Sledhead36 Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 I'm not hating on them for taking advantage of grants, loans, rebates, and abatements. Of coarse any business that has those kind of things available to them will take advantage of them. I understand what you are saying about the superchargers, but you can't ignore that cost. Musk might be a genius when it comes to most things, but thinking that you can bleed cash to the tune of 500 million dollar net losses annually isn't being a good business man, it's being arrogant and ignorant. Your Subway franchise analogy is a little bit off. This would more accurately describe the situation: Joe opens a Subway. He is losing money because he is paying some large payment on the building, and a franchise fee. A lot of those costs will disappear in 10 years, and after that Joe will be greatly profitable. Joe gets the bright idea to promise to have a sub he sells for $1. He can't make the sub for $1, and the store obviously has production limitations. So the only thing Joe is doing is ensuring his company loses MORE money. It will take time away from his sandwich artists who make $5 subs (which are profitable) as well. I concur, the examples was over simplified. Yours is better. But the fact remains, the government incentivizes the areas of business they want to grow and create jobs. The EV business is bigger than self driving cars. What if you could give the middle finger to AEP? Obama gave $500M to Solara, all the money was lost, no jobs, no business, nothing made......and nobody is pissed? Their P&L did not even show where the money went. And we should talk crap about someone actually doing everything they said they would do? Talk about ripple effect...... I probably paid for a ton of people to get government assistance for their personal use by my increased taxes on my Tesla earnings! I am ok with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs.cos Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 I can't wait for the first autopilot related accident and the ensuing legal battle. look at the stats for the google auto car.. every incident it has been in, has been human error, not the autopilot. its a little crazy how well its doing. Auto Drive Document Activity Summary Vehicles ● 23 Lexus RX450h SUVs – currently self-driving on public streets, mainly Mountain View, CA ● 9 prototypes – currently self-driving on closed test tracks Miles driven since start of project in 2009 “Autonomous mode” means the software is driving the vehicle, and safety drivers are not touching the manual controls. “Manual mode” means the safety drivers are driving the car. ● Autonomous mode: 1,011,338 miles ● Manual mode: 796,250 miles ● We’re currently averaging ~10,000 autonomous miles per week on public streets In the six years of our project, we’ve been involved in 12 minor accidents during more than 1.8 million miles of autonomous and manual driving combined. Not once was the self-driving car the cause of the accident. (For this first report, we’re including summaries of all accidents since the start of our project in 2009. In future monthly reports, we will provide info on accidents in that month.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unfunnyryan Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Yeah... it isn't happening. 4.9 BILLION in government subsidies and still operating at a net loss selling cars for 3x as much. Sooner or later they have to start working towards self sufficiency and getting itself of the .gov teet. And $35k cars that cost more than that to produce, are not gonna get them there. Look what we bailed GM and chrysler out for and what they've brought to the table since :dumb: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Karacho1647545492 Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Look what we bailed GM and chrysler out for and what they've brought to the table since :dumb: You mean Chrysler's year-over-year increasing sales for 5 straight years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledhead36 Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 I wonder if low interest rates are a form of subsidy? Tesla payed back their government loan nine years early.......how is GM doing on their loan? http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/07/02/2-big-concerns-in-fiat-chryslers-sales-numbers.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bahd-ler Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 My grandfathers Buggywhip factory said the exact same thing when they launch the very first automobile........ Nice burn.... touching really... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buelliganx1 Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 Look what we bailed GM and chrysler out for and what they've brought to the table since :dumb: To bad Lee Iacocca paid the government back what they received. In fact in Lee's book he said when he handed Reagan the check to pay them back the government didnt know what to do with it, it had been so long since they had actually been on the receiving end. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbs3000 Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 To bad Lee Iacocca paid the government back what they received. In fact in Lee's book he said when he handed Reagan the check to pay them back the government didnt know what to do with it, it had been so long since they had actually been on the receiving end. lol I assume he's talking 09 bail out not 80's .gov loans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledhead36 Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 I assume he's talking 09 bail out not 80's .gov loans. Nobody cares about the 80s, we are talking the huge bailout where they buried pontiac......Tesla has wide open patents....GM, more than anyone, should be all over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbs3000 Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 Nobody cares about the 80s, we are talking the huge bailout where they buried pontiac......Tesla has wide open patents....GM, more than anyone, should be all over it. I agree, tell him not me haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledhead36 Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 I agree, tell him not me haha. Lol, sorry, that is what I meant to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirks5oh Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 Not gonna lie, I was in Columbus last weekend for a work conference and the game. Drank way too much at lunch in Easton at the rusty bucket, walked into the tesla store, had the guy drive us around Easton, and nearly walked out with a tesla. I love the rear facing seat, and obviously all the power. But. The interior on that car is dog shit compared to my Audi. There's only one supercharger in Wisconsin. And there's no dealership in Wisconsin. The thought of having to take my car to Chicago for anything going wrong with it makes it a prohibitive purchase at this time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledhead36 Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 (edited) Not gonna lie, I was in Columbus last weekend for a work conference and the game. Drank way too much at lunch in Easton at the rusty bucket, walked into the tesla store, had the guy drive us around Easton, and nearly walked out with a tesla. I love the rear facing seat, and obviously all the power. But. The interior on that car is dog shit compared to my Audi. There's only one supercharger in Wisconsin. And there's no dealership in Wisconsin. The thought of having to take my car to Chicago for anything going wrong with it makes it a prohibitive purchase at this time You are right about the interior.....it is all about weight. More weight, less range. A delicate balance. Getting longer range batteries is next in line, when they do, the interiors will get more luxury. Service will come to you if you are over 100 miles from a service center. I have had 2 cars for over 3 years, never been to a service center. They made me bring it in just to look at it, but most service, if any, happens over your wifi. There is no maintenance, except for washer fluid........just do it. I can save you a $1000 by 10/31. Edited October 18, 2015 by Mitch fixed quote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirks5oh Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 I have to decide what I'm going to do with my other cars. Mainly my vette. Pretty sure I'm keeping the gtr and I love the Audi. They had a metallic brown paint and optional wheels looked good. Alcantara interior was nice. I knew the acceleration was going to be quick, and different from my other cars. Even with 5 of us in the car, the launch was uncomfortably violent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted October 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 The fact that I learned that Paul Liska is working at a high level at Tesla here at the store made us say not a freakin chance. Not gonna have any chance to have to interact with that douche ever again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledhead36 Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 The fact that I learned that Paul Liska is working at a high level at Tesla here at the store made us say not a freakin chance. Not gonna have any chance to have to interact with that douche ever again. Who is Paul Liska? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Nobody cares about the 80s, we are talking the huge bailout where they buried pontiac......Tesla has wide open patents....GM, more than anyone, should be all over it. Chrysler paid all the money back ahead of schedule. And even though Elon says they are wide open, legally no one will touch them with a 10 foot pole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledhead36 Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Been using mine for 2 days now, very reliable and amazing.......it's the other retards with old fashioned manual steering that scare me! All emotion and no logic. Lol, all kidding aside.... it really is amazing. On the highway it is awesome. On city roads it drives like a teenager, a little erratic but makes its way. I drove 2 hours with it on and really enjoyed eating with 2 hands and checking emails. It will be a game changer on late night drives for those who get groggy. My prediction, is that this will be back up to "over the road" semi trucks in the not-too-distant future. Mercedes already has a full electric semi on the drawing board that drives itself. In between now and then, I could see making truck drivers safer by having a system that will assist them to stay on the road and drive safely. While this is the first generation of true self driving, for daily commuting....... our lives are about to change. Uber is already trying to negotiate a deal with Tesla for cars that fully drive themselves, you would use an app to call one to your location and send it to wherever you are going. My question is, if Tesla can do this, why the hell do they need Uber? Uber has their own technology center and a partnership with CMU for developing autonomous drive technology. They are not working with Tesla but I believe Elon made previous statements about having their own car share program. Been a while since he said that, but other OEM's are doing the same. Mercedes has had a Freightliner (not EV) that can drive autonomously on the highway for months now. They had a big press event when it got its Nevada license plate. I hear the 2017 XC90 is to have this and Volvo is assuming all damages if a Volvo car is found to be at fault. I also read this may be illegal in the US right now. The XC90 has Traffic Jam Pilot. In concept it works really well, until you actually try to use it. Nice SUV though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 look at the stats for the google auto car.. every incident it has been in, has been human error, not the autopilot. its a little crazy how well its doing. Auto Drive Document Tesla Autopilot is not anything like a Google car. The Model S only has a single forward camera and a single forward radar, the same as many cars with only ACC. The Google cars have far more sensing and logic. You can still have a decent feature with what Tesla is doing, but having no method of hands on wheel detection is a bit wreckless. People will (and already are based on every fucking video) abusing the hell out of the system. There will be an accident eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) Why? Because there's no guarantee Elon's statement will hold up in court and many have said that the open patents were nothing special. Edited October 20, 2015 by Mallard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledhead36 Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Is this just opinion or you know inside information? I am curious why others have not jumped on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 It's what I have been told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted October 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Who is Paul Liska? Service Manager, was the Service Manager at Byers Subaru Mazda, well known for being a douche in the area. Especially for Subaru peeps. Many complaints on COS, Trish the Admin can attest to it also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE-O Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Already video of a guy correcting his tesla as it crosses a double yellow and almost side swiped oncoming car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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