John Wick - SPOILER ALERT FOR ELI. WATCH OUT, ELI...SPOILERS INSIDE!1!!1

[Mensan]

Movie has been on DVD for almost a year now, yet you expect every one else to be sensitive to your viewing habits and lack of common sense. Since "spoilers" are an equally objective thing how about you just not click on the link discussing the movie you want to see until you have seen it. I mean it's not rocket science here, that way the rest of us can have a good discussion and your precious viewing habits remain intact.

 

The more you post, the more I want to put stickers on my car for Asperger's awareness.

[Geeto67]

The more you post, the more I want to put stickers on my car for Asperger's awareness.

 

People should know about your illness so sticker the thing up.

[Orion]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_pot_calling_the_kettle_black

 

I know what the fuck you meant. Don't do it again, Nedry.

[Geeto67]

I know what the fuck you meant. Don't do it again, Nedry.

 

or what?

 

I think you are trying to find offense for something that is not there.

[Mr. Jones]

Fresh from the Geeto spycam:

 

http://i.imgur.com/geNUUMB.gif

[Mensan]

I know what the fuck you meant. Don't do it again, Nedry.

 

He posted some racist shit on other forums too. I wouldn't be surprised if he were banned soon, possibly over this. I reported his post.

[Orion]

or what?

 

I think you are trying to find offense for something that is not there.

 

Damn near everything you say is offensive to someone intelligent and cultured, Newman.

[Geeto67]

He posted some racist shit on other forums too. I wouldn't be surprised if he were banned soon, possibly over this. I reported his post.

 

racist? hardly. and I see you are back to internet stalking again. Good for you. Coping with the divorce that well are you?

[Geeto67]

Damn near everything you say is offensive to someone intelligent and cultured, Newman.

 

there are intelligent and cultured people on this site? that I would love to see.

 

actually, you were one of the people when I first joined that I liked a lot of what you said and was disappointed at how much shit you got for it.

It's a shame that you and I don't seem to see eye to eye but then again I do make sport out of Mensan and his little crusade against me and that tends to draw out some ugly things.

 

Again, you guys are reaching so far you might sprain yourselves.

 

Just to be clear:

 

I know what the fuck you meant. Don't do it again

 

This is an open threat. This is no other way to take that. Considering you are not a mod I am just wondering wat it is exactly you are threatening me with? mod reporting? I think Mensan has that covered, I could comment on the sky and he would report me for being discriminatory to the ground. Come to my house and Kill me? could be seen that way given it's open nature and the general level of conversation on this board. how about we all just chill the fuck out?

Edited October 6, 2015 by Geeto67

[Mensan]

racist? hardly. and I see you are back to internet stalking again. Good for you. Coping with the divorce that well are you?

 

Now you're embarrassed about the shit that got you banned from another forum so you're trying to deflect. That shit won't go over here. And in the post above this one you insult the collective intelligence of CR? Good job.

 

The shit that I read on Jeeps Unlimited really pissed me off. It's part of the reason I don't like you, the stuff I read on other forums.

[Geeto67]

Now you're embarrassed about the shit that got you banned from another forum so you're trying to deflect. That shit won't go over here. And in the post above this one you insult the collective intelligence of CR? Good job.

 

The shit that I read on Jeeps Unlimited really pissed me off. It's part of the reason I don't like you, the stuff I read on other forums.

 

I am not trying to deflect anything. You have a real hard on for me and honestly outside of your casual jabs here I could give a lesser fuck about you. Jeeps Unlimited? you are pissed off about reading about my rear axle troubles in my 1995 YJ from 10 years ago?

 

ya know, internet stalking is considered harassing behavior. So it posting crap about me in other threads where I haven't even commented. I mean do you understand that this is becoming kind of an unhealthy obsession for you?

 

and you an I both know there are actually intelligent and cultured people on this site and in person they are quite lovely and most of them actually don't post that much or at all because the culture here sucks, mostly due to trolls like you.

 

Here is what I suggest. Go take a nap. have a drink. find another outlet for your frustrations. you have derailed this way to far and honestly everybody gets it. you don't like me. I don't think you can impress that anymore on anybody else. But your last several attempts to get me banned haven't worked for you and even if it is successful what have you gained? you worked so hard and spent so many hours toiling over a person you never met. good productive use of your time.

[Orion]

This is an open threat. This is no other way to take that. Considering you are not a mod I am just wondering wat it is exactly you are threatening me with? mod reporting? I think Mensan has that covered, I could comment on the sky and he would report me for being discriminatory to the ground. Come to my house and Kill me? could be seen that way given it's open nature and the general level of conversation on this board. how about we all just chill the fuck out?

 

An open threat would sounds something like, "If you do that again, I will beat you like the drum that you are." I'm 1200 miles away from you...what could I legitimately threaten you with? My ire? You've already earned that. What I said was, "Don't do it again." That is not a threat, it is a command. One you would be wise to follow.

 

actually, you were one of the people when I first joined that I liked a lot of what you said and was disappointed at how much shit you got for it.

It's a shame that you and I don't seem to see eye to eye

 

You still do. I'm good like that.

[Orion]

Additionally, I thought John Wick was a very entertaining movie.

[Geeto67]

An open threat would sounds something like, "If you do that again, I will beat you like the drum that you are." I'm 1200 miles away from you...what could I legitimately threaten you with? My ire? You've already earned that.

 

I don't know you are 1200 miles away. I also know literally nothing about you. Actually the people on this forum I do know don't seem to argue with me too much. and when they do they keep it civil. Only seems the people who get all tough guy are people who have moved away and I know nothing about.

 

 

What I said was, "Don't do it again." That is not a threat, it is a command. One you would be wise to follow.

 

Still comes across clearly as a threat. now knowing you are 1200 miles away makes it an largely empty one. people still send anthrax through the mail don't they? (p.s. that last statement was a joke, just like you giving me a "command" is a joke - also you seem to fail to grasp the implied threat of force that accompanies most commands is is also really funny, to me anyway).

 

Here's my point, do you really want to get wrapped up in Mensan's possible mental illness? he is literally on an internet stalking crusade here and is aggressively confrontational about it. I have no issue with you personally and I am not even aware of why you have taken offense to an expression that has been in use for close to 200 years (and longer if you translate it from greek a certain way) and is known not to have any implicit racial overtones. you haven't explained it and frankly at this point I don't care. All I am saying is - don't jump on his bandwagon, it's not going anywhere good.

 

Additionally, I thought John Wick was a very entertaining movie.

 

I do as well. See we agree on something.

[Orion]

My issue with you has nothing to do with Eli. You are both pompous assholes, Eli just has a personality. My issue with you stems from you being a pompous asshole, lacking personality, and your implied racism. Sort of like my "implied" threat.

 

You FEEL threatened, and thus you interpret what I say as threatening. A command may be followed for more reasons than the threat of violence or harm. It may be followed out of love, or respect. It may be followed because it is the right or correct thing to do. Or, in this case, it is followed because the commanded has no other choice but to obey. You won't do anything else, because much like the antagonist in the movie, you CAN do nothing else.

 

I do as well. See we agree on something.

 

Of course we do. You like me.

[Geeto67]

My issue with you has nothing to do with Eli. You are both pompous assholes, Eli just has a personality. My issue with you stems from you being a pompous asshole, lacking personality, and your implied racism. Sort of like my "implied" threat.

 

explain implied racism, as that requires some form of intent. That's the part I still don't get and you have done a shit job of explaining. I think you are assuming I know something I don't. I'm a pretty reasonable person all things considered, if you explain your position I'll at least listen.

 

You FEEL threatened, and thus you interpret what I say as threatening. A command may be followed for more reasons than the threat of violence or harm. It may be followed out of love, or respect. It may be followed because it is the right or correct thing to do. Or, in this case, it is followed because the commanded has no other choice but to obey. You won't do anything else, because much like the antagonist in the movie, you CAN do nothing else.

 

whatever dude, now you are just being pedantic. In the context there isn't any other way to read it, my feelings aside. Your commands have no meaning to me, love hate or indifferent. Enforce your command, I'll wait.

 

Of course we do. You like me.

meh, I could take it or leave it. you disappoint me more often that I would like recently.

 

otherwise I think we are done here.

[Orion]

you disappoint me more often that I would like recently.

 

That sounds like something you may have heard before. From a parent, perhaps? Tilley could probably help you with that, if you were to ask.

 

 

explain implied racism, as that requires some form of intent. That's the part I still don't get and you have done a shit job of explaining. I think you are assuming I know something I don't. I'm a pretty reasonable person all things considered, if you explain your position I'll at least listen.

 

The implication, son, is that it is a bad thing to be "black". The saying only works if others perceive blackness to be an undesirable trait. Absent that, let's suggest that a vase were accusing another vase of being ceramic, this is less an accusation and more an observation. This is what is referred to as symbolic terminology, but with negative connotations re: individuals and groups. Also, it suggests that blackness denotes hard use/abuse. A frying pan, a teakettle, a pot...none of these things are black (typically) when new. Blackness is acquired through use, and is something to be avoided if possible. You may as well be referring to someone as "unclean" or "undesired". If you want to get historical, then we can even examine the differences between the kettle and the pot. You mentioned that the phrase is old. In those days, a pot would have been warmed over a fire, while a kettle would have found itself resting in the coals themselves. The pot would be black as a result of the soot from the wood or coal, the kettle would have remained gleaming. The pot calling the kettle black, therefore, would be less about the kettle being black, and more about the pot, seeing it's reflection in the kettle and attaching the previously discussed undesirable nature of blackness to itself, wishing only to insult that which is "better" than itself.

 

 

whatever dude, now you are just being pedantic. In the context there isn't any other way to read it, my feelings aside. Your commands have no meaning to me, love hate or indifferent. Enforce your command, I'll wait.

 

*Orion listens to hear if any more racial witticisms fall out of Geeto's mouth/keyboard. Hearing none, he smiles*

[Geeto67]

I am a parent, it's not hard to spot childish devious behavior.

 

 

The implication, son, is that it is a bad thing to be "black". The saying only works if others perceive blackness to be an undesirable trait.

 

It isn't that the trait is undesirable, just that the one object is accusing the other of being different when in reality they share a same trait. The trait doesn't have to be inherently negative. The point is the hyprocracy. Also it's a big leap to translate soot from a coal fire to skin tone when the two objects are inanimate.

 

Absent that, let's suggest that a vase were accusing another vase of being ceramic, this is less an accusation and more an observation.

actually there are examples similar to this in antiquity (I see you read the wiki article I posted) implying the same meaning. Other things are snake and crab, splinters in ones eye, two different types of fruit trees, peanut butter and chocolate, etc... so your premise is invalid. again, you are just trying to find offense, the historical phrase to have survived is one that involved soot from a coal fire.

 

 

This is what is referred to as symbolic terminology, but with negative connotations re: individuals and groups.

 

maybe in your limited reading but again you are searching for something that doesn't have a natural implied historical meaning. You are physcially looking for something, and naturally you are going to find it no matter how illogical the route is that gets you there.

 

Also, it suggests that blackness denotes hard use/abuse. A frying pan, a teakettle, a pot...none of these things are black (typically) when new.

Not now they aren't because most in the modern era are stainless for ease of maintenance. However the majority of cookware for approximately 2000 years was cast iron which is black in its natural state and blackens deeper when you "season" it for use. I mean come on, I don't expect you to be a historian on cookware but you have to have seen at least one cast iron skillet in your life? you are really reaching here.

 

 

Blackness is acquired through use, and is something to be avoided if possible. You may as well be referring to someone as "unclean" or "undesired".

you are projecting again.

 

 

If you want to get historical, then we can even examine the differences between the kettle and the pot. You mentioned that the phrase is old. In those days, a pot would have been warmed over a fire, while a kettle would have found itself resting in the coals themselves. The pot would be black as a result of the soot from the wood or coal, the kettle would have remained gleaming. The pot calling the kettle black, therefore, would be less about the kettle being black, and more about the pot, seeing it's reflection in the kettle...

from the wiki article I posted

 

 

and attaching the previously discussed undesirable nature of blackness to itself, wishing only to insult that which is "better" than itself.

 

I could maybe see this if it wasn't attached to all that shit load of crazy you espoused earlier. Again if you want to take the position of a shared "fault" we are talking about two inanimate objects and a property they share through use - still doesn't make the leap to skin tone on a human.

 

you can justify anything with enough space and time. However the generally accepted use of this term does not follow you down this crazy interpretative rabbit hole.

 

*Orion listens to hear if any more racial witticisms fall out of Geeto's mouth/keyboard. Hearing none, he smiles*

 

I was going to say let's call a spade a spade (which is also not racist in origin as the original ancient greek translated to trowel or shovel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_a_spade_a_spade) and say you are just trying to find fault where there is one, but honestly I am kind of sick of typing responses to your gigantic leaps of flawed logic and assumption (oops I guess I did it anyway...tehee). Also clearly this is in here as a joke just to piss you off and no actual racism is intended or inferred.

 

 

Can we talk about John wick now? I really liked it when the female assassin got what she deserved at the end. Although clay pointed out that the way they shot her could have led to cross fire collateral damage.

[Orion]

Geeto, you have done a very good job convincing yourself that I, or no one else in my position, would be offended by what you have said. And yet, clearly, I was offended. You asked me to explain to you why I was, and I did. Your cross examination of my explanation is actually MORE offensive in it's insistence that I was in the wrong for being so. And it suggests an even larger degree of myopia and self importance on your part. Additionally, admitting that you may have been ignorant of any racial implications of your statement prior to your use of it and apologizing, while not a defense, would at least have saved you from looking like, instead, you were intending to offend, and are now justifying to yourself that you are "not a racist".

 

To use a law metaphor, if you did not know what a pistol was, or what it was used for, and yet you managed to shoot someone with it and wound/kill them, you would not be any less guilty of assault, or even murder. If, upon being charged with that crime, your argument was based not upon your own ignorance of the workings of a pistol, but instead suggested that the victim instead was at fault for allowing themselves to be wounded by the bullet you fired, you would not only be found guilty of the crime, but also considered an asshole of the highest order.

 

None of this is a surprise to anyone on CR at this point, however. As long as my command is followed, you should have nothing to worry about.

 

I really liked it when the female assassin got what she deserved at the end.

 

Of course you did. You love it when justice is served, except when it is served to you...

 

Just.

 

Like.

 

Me.

[Mr. Jones]

http://i.imgur.com/mHCFQZL.png

[Geeto67]

Let's be clear, you went out of your way to be offended. based on the generally accepted colloquial use of the term it is not one that inherently travels with offense. At some point in life you are going to offend someone, I listened to your explanation, I detailed why I found it beyond reasonable. your view is not consistent with the generally accepted modern use of the term nor it's historical use. I offer no apology.

 

I was actually kind hoping you would tell me Eli was black, because however unintentional it was that would actually have a more reasonable explanation for the offense despite it's intended use as a neutral term for hypocrisy. It would also be hilarious like the kind of joke they play on a sitcom.

 

To use a law metaphor, if you did not know what a pistol was, or what it was used for, and yet you managed to shoot someone with it and wound/kill them, you would not be any less guilty of assault, or even murder. If, upon being charged with that crime, your argument was based not upon your own ignorance of the workings of a pistol, but instead suggested that the victim instead was at fault for allowing themselves to be wounded by the bullet you fired, you would not only be found guilty of the crime, but also considered an asshole of the highest order.

 

Please don't try to use law metaphors. It demeans both of us. The argument above is invalid because it uses some very specific terms of art with very specific requirements incorrectly and draw faulty conclusions from them. it honestly gives me a headache just to read it. If you want me to fix it for you so it makes some kind of sense I can, but you have to ask nicely.

 

Also being an asshole is subjective, someone is always going to be an asshole to someone else somewhere and I am sure there are plenty of people in the world who think shooting someone period makes them an asshole regardless of reason. it is one of the reasons I don't mind being called one, because it is limited to that small person's world and ultimately inconsequential to the larger picture.

 

By the way, I was reading reccently that the director of John Wick was heavily influenced by the 1967 Point Blank. If you haven't seen it, you should. It is awesome. Lee Marvin at his gritty best and the Stegman scene where they smash up a new chrylser imperial convertible is awesome. The same movie was also an influence to Payback which I mentioned in an earlier post.

[Orion]

Let's be clear, you went out of your way to be offended.

 

If by "Let's be clear" you mean to say "My understanding of the situation is", then you are making an accurate statement. However, to "be clear", I did NOT go "out of my way" to be offended. I read what you wrote, and based upon my prior life experience and sensibilities, I was offended. Perhaps I'm sensitive to subtle racial overtones, but this is the world in which I live. Not something you would understand, most likely, having lived with white privilege for your whole life. My view, and that of many who are black, is considered "not consistent" with "generally accepted" uses and views of many things, because, let's face it, blacks don't get to do much in the way of dictating policy.

 

This is the third time you have brought Eli back into the conversation. For all of your insistence that he has a hardon for you, the feeling appears, from here at least, to be mutual.

 

It was not an argument, it was an illustration. It was also less for you than it was for the casual observer. Law is YOUR strong suit, energy is mine. Unfortunately, there aren't many energy metaphors to draw on to illustrate the current situation. If you would like to explain your self delusion in a more artful way, I will not stop you.

 

If being an asshole is subjective, could it also follow that being offended is subjective as well? What is offensive to me may not be to you, however, your view of that situation does not change mine. Interesting that you would point that out. The difference here though, is that while you may not mind being called an asshole, I DO mind racist commentary. Subtle, ignorant, or otherwise.

 

EDIT: It strikes me, as I read back through the thread, how similar your response to my offense to your racism is to your response to Eli being offended that the OP had spoilers. Is it your typical stance that folks should just not be offended by things? That would at least partially explain the general attitude of distaste for your presence on CR.

[zeitgeist57]

I know Kerry. Kerry is my friend.

 

However, I am not responsible for his e-battles in this thread.

 

Tee Ell; Dee ARRRRR....

[Mojoe]

Orion, I can appreciate your position on this, and your willingness to explain your view on these posts. I don't like passive, and you are addressing what you have issue with. Kudo's to you, in my eyes. I truly hope this is something that is resolved, and at the very least, now that addressed, it is squashed.

 

Geeto67, though I have not been a fan of your approach to many of your posts, you simply are lacking the ability to see any other point of view than your own. Members here, to include myself, have said this to you politely and it is now at a point where many are being very blunt. You are a knowledgeable person on many things. There are many members here that are very informed and intelligent, yet not over baring. You defend to the death of a thread, every stance you have. It's frustrating to many on the board. Please reevaluate how you conduct yourself.

 

I am a white guy. I lived in an area where I was a minority, for four years. What I can tell you is, regardless of intent, if you have offended someone on a tone of race, professing your innocence on a view you can't share is rude. I once thought I was funny and replied "your mom" to one of two twin black brothers from the Bronx. To me, it was harmless and I was making a joke. To one of the brothers, he thought I was insulting his mother. He was coming at me, ready to fight. The other brother intervened, and told him "He doesn't know. It's not the same to him". It wasn't the same. We grew up in very different areas. I trained with these brothers for several month after that, and we got past that incident. But, I explained myself to ensure they knew I meant nothing by it. I'm not someone who needs to be right about everything. I did nothing wrong. But, my lack of understanding their perspective was hurtful.

[Drewhop]

Not really looking into it much. Geeto just seems to be a douche. Not real sure anything else describes him better. Being a douche on Cr is OK. Being a racist douche is not.