Otis Nice Posted September 26, 2015 Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 SR9c is by far my fav compact to shoot, especially with the 17 round mag. Also, for a carry gun, don't rely on the sights so much. Never made sense to me why the average person pays for night sights and such. Like putting a spoiler on a civic to try and look cool. In a defensive situation the sights won't matter. Practice instinctive firing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds Posted September 26, 2015 Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 I tried to use my sights as best I could when I took a combat pistol class. I do understand when you are coming from the "look down the slide at your target" standpoint. I've not trained in the dark... But I assume I'd rather have night sights than not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radio Flyer1647545514 Posted September 26, 2015 Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 I just quit putting night sights on my guns and went black front black rears and it'd a huge improvement IMHO. If you have a light you'll be able to find your sights with it on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds Posted September 26, 2015 Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 Good point^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hwilli1647545487 Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 I've done both competitive and tactical low light shooting. I have found night sites helpful, but not necessary. What they do is make a nice marker when grabbing your gun out of the drawer when it's dark. I run Glocks and the first thing that goes is the plastic junk sites. Since I'm swapping them i always do night sites since they are off. Randy I'll have to respectfully disagree with you on instinctive shooting. Train to use your sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Nice Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 Randy I'll have to respectfully disagree with you on instinctive shooting. Train to use your sites. It's all good. Everyone has their own techniques/opinions. I always used my sights in SD scenario "training" until I actually took an advanced course and realized that if someone is charging me it's nearly impossible to draw and get a good sight picture in time. We were shown "aiming with your thumbs" and I could hit center mass 10/10 times. If I have time, yes, sight pic. I just don't want to ONLY train for that or expect that option to be there. Plus, in the dark, instinctive makes much more sense to me. If you train to aim with your thumbs until it becomes natural you're more likely to be able to hit center mass at 3:30 in the morning in the dark when you're woken out of a dead sleep and groggy while your glasses are on the night stand. That's my situation. Dark. Live in the middle of the woods with nobody around. Have imperfect eye sight. Screw trying to get a sight pic in the dark on a moving target while half asleep without corrective lenses. I want to be as quick and accurate as possible. From holster or night stand I'm not James Bond or a Navy SEAL and I'm not walking around in the dark looking just down my sights unable to see what's going on around me. I instruct others to be ware of their surroundings and as for me personally I find that difficult while staring down a slide. Just me though. YMMV, and that's ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 The "no sights thing" just reminds me of the recent story of the cop that fired something like 60 shots in a gunfight where he said "I didn't get a single hit until I remembered to use my sights and breath" ... And then he got something like 4-5 hits. But as I stated earlier, I am guilty of drawing, looking straight/linear down the barrel, and at least taking the first one/two shots while I'm "getting to the sights". Still hit the preferred area though! I guess the point of so many replies to Randy's comment makes me think of this... "I'd rather have regular sights than night sights on my carry gun" - No one Ever I do buy into the "it's dark, I'm still waking up, can't see straight" thing... But again, as I've been taught... If you hear an intruder in your house you shouldn't go downstairs and look for them. You grab the gun, the fam, and huddle up in the safest place possible while you call the police. And then another point that was driven home to me was... "Get a flashlight" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 Just about every competition shooter will tell you that they're just as fast at acquiring a sight picture and shooting as they are with just pointing and shooting. Practice with your sights and use them. Or don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radio Flyer1647545514 Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 I was all gung ho about night sights until I started looking at a quality set of BUIS for my AR. It seems like almost everyone is running black on black and not spending the extra 100 for tritium in them. The topic came up that you should always identify your target before firing in a LEO/self defense situation. To do that, you need a light. Well, I didn't figure a light mounted in front of my sights would make my sights visible so it was time to test it out. Turned off all lights, put my flashlight on it's lowest setting and flipped it on. I used the lowest setting to make sure it worked just in case my battery was running low. On my light my highest setting will drain a battery in less than an hour, when that happens it drops it to setting 1. What do you know, sights are clear as day and super easy to acquire with the least amount of lumens my light provides. Since I've shot these competitions and it's the most "stress" I've been under when shooting, I can say I don't think I need my sights for any "typical" self defense distance. I would say anything inside of 8 feet I'm point to shoot. Anything outside of 10ft I start to pay more attention to my sights. I still always practice using my sights, draw and don't fire til I find my sights. The more I draw and practice finding my sights the more intuitive it is to have them lined up perfectly from the draw and over time I'll be able to feel comfortable to draw, point and shoot when necessary and know everything is lined up how it should be. I can say one of the best drills shown to me for self defense is draw and fire from the stomach/ hip area. There is no chance to use your sights in this scenario and it's a good drill to practice so you have muscle memory not to sweep yourself for keep a hand or arm out in front of your pistol. I do this with the target 4ft or closer. I'd take night sights over factory sights if the gun came with them. If I was spending money on upgrading my sights, dawson precision black front black rears. I do still want to try a green FO front with black rears for competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 Just about every competition shooter will tell you that they're just as fast at acquiring a sight picture and shooting as they are with just pointing and shooting. Practice with your sights and use them. Or don't. I get your point. I (maybe idiotically) assumed we were talking about self defense (in-home-at-night) setups. I have the opinion (in that scenario) that it might help if it was "all the same". And, Ryan... You bring up a good point. I think I was handling it differently in the class I took depending on how far away the target was from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 I get your point. I (maybe idiotically) assumed we were talking about self defense (in-home-at-night) setups. I have the opinion (in that scenario) that it might help if it was "all the same". And, Ryan... You bring up a good point. I think I was handling it differently in the class I took depending on how far away the target was from me. I was just making a general statement. My personal philosophy for a defensive gun at night is one with a light mounted on it. Night sights are useless IMO if you can't see your target. The silhouette of standard sights with a light is superior IMO. I do, however, prefer a fiber front sight. Just personal preference. Carry what you're comfortable with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 Just for shits and giggles, here is Taran Butler and Bob Vogel going at it. Taran shoots instinct. Bob uses sights. Both are Grand Master class shooters; closer to cyborg than humans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Nice Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 "I'd rather have regular sights than night sights on my carry gun" - No one Ever Neat. Just about every competition shooter will tell you that they're just as fast at acquiring a sight picture and shooting as they are with just pointing and shooting. As stated, I'm not competition shooter. Neither are most of the, um, "experts" here. I was all gung ho about night sights until I started looking at a quality set of BUIS for my AR. It seems like almost everyone is running black on black and not spending the extra 100 for tritium in them. The topic came up that you should always identify your target before firing in a LEO/self defense situation. To do that, you need a light. Well, I didn't figure a light mounted in front of my sights would make my sights visible so it was time to test it out. Turned off all lights, put my flashlight on it's lowest setting and flipped it on. I used the lowest setting to make sure it worked just in case my battery was running low. On my light my highest setting will drain a battery in less than an hour, when that happens it drops it to setting 1. What do you know, sights are clear as day and super easy to acquire with the least amount of lumens my light provides. Since I've shot these competitions and it's the most "stress" I've been under when shooting, I can say I don't think I need my sights for any "typical" self defense distance. I would say anything inside of 8 feet I'm point to shoot. Anything outside of 10ft I start to pay more attention to my sights. I still always practice using my sights, draw and don't fire til I find my sights. The more I draw and practice finding my sights the more intuitive it is to have them lined up perfectly from the draw and over time I'll be able to feel comfortable to draw, point and shoot when necessary and know everything is lined up how it should be. I can say one of the best drills shown to me for self defense is draw and fire from the stomach/ hip area. There is no chance to use your sights in this scenario and it's a good drill to practice so you have muscle memory not to sweep yourself for keep a hand or arm out in front of your pistol. I do this with the target 4ft or closer. I'd take night sights over factory sights if the gun came with them. If I was spending money on upgrading my sights, dawson precision black front black rears. I do still want to try a green FO front with black rears for competition. Gets it. I was just making a general statement. My personal philosophy for a defensive gun at night is one with a light mounted on it. Night sights are useless IMO if you can't see your target. The silhouette of standard sights with a light is superior IMO. I do, however, prefer a fiber front sight. Just personal preference. Carry what you're comfortable with. Also gets it. Meh. Maybe I'm wrong. Seems like it. I'm not looking for a Glock fanboy super duper tacticool setup that means precisely squat IRL. Night sights or not, do what you all want. Everyone has their own preferences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jelloman4571647545499 Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 Just for shits and giggles, here is Taran Butler and Bob Vogel going at it. Taran shoots instinct. Bob uses sights. Both are Grand Master class shooters; closer to cyborg than humans. I trained with Bob multiple times over the years when I was shooting IDPA, USPSA and 3 Gun and he is by far the best teacher I could recommend for anyone who wants to learn pistol or get into competition shooting. He knows the LEO side as well therefore he can give ACTUAL experience and not something he heard, read or watched. I ran against him on a dueling tree and he promptly hurt my ego with a .60 first shot from draw. He then proceed to hit 4 out of 5 on a 12"x12" Plate at 200 yards with his Glock. Great man to learn from because he could run you through 50 scenarios about proper sight utilization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radio Flyer1647545514 Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 200 yards is wild with the glock. I'm good for 1/10 at 150 yards on a 12"x8" silhoutte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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