Black Lives Matter activist commits suicide outside the Ohio Statehouse

[SpaceGhost]

Chicago is a bad place.

[TTQ B4U]

Evidently black lives don't matter.....especially given the way he was treated after being knocked out. People just leave him there, do nothing to the dick who punched him, rifled through the dudes pockets and left him in the gutter to be run over by a Taxi! (video on nightly news is shocking) Really? I'm speechless after seeing it.

 

Amazing but not surprising that the family is going after 7/11 for money. Guy hasn't been dead one day and they are suing for money. Never-mind the rest of the community and the fact that they treated this guy like a pile of dog shit. Their own community they clearly don't feel black lives matter. Sad for all of humanity.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-bartender-death-lawsuit-0421-20160420-story.html

 

Chicago is a bad place.

 

 

It's time that communities and people start holding themselves accountable, take personal responsibility and being to act like human beings and decent citizens. These people are fucking animals/rats and are the ones who need deported out of the US.

[cstmg8]

That video is crazy, the first two people that approach the unconscious man, seem to rob him, then everyone just leaves and ignores him!

[SpaceGhost]

Like so rough I'ma go through the UP of Michigan to get to Road America.

[C-Mart]

I know you are joking, but Chicago is a big city. Anywhere worth going is safe and if you are driving through just make sure you get gas a couple dozen miles before Gary.

[oh8sti]

Next time anyone talks to me about this BLM bullshit I'm showing them this 5 min clip. Every second of it.

[Geeto67]

It's time that communities and people start holding themselves accountable, take personal responsibility and being to act like human beings and decent citizens. These people are fucking animals/rats and are the ones who need deported out of the US.

 

You do realize that this is not an argument against BLM, right? I mean the primary focus of the movement is racial disparity in law enforcement. Talking about communities taking responsible for people is great and all but 1) it doesn't focus on government action at all, and 2) it carries with it thus untrue assumption that white communities don't have this problem. If you think that's true perhaps you have never heard of kitty genovese?

 

Not wanting to "help" strangers is a symptom of living in a low income area with a lot of crime regardless of race. The mind your own business phenomenon is not exclusive to any one group. Attaching race to it and saying "well they can't take care of their own why should they enjoy equal protection from law enforcement" is not a good argument. In other word you can't use one social problem as a reason to be dismissive of another social problem.

 

Everyone's life matters. This is a universal truth and should be used as the rallying cry to try and address all social inequalities, not as an excuse to ignore or be dismissive of one. The reality is law enforcement does not treat all people equal and acts in a disproportionately violent manner toward certain racial groups. And what any community does is not going to change that. That change needs to come from those who oversee law enforcement.

[TTQ B4U]

You do realize that this is not an argument against BLM, right?

 

yes and my point is filled with sarcasm around the name of the group. it is pretty ironic that there's a group embolden enough to call themselves "black" lives matter. their concerns begin from within so perhaps they need to go march near this 7/11.

 

In other word you can't use one social problem as a reason to be dismissive of another social problem.

You and I can agree to disagree to the level of inequality and race as it relates to police force. Are cops tough dicks at times, yes. Are they more so in rat-ridden areas of town regardless of the color of the rat. IMO people hide behind race too much. Perhaps, but then they don't face the same situations in the suburbs as they do the ghettos of the world. If someone doesn't want to get shot by a cop, then don't wrestle with or pull a weapon on a cop. Color doesn't matter to a LEO when you're pointing a gun at them or fighting to get theirs.

 

Everyone's life matters.

Agree.

 

The reality is law enforcement does not treat all people equal and acts in a disproportionately violent manner toward certain racial groups. And what any community does is not going to change that.

what those communities and people, no matter what their color can do to change that is act like decent citizens. sorry, but I have zero cares about a punk running the streets at 11pm stealing stuff and fighting with cops. if he ends up dead so be it. his family and his own actions failed him not the cops. they are doing their best to make it home themselves and doing a thankless job in the shittiest parts of town. Parents need to actually do their job to raise responsible kids that don't go getting themselves killed. Pretty simple. I would even argue most in their situations shouldn't even be having kids. If they are so poor and without ability to care for themselves, then don't have children. Again, they have a personal responsibility and need to make some better decisions. That's on them not anyone else.

 

That change needs to come from those who oversee law enforcement.

Yes and no. Chicken or egg, and IMO the actions of the community need to change so that the cops won't be needed in the first place. Again, personal responsibility and they have none. In turn, yeah, sometimes they aren't going to like the consequences. I'm beyond sick and tired of people always trying to game the system, blame others and cry foul.

 

It's time the bullshit excuses stops and people are smacked across the face with real-world truth that they need to get their own house in order if they want to see a better life. If they want respect then EARN IT. Don't want to see your kids killed by cops then raise them to be productive citizens that don't put themselves in dumbass situations.

Edited April 22, 2016 by TTQ B4U

[El Karacho1647545492]

It's time the bullshit excuses stops and people are smacked across the face with real-world truth that they need to get their own house in order if they want to see a better life. If they want respect then EARN IT. Don't want to see your kids killed by cops then raise them to be productive citizens that don't put themselves in dumbass situations.

 

It's very easy to say this kind of thing when you've never been on the ass end of any racial oppression. I believe both sides of the argument exaggerate quite a bit, but the fact of the matter is that I strongly doubt that any member of CR has ever had to deal with anything as soul-crushing and difficult as growing up on the South Side of Chicago. There is very little opportunity for youths there, it's very easy to tell people to "take personal responsibility" but many of these kids have been raised in an environment without any. They're raised with crucial family members in jail or dead, missing out on major milestones that help children develop into productive adults. Can you really blame a kid who has been raised around violence and crime, without adequate education, to understand the concept of personal responsibility AND act on it?

 

I don't believe that racial oppression is 100% systematic at this point, but it's a self-replicating problem. I'm all for pulling yourself up by your bootstraps but I don't think you understand that these people are born without the proverbial boots at all, but they don't know that. They don't know there's a larger world out there because no one has offered them the opportunity to discover it.

 

Have you ever been subject to a "stop and frisk"? I have. I'm a big fat white guy, but when I lived in Boston I was seen by police in a neighborhood "I shouldn't have been in" so I was stopped and frisked. It's violating, and it's fucking bullshit. I could absolutely see how that being part of my world would have a strong mental effect on me.

 

I'm not justifying these crooks' actions, but it's so very very easy to suggest the solutions you are suggesting when you've never actually experienced profiling, unfairness, and the daily suspicion of those who are charged to serve and protect you.

[Geeto67]

Have you ever been subject to a "stop and frisk"? I have. I'm a big fat white guy, but when I lived in Boston I was seen by police in a neighborhood "I shouldn't have been in" so I was stopped and frisked. It's violating, and it's fucking bullshit. I could absolutely see how that being part of my world would have a strong mental effect on me.

 

I actually have a funny story about this....back in 2009 I was working as a consultant on a job in Newark, NJ. So everyday I had to take the World Trade Path Train from the rubble site to NJ from Brooklyn, it was about an hour commute using multiple subways and one little hiccup with the trains and I could easily get behind. They had police scattered through out the path station performing random searches and stop and frisk. Almost every work day for nearly 2 months I was stopped by the NYPD and searched. Apparently, they were under orders to search anybody conspicuous or suspicious and a 6'5" 300lb white dude with a jew-fro and a goatee running through the path station is not discrete. Eventually I managed to get it resolved though a series of complaints and the threat to sue (on legal letterhead to the city's legal counsel).

 

The one thing that I think about all the time though, is while I was waiting in the waiting area to get searched, I stood out as predominantly the only white dude. I managed to get it resolved because I have an education and resources, but if you think "the complexion for protection" is a myth it is not.

[TTQ B4U]

It's very easy to say this kind of thing when you've never been on the ass end of any racial oppression.

 

I don't feel anyone needs to be on the receiving end of either good or bad in order to make a personal decision around their own actions. Whether it's me living the dream in the burbs surfer CR or living in the hood trying to get by in life, shouldn't EVERYONE regardless of their situation strive to be productive members of society vs thugs? In fact it's just as easy for anyone not just me or you to see and understand the proper way to live in society.

 

I believe both sides of the argument exaggerate quite a bit, but the fact of the matter is that I strongly doubt that any member of CR has ever had to deal with anything as soul-crushing and difficult as growing up on the South Side of Chicago. There is very little opportunity for youths there, it's very easy to tell people to "take personal responsibility" but many of these kids have been raised in an environment without any.

 

Not doubt having role models in important, but we in society can't allow such behavior's to exist or be tolerated or given "excuses." Just because kids have been raised in the hood. They know better and I'm sorry but they are still in need of being responsible. They don't get to live by lower standards just because they come from the hood. Laws are laws and rules are rules. I don't believe they get to be held to any different standards. Time for lowering the bar to end. The bar is the bar and you need to meet that bar regardless. See that's that part they don't like....they don't like being held to the same standards as everyone else. They think it's okay for kids to rob stores, wrestle with cops, charge at them when a gun is involved and NOT be shot....really? Sorry but you win stupid prizes when you do stupid things.

 

They're raised with crucial family members in jail or dead, missing out on major milestones that help children develop into productive adults. Can you really blame a kid who has been raised around violence and crime, without adequate education, to understand the concept of personal responsibility AND act on it?

 

To my point, these "families" or really individuals need to NOT have kids if they aren't in a position to raise them properly. Sorry, but that's a personal responsibility that yes begins with the PARENTS. The resulting kids are in a crappy situation, but they aren't DUMB and YES I do expect that they understand the concepts of right and wrong and personal responsibility. Those are pretty basic underlying concepts in life that even my dog understands. She pisses in the house and she is punished. Took her all of about 4-6 weeks to figure it out. Human beings aren't dumb.

 

I don't believe that racial oppression is 100% systematic at this point, but it's a self-replicating problem. I'm all for pulling yourself up by your bootstraps but I don't think you understand that these people are born without the proverbial boots at all, but they don't know that. They don't know there's a larger world out there because no one has offered them the opportunity to discover it.

 

I see the point you're trying to make but you're giving them the exact excuse and mulligan in life that's keeping them in the hole. It's complete BS that they don't know there's another word out there. This is 2016, no one is in a bubble anymore. They have complete exposure to the world around them and the expectations the world has for EVERYONE. It's time that people begin to CHOOSE to act accordingly vs being given every excuse under the sun to get away with bad behaviors and finger pointing. Hand them a mirror and explain that the problem isn't in that outside world they pretend not to know anything about.

 

Have you ever been subject to a "stop and frisk"? I have. I'm a big fat white guy, but when I lived in Boston I was seen by police in a neighborhood "I shouldn't have been in" so I was stopped and frisked. It's violating, and it's fucking bullshit. I could absolutely see how that being part of my world would have a strong mental effect on me.

 

I get patted down at the airport and by cops just like anyone. Anyone with a CHL is going to be recognized by the cops either in a good or bad way but certainly in a cautious way as they know the likelihood is you might have a firearm on you. I travel tons and go through more security than most here. I've been stopped in poor neighborhoods as cops likely wonder if I"m there looking for drugs vs simply being on a sales call. So yes, I have. Not a big deal.

 

I'm not justifying these crooks' actions, but it's so very very easy to suggest the solutions you are suggesting when you've never actually experienced profiling, unfairness, and the daily suspicion of those who are charged to serve and protect you.

 

I don't suspect you're justifying their actions but you're leaving the same door open that I mentioned earlier. The open door to their excuses and yes they will likely take that easy door / excuse vs change. Path of least resistance. I'm not a hater of profiling. I believe in it actually. Cops are here to serve and protect and I've been on the receiving end of PO'd cops during traffic stops. I also recognize why the are "amped up" and understand that. THey don't know me, if I'm armed or why I was doing what I was doing.

 

I also recognize that being combative and argumentative isn't going to end well so I make pretty informed decisions around my actions. I've never wrestled for their gun, never run from them, never tried to hide drugs, etc. I think for the most part I've been pretty responsible and accountable for my actions and it's no secret that it's worked out better than doing otherwise.

[El Karacho1647545492]

"To my point, these "families" or really individuals need to NOT have kids if they aren't in a position to raise them properly. Sorry, but that's a personal responsibility that yes begins with the PARENTS. The resulting kids are in a crappy situation, but they aren't DUMB and YES I do expect that they understand the concepts of right and wrong and personal responsibility. Those are pretty basic underlying concepts in life that even my dog understands. She pisses in the house and she is punished. Took her all of about 4-6 weeks to figure it out. Human beings aren't dumb."

 

Here's the thing; your dog lives in a supportive environment where punishment and reward are clearly defined consequences of distinct actions. That is not the world these people live in; they suffer consequences for vague actions, or even no actions. "stop and frisk" just for being black or standing on a certain street. Do you think your dog would understand the concept of "you should not be a yellow dog standing on this sidewalk because yellow dogs that stand on this sidewalk often bite people?" I agree that it falls on the parents. It's no secret that the Chicago PD is insanely corrupt and probably breaks the law just as much as the people on the South Side that they're arresting. When you grow up seeing that, your view of personal responsibility is skewed. You are raised with the instruction that your personal responsibility is to never talk to the cops, never snitch, and never ever trust the white man. Yeah, that's the parents problems, but that's also how they were raised. For instance, you were raised with strong concepts of fairness, justice, and personal responsibility; how long do you think you'd survive in Mogadishu? Or Sudan? Or Nigeria? That's not your world, you're a minority there, and your concepts of justice and fairness carry no weight there. Would you simply adapt and turn into a warlord overnight in order to ensure your survival, because those are the values that ensure survival and integration into the local society? There's a very good chance you'd be killed before you got the opportunity, just because you're a white guy looking suspicious in a place that doesn't trust white guys.

 

I think many people fail to understand exactly how different that world (South Side, not Africa) is compared to white suburban America. When I mentioned stop and frisk, you immediately went to an airport pat down. That is, to my mind, the most illustrative way of proving my point possible. You went to a scenario that almost no South Side Chicago native will ever experience; they can't even afford a goddamn plane ticket, how can you even compare getting patted down at an airport to stop and frisk? Driving through bad neighborhoods and getting talked to by police isn't an equivalent scenario. In my experience, I was walking to a friend's car and a paddy wagon came flying up next to me, both officers jumped out of the car, drew their guns, and yelled "HANDS ON THE CAR!" Even knowing that I'd done absolutely nothing wrong or illegal, it still is an incredibly anxious moment because I have no idea why they're acting with such aggression, I've got no idea if they think I've done something I haven't done, and I don't know what they're going to do. If that happened to me on a daily or even weekly basis in my own neighborhood, you bet I'd be hesitant to accept the idea that this is somehow my fault and I need to take personal responsibility to make it better.

[Geeto67]

yes and my point is filled with sarcasm around the name of the group. it is pretty ironic that there's a group embolden enough to call themselves "black" lives matter. their concerns begin from within so perhaps they need to go march near this 7/11.

 

They are predominantly black people protesting unfair racial treatment. What should they call themselves? To protest you have to be a little bit bold. If you think their name should be minority lives matter and they should take on the social injustices against native Americans, latinos, and middle easterners (other groups that feel disproportionate impact of police violence) then I agree. Otherwise this is protest 101 - your movement should clearly indicate who your group is and what they are searching to bring awareness to. It's very good marketing.

 

You and I can agree to disagree to the level of inequality and race as it relates to police force. Are cops tough dicks at times, yes. Are they more so in rat-ridden areas of town regardless of the color of the rat. IMO people hide behind race too much. Perhaps, but then they don't face the same situations in the suburbs as they do the ghettos of the world. If someone doesn't want to get shot by a cop, then don't wrestle with or pull a weapon on a cop. Color doesn't matter to a LEO when you're pointing a gun at them or fighting to get theirs.

 

I can't even. People don't "Hide" behind race. you can't hide your race no matter how much money or education you have. Just Ask Michael Jackson or Neil Degrasse Tyson. If you are tired of hearing a disaffected people claim inequality exists, then do something to fix the inequality, don't blame the victim for being vocal.

 

 

 

what those communities and people, no matter what their color can do to change that is act like decent citizens.

This is a little despicable because it presumes that people in minority communities don't already act like decent citizens. I have lived in the lower 9th ward of New Orleans and I have lived in Crown Heights Brooklyn and I can tell you that people in those black communities act as decent as people in any other communities. Low income areas have more crime because they have more people in desperate situations - it is a function of economics not race. Disproportionally affecting a particular racial group is a symptom not a cause.

 

Why the message has been internally for the black and latino communities to "police" themselves is because they can't really rely on law enforcement to do that. The presumption that white communities don't have these problems is false because 1) they do but people ignore it because economic disparity affects other races in greater numbers, 2) they can rely on law enforcement.

 

 

sorry, but I have zero cares about a punk running the streets at 11pm stealing stuff and fighting with cops. if he ends up dead so be it. his family and his own actions failed him not the cops. they are doing their best to make it home themselves and doing a thankless job in the shittiest parts of town.

Thank you for not using Thug which has become the socially acceptable substitute for that other vile slur describing black people. However, something we should point out is there is an inherent bias when we look at crime. You get a white italian drug dealer or racketeer with organized crime connections they are a "wiseguy". They make movies glorifying the lifestyle and are thought of as anti-heros. But that persons equivalent in the black community is a "thug". They are not considered an anti-hero they are a villain, there are almost no movies glorifying the lifestyle. There is an inherent societal racism even in crime that contributes as to how criminals are treated. But let's forget the criminals for a second - what about the regular people? Don't they deserve equal protection from law enforcement? that is what we are really talking about. Your argument about criminals should be treated like criminals as a response to BLM either presumes that the majority of other races are criminals, or that non-criminals are treated equally - neither of which is true.

 

If they are so poor and without ability to care for themselves, then don't have children. Again, they have a personal responsibility and need to make some better decisions. That's on them not anyone else.

 

Careful, you are getting awfully close to advocating racially biased eugenics.

 

IMO the actions of the community need to change so that the cops won't be needed in the first place.

A self policing community is one rife with corruption. Law enforcement is meant to provide a necessary structure and impartiality, but in practices is suffers all the same imperfect societal ills we all do as humans. But if you think the current policing is corrupt then can you imagine if it was left to the "community" with no oversight? the perfect community is one in which there is a balance.

 

 

Again, personal responsibility and they have none. In turn, yeah, sometimes they aren't going to like the consequences. I'm beyond sick and tired of people always trying to game the system, blame others and cry foul.

Who is the "they"? You can't say every protest against a societal ill is gaming the system. Also, it is a fallicy to think that the system is "equal" for everyone. We are way better than we were 50 years ago, but we aren't anywhere near system equality by a damn sight.

 

It's time the bullshit excuses stops and people are smacked across the face with real-world truth that they need to get their own house in order if they want to see a better life. If they want respect then EARN IT. Don't want to see your kids killed by cops then raise them to be productive citizens that don't put themselves in dumbass situations.

 

ok grandpa, I'll get off your lawn. First off: Property ownership is not the gateway to a better life. There are plenty of people that earn respect and it still isn't given. the focus of BLM, which you have completely missed, is that isn't isn't about people being killed in dumbass situations, it's them being killed in non-dumbass situations which happens more often than anybody in those communities would like.

[cstmg8]

You have to agree though, that this argument lends to perpetuating the situation. No one is saying that these kids have the full responsibility go pull themselves up by their bootstraps, but what about the adults in these areas? You mentioned the parents yourself, after living 30 yrs in that area and on this earth, you have a pretty good idea of what works and what doesn't.

The world isn't as small as it used to be, people see more culture/society than ever before (sometimes to a fault). It's not the 70's when the only dose of a different world was the Brady Bunch and Jeffersons on Thursday nights.

You make a legitimate and well spoken argument, but what's your answer? If your waiting for the government to fix your life, or provide the golden pathway to prosperity, your going to die poor (in more ways than fiscally).

How do we instill in people (white and black) the drive and desire for a better spot on this marble?

[El Karacho1647545492]

You have to agree though, that this argument lends to perpetuating the situation. No one is saying that these kids have the full responsibility go pull themselves up by their bootstraps, but what about the adults in these areas? You mentioned the parents yourself, after living 30 yrs in that area and on this earth, you have a pretty good idea of what works and what doesn't.

The world isn't as small as it used to be, people see more culture/society than ever before (sometimes to a fault). It's not the 70's when the only dose of a different world was the Brady Bunch and Jeffersons on Thursday nights.

You make a legitimate and well spoken argument, but what's your answer? If your waiting for the government to fix your life, or provide the golden pathway to prosperity, your going to die poor (in more ways than fiscally).

How do we instill in people (white and black) the drive and desire for a better spot on this marble?

 

Quit shooting each other (cops and locals both) and sit down for a damn minute to outline steps that each can take in order to make a better world for everyone's children.

 

Isn't that America in a nutshell?

 

Too much of this argument goes against JFK's immortal words; BLM is asking what Cops are going to do, and Cops are asking what BLM is going to do. Instead, Cops need to ask BLM what Cops can do, and BLM needs to ask Cops what BLM can do.

[cstmg8]

Quit shooting each other (cops and locals both) and sit down for a damn minute to outline steps that each can take in order to make a better world for everyone's children.

 

Isn't that America in a nutshell?

Agreed, I wish a strategy that direct was actually used/accepted. Oh, and the fact that if you break the rules, you pay the consequences.

[TTQ B4U]

Here's the thing; your dog lives in a supportive environment where punishment and reward are clearly defined consequences of distinct actions. That is not the world these people live in; they suffer consequences for vague actions, or even no actions. "stop and frisk" just for being black or standing on a certain street.

 

What consequences they faced with stop and frisk? I go through it all the time at the airport due to the metal arch supports in my dress shoes. Not a big deal. Stop and frisk was based on the concept of preventing small crimes to create an atmosphere of order and lawfulness that would in turn retard more serious crimes and bad guys from hanging out there. No different than when tons of police are at a ball game the likelihood of stupid people causing trouble nearly disappears. Giuliani and his tough policies are what cleaned up NYC. Now that it's good people are tending to forget how it got to be good. Let's watch as the policies soften and the crime returns. No different than Iraq and all the other Middle Eastern places that were once ruled with a heavy hand for a solid reason. Look where those place are without their leaders they once had. No condoning their ways, but the facts still stand that once you leave the cages open be prepared for madness.

 

I agree that it falls on the parents. When you grow up seeing that, your view of personal responsibility is skewed. You are raised with the instruction that your personal responsibility is to never talk to the cops, never snitch, and never ever trust the white man. Yeah, that's the parents problems, but that's also how they were raised.

To the above my point is simply these parents or people raising kids as I find it hard to call many of them parents since they do nearly no "parenting" is that both them and their kids still have to be contributing citizens that stay out of trouble and become part of society. If they choose to be different and cause trouble then they will pay the price.

 

For instance, you were raised with strong concepts of fairness, justice, and personal responsibility; how long do you think you'd survive in Mogadishu? Or Sudan? Or Nigeria? That's not your world, you're a minority there, and your concepts of justice and fairness carry no weight there.

Good news is these kids are in the US and I don't have to face the lawlessness and disorder of the above places.

 

There's a very good chance you'd be killed before you got the opportunity, just because you're a white guy looking suspicious in a place that doesn't trust white guys.

Again, these kids are in the US where regardless of their trust level of whites they aren't killed or punished for simply existing. They are being punished or shot and killed by cops both white and black for doing stupid shit. See my post just a couple pages back linking to the Baltimore cop slapping the black kid. Black on black violence and I'm sure that kid in school getting bitch slapped wasn't just minding his own business. I still LOL remembering the mother bitch slapping her kid after catching him during the Baltimore riots. How many commenters supported her doing that. Finally! To many however probably encouraged their kids to go down there though or just plain didn't give a shit. They call themselves parents....sad.

 

I think many people fail to understand exactly how different that world (South Side, not Africa) is compared to white suburban America. When I mentioned stop and frisk, you immediately went to an airport pat down. That is, to my mind, the most illustrative way of proving my point possible. You went to a scenario that almost no South Side Chicago native will ever experience; they can't even afford a goddamn plane ticket, how can you even compare getting patted down at an airport to stop and frisk?

We argue situations all day long. In the end, a South Side Chicago kid knows better than to carry a gun, do drugs, rob people, participate in gang violent, skip school, run from cops, fight with cops, etc. To let them off the hook for just being in South Side Chicago is lowering the bar and giving them an excuse. Sorry but I'm not having it. Their parents know better, their communities as a whole know better, etc. There is no excuse for poor behaviors. Those behaviors and responsibility will always be on them/each of us.

 

All lives matter not just black lives. Let's see if those communities and their people actually give a shit enough to bring change from within vs crying foul when they choose not to.

[TTQ B4U]

They are predominantly black people protesting unfair racial treatment. What should they call themselves? To protest you have to be a little bit bold. If you think their name should be minority lives matter and they should take on the social injustices against native Americans, latinos, and middle easterners (other groups that feel disproportionate impact of police violence) then I agree. Otherwise this is protest 101 - your movement should clearly indicate who your group is and what they are searching to bring awareness to. It's very good marketing.

 

All Lives Matter. /the race bullshit. They don't want to end the race bullshit which is why they focus on it. This isn't 1950 or 1850 and it's not just blacks we're talking about. Poor marketing IMO but then it's no secret what they are really about. They will continually fuel the fire of race with more fuel. They get no credence from me because of that though.

 

I can't even. People don't "Hide" behind race.

what I mean by that is the tendency to play the race card in a world drowning in political correctness to a fault.

 

If you are tired of hearing a disaffected people claim inequality exists, then do something to fix the inequality, don't blame the victim for being vocal.

 

I'm not blaming the victim, I'm telling the victim they are a prisoner of their own doing more often that of others doing. Any inequality they are seeing can best be served first by them. Time for everyone to man-up.

 

This is a little despicable because it presumes that people in minority communities don't already act like decent citizens.

some do, lots don't. the latter is the focus of my beef.

 

Low income areas have more crime because they have more people in desperate situations - it is a function of economics not race.

agree.

 

But let's forget the criminals for a second - what about the regular people? Don't they deserve equal protection from law enforcement? that is what we are really talking about. Your argument about criminals should be treated like criminals as a response to BLM either presumes that the majority of other races are criminals, or that non-criminals are treated equally - neither of which is true.

My response to BLM is one of dislike for them trying to continually make race the card in play when you have already agreed with my point that it's one of economics not race. It's also their continual pointing of fingers at others vs looking at their own communities and the people within in them the actions in question that often play the major role in what they are trying to draw attention to.

 

I get pissed off when I see BLM bitching about a cop shooting a kid when that kid was born by someone who has never parented in their life, doesn't give two shits about the kid, the day after he's shot is suing the man for money and really never knew where he was at 11pm let alone having taught him a thing about social values or personal responsibility or that robbing stores, and shooting at cops or pulling a knife on them is a pretty stupid thing.

 

Careful, you are getting awfully close to advocating racially biased eugenics.

not even close. just pointing out the fact that if you can't take care of your own life then think twice about having a kid. keeping it simple my friend.

 

A self policing community is one rife with corruption.

Don't confuse corruption with common sense family values. Don't try and push the conversation there either. I'm not talking about block watch, I'm talking about communities of good people looking out for one another. I don't' think twice about telling my neighbors kid to not run int he street after a ball, nor do I bat an eye if he/she talks to my son about he importance owning up to breaking a car window by accident should it happen.

 

Who is the "they"? You can't say every protest against a societal ill is gaming the system. Also, it is a fallicy to think that the system is "equal" for everyone. We are way better than we were 50 years ago, but we aren't anywhere near system equality by a damn sight.

They is whoever you would like that isn't taking personal responsibility for their actions and instead points to others first. The mom crying foul at the cop who shot her kid who robbed a store, slapped the owner and wrestled with a cop for his gun is a fine example.

 

I've never said the system is equal. Nor will it likely ever be. That equality isn't in play for the poor bastard in the 7/11 video. It wasn't the system that knocked him out, robbed him as he lay in the street, or left him in the gutter or just casually without any care ran him over with a cab. That would be on the "them" that I speak of.

 

ok grandpa, I'll get off your lawn.

ironically the family and kids in that portion of the movie were quite responsible.

 

First off: Property ownership is not the gateway to a better life.

by house in order I mean their own life and family, not a building. Cant' tell if you're just being silly or not though.

 

There are plenty of people that earn respect and it still isn't given. the focus of BLM, which you have completely missed, is that isn't isn't about people being killed in dumbass situations, it's them being killed in non-dumbass situations which happens more often than anybody in those communities would like.

^^ really? seems like they come out of the woodwork at every opportunity not just the ones that you speak of.

[El Karacho1647545492]

Stop and frisk was based on the concept of preventing small crimes to create an atmosphere of order and lawfulness that would in turn retard more serious crimes and bad guys from hanging out there.

 

Stop and frisk is a violation of the 4th amendment.

 

Taking away the right of citizens to carry firearms was based on the concept of preventing small crimes to create an atmosphere of order and lawfulness that would in turn retard more serious crimes and bad guys from hanging out there.

 

See how inflammatory it looks when you substitute in a different form of crime mitigation. How about making a law, not just in Chicago, but nationwide, requiring citizens to disarm themselves based on the idea that if we enact a draconian, unconstitutional policy requiring citizens to disarm, that a disarmed populace will be less likely to engage in violent crime? It's absolutely a rational argument that people without guns will engage in less gun violence, but it's a core tenet of our Constitution that we have the right to keep and bear arms (which I strongly believe in).

 

And if, as you suggest, these people are not dumb and understand that a core tenet of our Constitution is that they should be free to move about their neighborhood without fear of unreasonable search and seizure, then what reason do they have to trust the authority figure(s) that have, as a matter of policy, violated that core tenet?

 

You can't compare that to an airport. You buy a plane ticket and walk into an airport with the expectation that, for security reasons, you're going to be searched for the security of those around you. You have knowingly signed that social contract before you ever set foot in that area. No one lives at an airport.

 

However, people ARE born into the culture of stop & frisk. They are born into a subjugated territory, and while I don't disagree with your assertion that people CAN and SHOULD want to and be able to break out of that cycle, my assertion is that you WILL NEVER understand what it's like to be born into that world, to grow up in that world, and face the challenges of that world. Your advice, while grounded in rationale and coming from a good place, simply does not fit into the puzzle as you intend it to because you're trying to fit a piece from your puzzle into someone else's puzzle assuming that they're putting together the same one. They're not. That's why all this talk of personal responsibility, while noble and not incorrect, doesn't apply as simply as you would like it to.

[TTQ B4U]

Your advice, while grounded in rationale and coming from a good place, simply does not fit into the puzzle as you intend it to because you're trying to fit a piece from your puzzle into someone else's puzzle assuming that they're putting together the same one. They're not. That's why all this talk of personal responsibility, while noble and not incorrect, doesn't apply as simply as you would like it to.

 

My puzzle pieces, your puzzle pieces; at the end of the day my statements around personal responsibility do stand because we are of one society and one puzzle board. Responsibility and accountability and the need for everyone to live the life of a productive citizen not a life of crime is in play no matter what community you live in or what type of family raised you. Call it incorrect if you wish and believe all you want that it doesn't apply to them but in America, it does. Time for people to begin caring for themselves and to stop living off others. Fuck the Bern.

 

I don't believe we should be giving breaks to people who come from the inner city or have to deal with different challenges day to day. Their lives don't matter more than anyone elses and vise-versa. Do they desire to be a part of a greater society or not? Are they willing to put forth what it takes to do so? Rules apply equally. Choice is theirs but so long as they remember who made that choice.

 

I'm tired of people crying foul and that shit happens to them when in return I'd much rather look at what's happening because of them. are they bringing good things to life or bad? As noted earlier, the fact that if you break the rules, you pay the consequences and that rule applies to ALL. If those same people think the problems in their life are going to fix themselves, then good luck to them as my give-o-shit meter doesn't register for them. There are no guarantees in life sorry; no life isn't fair and that's okay, but every single day people have choices and opportunity; choose wisely and work smart not just hard.

 

Let's see if that family of the 7/11 guy does anything to the actual people responsible for what happened to their son. Let's see if they actually invest any of the settlement they may get from 7/11 in anything community related.

[Geeto67]

but what's your answer? If your waiting for the government to fix your life, or provide the golden pathway to prosperity, your going to die poor (in more ways than fiscally).

How do we instill in people (white and black) the drive and desire for a better spot on this marble?

 

not sure who you were addressing but....I don't know that there is a good answer, or at least a simple one that doesn't take generations to fix. I do know that you don't get an answer by ignoring the problem and blaming the victim. The only way to find a solution is to talk about it a lot, in a way that is productive to solving the core issue, not band-aiding the symptoms as if they were independent problems. BLM has a message - if someone is committed to thinking that message is "gaming the system" then they are dismissing the societal ill.

[TTQ B4U]

I don't know that there is a good answer, or at least a simple one that doesn't take generations to fix. I do know that you don't get an answer by ignoring the problem and blaming the victim.

 

The answer is to address the people involved and I agree, do it a lot. It doesn't take generations either. Families today need to sit down and talk with one another about what they do day to day. I'm sure you do it day to day with your kids and with those around you. You don't get to an answer by not looking in the mirror first. The dude in the 7/11 video wasn't let down by the cops or 7/11. Last I checked it was the people all around him, numbers of them, that did that to him. The family here is gold digging for a settlement.

 

 

The only way to find a solution is to talk about it a lot, in a way that is productive to solving the core issue, not band-aiding the symptoms as if they were independent problems.

The core issue is family and personal values. Either people have them or as seen in the 7/11 story/video, they clearly don't. makes me wonder what those living in that community think about it. Does their give-o-shit meter register enough for them to do anything?

[Geeto67]

All Lives Matter. /the race bullshit. They don't want to end the race bullshit which is why they focus on it. This isn't 1950 or 1850 and it's not just blacks we're talking about. Poor marketing IMO but then it's no secret what they are really about. They will continually fuel the fire of race with more fuel. They get no credence from me because of that though.

 

What is the bullshit you speak of? They are a group pointing out racial inequality that affects their group. Calling it bullshit means you presume it all to be equal and they are looking for something more. It just is not equal. You say it's no secret what they are "really" about -but what is that really? what do you think they are "really about"?

 

what I mean by that is the tendency to play the race card in a world drowning in political correctness to a fault.

you can look at political correctness as a burden on your right to be socially casually racist/classist/religionist/etc without social repercussion...or you can look at it as a measure to reform public opinion in order to get people a broader world view toward people in their own town. Sometimes being politically correct is just a way of showing you are respectful of other cultures not your own.

 

 

I'm not blaming the victim, I'm telling the victim they are a prisoner of their own doing more often that of others doing. Any inequality they are seeing can best be served first by them. Time for everyone to man-up.

 

I'm pretty sure that is the definition of victim blaming. Wait, hold on I'll look it up...yup that is exactly what victim blaming is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_blaming

 

 

 

some do, lots don't. the latter is the focus of my beef.

Actually Lots do. few don't. Not every black community is made up primarily of criminals.

 

 

 

My response to BLM is one of dislike for them trying to continually make race the card in play when you have already agreed with my point that it's one of economics not race. It's also their continual pointing of fingers at others vs looking at their own communities and the people within in them the actions in question that often play the major role in what they are trying to draw attention to.

 

Economics is the root cause, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a disparate impact on race. That disparate impact is the result of 100s of years of action on the part of one racial group by another and it is going to take 100s of years to unwind. There are people still alive today who remember segregation - the wound is still fresh, but it won't heal if we stop applying salve.

 

 

I get pissed off when I see BLM bitching about a cop shooting a kid when that kid was born by someone who has never parented in their life, doesn't give two shits about the kid, the day after he's shot is suing the man for money and really never knew where he was at 11pm let alone having taught him a thing about social values or personal responsibility or that robbing stores, and shooting at cops or pulling a knife on them is a pretty stupid thing.

 

This is really judgemental and not based on facts or reality. Some people are born into good environments and still go bad, some people are not. Assuming that everyone is that way because of bad parenting is not based in any reality - it's just your perception and you are generalizing.

 

 

just pointing out the fact that if you can't take care of your own life then think twice about having a kid. keeping it simple my friend.

yes but it is that kind of "keeping it simple" that led to castration of prisoners in this country and many others. It's when people start asking what's the government going to do about their simple thinking that leads to it.

 

Don't confuse corruption with common sense family values. Don't try and push the conversation there either.

 

Don't ignore human nature. First off the world does not share your "common sense family values", maybe there are some universal commonalities but there there are just as many differences and different interpretations. So you are not even talking about something that is a real standard. The world does not live by your values, get over it. that's one of the great freedoms of being an American is my family values don't have to be the same as yours.

 

 

 

They is whoever you would like that isn't taking personal responsibility for their actions and instead points to others first. The mom crying foul at the cop who shot her kid who robbed a store, slapped the owner and wrestled with a cop for his gun is a fine example.

 

ugh. That is not a fine example because it does not exist. Show me that scenario. Right now. Go find 1 actual case where the parents sued for wrongful death and were successful because their kid was killed because he was reaching for a cops gun. You have to have all the elements. Go.

 

 

 

by house in order I mean their own life and family, not a building. Cant' tell if you're just being silly or not though.

 

I'm being a little silly because it's a silly proposition. This is a "everyone must live a certain way" kind of bullshit that that has plagued mankind for centuries and is usually right behind some racial or religious purge like the Spanish inquisition or the crusades.

 

^^ really? seems like they come out of the woodwork at every opportunity not just the ones that you speak of.

 

Well that's just like your opinion man....because you can't really see it from their side. Also it is still a movement and it thrives on press.

[Geeto67]

Families today need to sit down and talk with one another about what they do day to day. I'm sure you do it day to day with your kids and with those around you. You don't get to an answer by not looking in the mirror first.

 

That's nice and idealistic and all, but how are you going to change people's behavior. Where is the actual solution?

 

The dude in the 7/11 video wasn't let down by the cops or 7/11. Last I checked it was the people all around him, numbers of them, that did that to him. The family here is gold digging for a settlement.

 

Life is full of disappointment. for instance, I am disappointed that you seem to have distilled a family's sense of loss, grief, and outrage into "gold digging". You are assuming that they didn't love him and let him down in some way, and your "proof" is that they are suing. ugh.

 

 

The core issue is family and personal values. Either people have them or as seen in the 7/11 story/video, they clearly don't. makes me wonder what those living in that community think about it. Does their give-o-shit meter register enough for them to do anything?

 

 

That is not even close to the core issue. that is what you think a partial solution without any real implementation plan looks like.

[TTQ B4U]

What is the bullshit you speak of? They are a group pointing out racial inequality that affects their group. You say it's no secret what they are "really" about -but what is that really? what do you think they are "really about"?

 

I think I noted it already that they don't address the real issues. They focus on is creating drama around race but they skirt the real issues of responsibility of anyone else but authority figures.

 

you can look at political correctness as a burden on your right to be socially casually racist/classist/religionist/etc without social repercussion...or you can look at it as a measure to reform public opinion in order to get people a broader world view toward people in their own town. Sometimes being politically correct is just a way of showing you are respectful of other cultures not your own.

 

Double standards in play...they get to play the race card but I'm casually racist if I call them out or just be blunt. Sorry but no, they haven't earned my respect. Once they address the actions of those committing the crimes in all those situations they march on then perhaps they will. Until then I will see them as whiners unwilling to address both sides of the fact. Always a finger to point at authority but never at the reason the authorities were called out. That's cowardly if you ask me.

 

I'm pretty sure that is the definition of victim blaming. Wait, hold on I'll look it up...yup that is exactly what victim blaming is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_blaming

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_blaming][/url]

 

this isn't a case of blaming a girl for being raped for looking hot. Sorry but inner city punks committing felonies and fighting with cops win the prizes they deserve. Let's not stray from reality here. Again, the 7/11 victim wasn't killed by other "victims" who then get to walk. He was let down by ALL those people yet not surprisingly the family is going to go after the store with for money.

 

Actually Lots do. few don't. Not every black community is made up primarily of criminals.

 

would agree but it depends on the particular section of the block in those communities too. there is still the role of the community and each member of it in those areas. more need to stand up and do something vs just sitting back and playing the victim card.

 

Economics is the root cause, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a disparate impact on race. That disparate impact is the result of 100s of years of action on the part of one racial group by another and it is going to take 100s of years to unwind. There are people still alive today who remember segregation - the wound is still fresh, but it won't heal if we stop applying salve.

 

You're right economics is the root cause. Drug dealers have to care for their families and those families aren't doing anything about what they know is happening. I agree and for the last time, color doesn't matter and since we agree on that point, tear up the race card already. No need to keep trying to play it. We can agree to disagree on the segregation thing. That was over 60 years ago. Even my father when he was alive had moved past that. Move on.

 

This is really judgemental and not based on facts or reality. Some people are born into good environments and still go bad, some people are not. Assuming that everyone is that way because of bad parenting is not based in any reality - it's just your perception and you are generalizing.

 

It's not judgemental. I read the stories and cases. They chase after inflammatory situations and cases without looking at the facts. I'm generalizing around the bad guys not all guys. That kid who was shot 18 times carrying a knife....that's the case I'm referencing. I agree, the cop was out of line with 18 rounds. Cop brought that upon himself. However, not one word was brought up about the fuck-stick kid and his parents who did nothing but cry lawsuit then settled for $6M and disappeared. I hate even calling them parents given they never parented that kid. The kid was a victim of shitty parents not the cops.

 

yes but it is that kind of "keeping it simple" that led to castration of prisoners in this country and many others. It's when people start asking what's the government going to do about their simple thinking that leads to it.

 

Why mention castration when all it takes is two people to actually make a sound decision just to not have a fucking kid. Hmmm.....I'm dirt poor, so are you, let's bang and make babies. Great idea!! People bring shit upon themselves. I know you know what I'm talking about. Let's not be silly pretending otherwise.

 

Don't ignore human nature. First off the world does not share your "common sense family values", maybe there are some universal commonalities but there there are just as many differences and different interpretations.

 

they don't have to share my common sense family values or the values of others in the community; clearly many don't. However, there are expectations society has of them and they own those regardless. Want to have 6 kids from 3 daddies, living in the ghetto and not parent any of them, then don't go expecting them to raise themselves to be productive citizens because history and numbers show they will likely end up in jail or dead. When that happens maybe those same people should remember the choices they made the moment they conceived that kid.

 

So you are not even talking about something that is a real standard. The world does not live by your values, get over it. that's one of the great freedoms of being an American is my family values don't have to be the same as yours.

 

I agree. Again, not asking anyone to live by my values....just own up and OWN the choices THEY make in life. That's all; pretty simple. They can raise their kids as their wish, but if those kids grow up to be a punk and get shot by the cops, they best look in the mirror before they say a fucking word about blaming anyone.

 

Go find 1 actual case where the parents sued for wrongful death and were successful because their kid was killed because he was reaching for a cops gun. You have to have all the elements. Go.

 

not sure where you pulled wrongful death from but in the case of Ferguson, that kid won the stupid prize he was going for in the dumb version of life he was living.

 

I'm being a little silly because it's a silly proposition. This is a "everyone must live a certain way" kind of bullshit that that has plagued mankind for centuries and is usually right behind some racial or religious purge like the Spanish inquisition or the crusades.

 

well in America we do have some pretty liberal social views and the right to live as we wish. Great, I am not stating any one way anyone needs to live but regardless of how people choose to live I stand by the fact that I do very strong support the statement that THEY need to OWN the choices THEY make. Want to live a gangster life then be prepared to live that life right up until you die.

 

Well that's just like your opinion man....because you can't really see it from their side. Also it is still a movement and it thrives on press.

 

I see it from their side......it's all one-sided. They choose to avoid the responsibility of those on all but one side of the argument. Pretty clear really.