RC K9 Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 I don't really follow subaru's, but looks like they are going to be using a DI FA20. My understanding is people aren't big fans of the EJ. Forgive my ignorance and need for enlightenment...but from a technical standpoint, what advantages does the FA20 have over the EJ? http://www.topspeed.com/cars/subaru/2018-subaru-wrx-sti-ar172865.html#main Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 WRX has had a FA20 since 2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 WRX has had a FA20 since 2015. oh really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 No replacement for displacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grudes Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 The FA20 is Direct Injected as opposed to the EJ motor. It also uses a twin scoll turbo for a broader torque curve and equal length exhaust manifolds. Good for performance but kiss the boxer rumble good bye. Its been in the standard WRX since 15 and the STi Spec is supposed to come out in 2018 with ~323Bhp More info here - https://www.facebook.com/SUBARU-TECNICA-INTERNATIONAL-128303837198314/?pnref=story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 are the subie's having engine coking problems with the DI engines like audi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grudes Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 are the subie's having engine coking problems with the DI engines like audi? You mean carbon problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99StockGT Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 There are definitely some issues with them so far, but it's a new platform with bugs to be worked out. The EJ series has been around essentially since the beginning of the millennium so they've had plenty of time to work out most of ITS weaknesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 And reimplement some weaknesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs.cos Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 This isn't happening. It wa a concept that's been making the rounds and is just that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 You mean carbon problems? yes, that is what engine coking is - a buildup of carbon. Been hearing that the valves are having a tougher time with carbon buildup now that the backs of them are not getting hit with atomized fuel. It's a DI problem but some makes/models are having a harder go of it than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grudes Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 yes, that is what engine coking is - a buildup of carbon. Been hearing that the valves are having a tougher time with carbon buildup now that the backs of them are not getting hit with atomized fuel. It's a DI problem but some makes/models are having a harder go of it than others. Yea GM has that problem too. Carbon builds up on the back of the intake valves and also causes the piston rings to stick. Seems to be a problem with DI engines in general. At some point they will need de-carbed or uncoked whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littleguy Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 I wonder why they don't use direct injection and port injection since they have the system on the BRZ/FRS version of the FA20. I know my LS460 uses Toyota's D-4S technology and there are no issues with carbon buildup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigOxley Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 I'm not convinced by this article. There's a lot of speculation in it. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the killed off the STI. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dammit Charlie Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 It seems odd to me that an OEM wouldn't use some type of auxiliary fuel injector during parts throttle to help reduce this issue. Hell, I wonder if a centrifuge PCV filter would even work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airwg2189 Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 There are definitely some issues with them so far, but it's a new platform with bugs to be worked out. The EJ series has been around essentially since the beginning of the millennium so they've had plenty of time to work out most of ITS weaknesses. Yet the EJ257 still has an absurdly high failure rate. Ringland 4... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grudes Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 Yet the EJ257 still has an absurdly high failure rate. Ringland 4... Partly because people push them so hard. Still I am surprised Subaru never tweaked the EJ257 very much. They added Dual AVCS and that was about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99StockGT Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 Yet the EJ257 still has an absurdly high failure rate. Ringland 4... Aside from the All Mighty LS what other platform do you see people squeezing out double the stock HP with no issues on internals? Most (of course not all) Subarus that have either ringland or detonation issue are due to modifications that people skimp on the support (read : tuning) I have no less than 5 EJ motors sitting here right now, 3 of them destroyed. 1 was due to a timing belt that was 30,000 miles past due.. something Subaru owners are notorious about. And 2 are from over boost/lean out/detonation issues. There certainly are known issues with the EJ series, and it is odd that a platform they have had around for SO long in one form or another didn't get further tweaked but if done right and MAINTAINED they aren't bad. At least, not any more so than other small displacement big power platforms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigOxley Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 Correctly tuned EJ257 are stout. The fastest internally stock ran a 9.XX 1/4 mile at 30+ lbs of boost. Made +800whp on the dyno before they built the engine. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltboostin Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 Aside from the All Mighty LS what other platform do you see people squeezing out double the stock HP with no issues on internals? Most (of course not all) Subarus that have either ringland or detonation issue are due to modifications that people skimp on the support (read : tuning) 4G63 AnyJz Any Honda B series Any F Series Honda Any Nissan VQ Fuck, even a Vanilla Ice 5.0 will double HP and live forever, but 3x may split the block. With modern turbo and fueling tech, I dont see doubling HP as a feat anymore to be honest. I've been saying it since 2005 and seeing what J Shreck was going through while we were both competing at IFO, I would NEVER build a Subaru or try to push one in stock trim. Junk is Junk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 hayabusa - although if you are going for 400hp (which is more than twice the 175hp stock rating) you need pistons and rods (crank can stay stock though as can the cases, gearbox, etc). Stupid question: what is the timing belt service on a subaru EJ engine? Is it 100K and people are just blowing past that or is it sooner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airwg2189 Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 Aside from the All Mighty LS what other platform do you see people squeezing out double the stock HP with no issues on internals? Most (of course not all) Subarus that have either ringland or detonation issue are due to modifications that people skimp on the support (read : tuning) I have no less than 5 EJ motors sitting here right now, 3 of them destroyed. 1 was due to a timing belt that was 30,000 miles past due.. something Subaru owners are notorious about. And 2 are from over boost/lean out/detonation issues. There certainly are known issues with the EJ series, and it is odd that a platform they have had around for SO long in one form or another didn't get further tweaked but if done right and MAINTAINED they aren't bad. At least, not any more so than other small displacement big power platforms. Any Subaru enthusiast knows damn well that those motors blow up bone stock for no apparent reason, at a rate much higher than should be acceptable. Mileage absolutely irrelevant. Now, I understand that things happen, motors pop, but it's literally the exact same issue, every single time. That's the problem. They've had ringland 4 horror stories for a decade, yet still haven't fixed it. I love Subarus, but the EJ is NOT a reliable motor in any facet of the word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigOxley Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 Any Subaru enthusiast knows damn well that those motors blow up bone stock for no apparent reason, at a rate much higher than should be acceptable. Mileage absolutely irrelevant. Now, I understand that things happen, motors pop, but it's literally the exact same issue, every single time. That's the problem. They've had ringland 4 horror stories for a decade, yet still haven't fixed it. I love Subarus, but the EJ is NOT a reliable motor in any facet of the word. The engines are fine. A lot of tunes are shit, even factory ones. Bad gas and bad tunes are the reasons for most of the failures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99StockGT Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 I love Subarus, but the EJ is NOT a reliable motor in any facet of the word. Oh I dunno about that, you can pretty well count on the ringland blowing and/or total engine destruction when the timing belt isn't taken care of And don't you bring up the bulletproof days of Honda motors into this conversation, that's just simply not fair! As for the 4G63s I believe I've heard a number of horror stories about crank walks and other such constant issues.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC K9 Posted August 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 Oh I dunno about that, you can pretty well count on the ringland blowing and/or total engine destruction when the timing belt isn't taken care of And don't you bring up the bulletproof days of Honda motors into this conversation, that's just simply not fair! As for the 4G63s I believe I've heard a number of horror stories about crank walks and other such constant issues.. 7 bolt non-split thrust blocks on manual cars, yes. 6 bolts and late model 7 bolts...not so much, in fact hardly ever. Stock 6 bolt came with like 190hp. You can easily double that and have no issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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