comes off, but in the same article he says he abhors racism. In theory he is correct, especially with how quick information travels now-days (social media). If I found out my favorite steakhouse didn't serve XYZ race I would no longer support them, many others would follow suit and they would go out of business. I believe this to be more of an idealistic personal freedom philosophy than him wanting certain races to be discriminated against. If he abhors racism then why make it easier to proliferate? Also racism isn't the only type of discrimination. I understand "idealism" but it runs contrary to over 150 years of civil rights activity and interpretation in the US. the esp concerning portion is that the only private discrimination he has consistently been opposed is that of religion - which is odd in and of itself. This isn't a new position of his, publicly you can trace his comments on discrimination back to 1981 - I think over time it has just refined into a more palatable political platform. I get that he want's private freedom but this is one area in which he should not hang his hat. Given the lengths private enterprise has gone through to discriminate historically I don't think this is a problem that can be solved by social media. This isn't just a right to refuse service issue, this is an employment issue, it extends to real estate, and even privatized industry that performs government functions. If you look at his "freedom" philosophy it boils down to "people should have the freedom to make bad decisions that hurt others". Mis-informed parents should be able to choose not to vaccinate their kids...despite that vaccinations are why hardly anybody suffers from polio anymore. private business should be able to hire only WASP males....despite the fact that employment reform has put a significant dent in unemployment being drawn along racial or gender lines. The problem I have with his ideology about "freedom" is that it doesn't value the cost at all. In order to enable equality there has to be some boundaries - removing the boundaries seriously underrates the nasty side of human nature and only generates a false "equality". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiek2000 Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Although I haven't followed the candidates much, doing some reading based on where they choices stand on big issues, seems Huckabee would probably be my choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirks5oh Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 all the candidates this time around suck so far, plain and simple. i consider myself a conservative republican, but i hate politics---i hate discussing it, hate politicians in general---they lie, have their own agendas, and haven't done shit for this country in the past several presidencies. the president should be better, to quote CR. think of all the qualities that make up an amazing leader---and ask yourself in such a vast, amazing, advanced country that we enjoy living in---how the fuck can we not find a better leader than the group of misfits running at this time?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Mart Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 If he abhors racism then why make it easier to proliferate? Also racism isn't the only type of discrimination. I understand "idealism" but it runs contrary to over 150 years of civil rights activity and interpretation in the US. the esp concerning portion is that the only private discrimination he has consistently been opposed is that of religion - which is odd in and of itself. This isn't a new position of his, publicly you can trace his comments on discrimination back to 1981 - I think over time it has just refined into a more palatable political platform. I get that he want's private freedom but this is one area in which he should not hang his hat. Given the lengths private enterprise has gone through to discriminate historically I don't think this is a problem that can be solved by social media. This isn't just a right to refuse service issue, this is an employment issue, it extends to real estate, and even privatized industry that performs government functions. If you look at his "freedom" philosophy it boils down to "people should have the freedom to make bad decisions that hurt others". Mis-informed parents should be able to choose not to vaccinate their kids...despite that vaccinations are why hardly anybody suffers from polio anymore. private business should be able to hire only WASP males....despite the fact that employment reform has put a significant dent in unemployment being drawn along racial or gender lines. The problem I have with his ideology about "freedom" is that it doesn't value the cost at all. In order to enable equality there has to be some boundaries - removing the boundaries seriously underrates the nasty side of human nature and only generates a false "equality". Rand and a lot of Libertarians have foundational beliefs not personal opinions. That is why it is hard for the mainstream to understand them without a lot of screen time(the debates I mentioned before). It is easy to say we should not discriminate against anyone, and also the way I live my life for the record. It is harder, however, to say that anyone should be allowed to do anything that does not hurt others and to let the market decide in the private sector. I do not believe Rand is racist in any way and to say that he has constructed this platform as a way to refuse service to a class of people is your opinion. I would argue it with the fact that he is in Haiti performing pro bono eye surgeries to the poor, something he has been doing for decades. Your vaccine topic is, again, a good point. There are children who cannot get vaccines (some types of childhood cancer) and when parents do not vaccine they put those kids at risk. I get that and agree with you. Employment... Any company, private or public, should have incentives to hire the best person for the job. In the private sector it is life or death for the company. If my competition only hired WASPs I would be able to blow them out of the water with a better pool of candidates. I hate race driven decisions, especially in places like police and fire fighters. I want the best/smartest/strongest person to save me from a fire not someone who fits that areas demographics. This is what it comes down to for me: Do I agree with the 'you should be able to serve whoever you want' in theory? Sure. Is it on my top 100 priority list of what we need to fix? Not even close. Shutting down the IRS with a flat tax, getting on the right side of the Laffer Curve by cutting taxes, promoting innovation by dropping regulations and bureaucracy ultimately bringing good jobs to Americans, incentivizing US companies to stop dumping money off shore, stopping wealth redistribution, and fixing immigration are what I care about, and ultimately will decide my vote. And for the continuation of vigorous debate - cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o0n8 Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Although I haven't followed the candidates much, doing some reading based on where they choices stand on big issues, seems Huckabee would probably be my choice. The guy who said the Iran deal is marching Israel into the oven? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiek2000 Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 The guy who said the Iran deal is marching Israel into the oven? Like I said, I haven't kept 100% up with the issues. But iran/israel isn't high on my priority list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 http://www.isidewith.com/ I encourage you to take the test. Some of you may be surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiek2000 Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 http://www.isidewith.com/ I encourage you to take the test. Some of you may be surprised. Rubio and Huckabee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littleguy Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 http://www.isidewith.com/ I encourage you to take the test. Some of you may be surprised. Interesting test. I was Clinton, Sanders, O'Malley, Paul, Bush, Trump. Surprisingly Paul was 67% in agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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