88lx5oh Posted May 24, 2017 Report Share Posted May 24, 2017 I got a speeding ticket a few weeks ago on rt33, they got me by plane. The state trooper in the car that pulled me over couldn't show me proof of speed, and told me they do it by stopwatch. I went to court today and plead not guilty. I was reading up on a few things, and am I wrong is is it state law to have signs posted that speed is enforced by aircraft? I have never contested a speeding ticket before, but relying on a person with a stopwatch for accuracy just rubs me the wrong way. I have a few topics I'll bring up in court, but anyone have any other advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE-O Posted May 24, 2017 Report Share Posted May 24, 2017 Were you speeding? If so pay the ticket and move on. If you were not speeding ask for what proof they have that claims you were and if they can not provide anything you will walk free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robochan Posted May 24, 2017 Report Share Posted May 24, 2017 Airplane gas is expensive. We can't run this police state if you don't pay your ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Posted May 24, 2017 Report Share Posted May 24, 2017 Interesting article in car and driver, they flew along with Ohio State Patrol and interviewed the pilot. Gives a lot of info on what they do, how they measure the speed and other stuff. http://www.caranddriver.com/features/busted-from-cloud-nine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted May 24, 2017 Report Share Posted May 24, 2017 I got a speeding ticket a few weeks ago on rt33, they got me by plane. The state trooper in the car that pulled me over couldn't show me proof of speed, and told me they do it by stopwatch. I went to court today and plead not guilty. I was reading up on a few things, and am I wrong is is it state law to have signs posted that speed is enforced by aircraft? I have never contested a speeding ticket before, but relying on a person with a stopwatch for accuracy just rubs me the wrong way. I have a few topics I'll bring up in court, but anyone have any other advice? Have they offered a plea? Often they will and it is a reduction to the point where you won't get points, and to me it's worth it to just take it and run - you pay a fee, your insurance doesn't go up, and you save a ton of time. Traffic courts tend to be kangaroo courts - you just aren't going to convince a judge the state is acting wrongly even if they are, so a deal is your way of buying yourself out of losing the time to lose at trial. I can't speak on whether they are required to have signs or not, but let me ask you this: did the stretch of road have the painted lines on it (the start and finish lines?) or not? Personally I think that speed monitoring by aircraft is one of the least reliable ways to measure speeding there is because of the numerous points of operator error and well...basic science. First off Police use a system called VASCAR, Visual Average Speed Computer And Recorder, and it is just a stopwatch coupled to a simple computer. The unit looks like this: http://www.vascarplus.com/Pages/VASCAR3c.jpg Right away should be your first clue as to how "accurate" this system is - Average. It can only calculate an average speed, it isn't taking an actual measurement of speed it's measuring how much time it takes for you to cover a specific distance. The specific distance is measured by those lines painted on the roadway (which is why I asked if there were lines painted on the road before) and the officer clicks on when you pass the start line and clicks off when you hit the finish line. So there is your second clue as to how accurate it is: if the pilot keyed the start of the measurement late (say when your back tires crossed the start line) and terminated it early (when your front wheels crossed the finish line) then you will have a higher average speed reading than if he keyed it when your front wheels crossed the start line and finish line. At this point you must be thinking - well how hard is it to get that wrong...well remember they are doing this from an giant metal bird moving about 100-130mph (cruse speed for a cessna 172), so they may have different perspectives on the car as it runs the course. Assuming they can keep visual contact with the car at all times (i.e. there aren't trees in the way or heavy traffic with similarly colored cars). Here is a great mathematical breakdown as to how normal reaction time can create a 33mph discrepancy: http://travel.3dresearch.com/prep1.html Were you speeding? If so pay the ticket and move on. If you were not speeding ask for what proof they have that claims you were and if they can not provide anything you will walk free Contesting the speeding ticket holds the police accountable for their actions. If everyone contested these speed enforced by aircraft tickets they wouldn't do it anymore because of low ROI. It's 1966 technology that hasn't improved any in the last 50 years and it's wildly inaccurate, but people are bullied by the state into paying it because of the hassle of the court system and the the lie that aircraft enforcement is somehow more accurate when it is literally the least accurate way to measure speed still in use. If the state want's to make allegations against you make them prove it - the only reason they continue to get away with this nonsense is because people pay this without fighting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 Sweet Posted May 24, 2017 Report Share Posted May 24, 2017 Were you speeding? If so pay the ticket and move on. Fuck that. Might as well bend over and take it up the ass from the state of Ohio. How fucked is it that we have god damned airplanes for the sole purpose of writing speeding tickets? That's absurd. Speeding tickets are already bullshit as it is without the cameras and aircraft. Next thing you know there will be police drones every mile on the highway and anyone who speeds will get a ticket in the mail the next day. Aircraft enforced speeding. What a fucking scam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Karacho1647545492 Posted May 24, 2017 Report Share Posted May 24, 2017 Either hire a lawyer or pay the fine. "Every man who is his own lawyer, has a fool for a client." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted May 24, 2017 Report Share Posted May 24, 2017 How fucked is it that we have god damned airplanes for the sole purpose of writing speeding tickets? That's absurd. well to be fair, police aircraft have a lot of other uses beyond speed enforcement that are pretty great: ground support, search and rescue, high-speed car pursuits, observation, air patrol and control of large-scale public events and/or public order incidents are all pretty legitimate uses for them....however, they are too infrequent to justify the cost of employing full time pilots, plus aircraft, plus mechanics to maintain the aircraft, so they end up tapping into the cash cow that is speed enforcement. There is a reason why Ohio is #1 for writing speeding tickets consistently, because we let them get away with bullshit like inaccurate enforcement methods by not fighting the tickets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 Sweet Posted May 24, 2017 Report Share Posted May 24, 2017 It just irks me that this kind of shit is legal. I'm not blaming the cops, as most that I personally know won't write a speeding ticket unless someone really deserves it. But people in general suck at driving, and there's 50 other offenses before speeding that happen everywhere at all times that go completely overlooked. People can be terrible drivers, completely ignorant of their surroundings, but as long as they don't go 67 in a 60 they are OK! Look at how cars have evolved in the past 30-40 years, yet the speed limits remain unchanged for the most part. Cars can stop twice as fast, maneuver much better, and are WAY safer. How many accidents can you point to and say "well golly, he caused that accident because he was going 77, if they were only going 74 it wouldn't have happened" But they know they can fly some plane around and expect people to pay $150 tickets for just driving around not harming anything. Shits weak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 Sweet Posted May 24, 2017 Report Share Posted May 24, 2017 There is a reason why Ohio is #1 for writing speeding tickets consistently, because we let them get away with bullshit like inaccurate enforcement methods by not fighting the tickets. Truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitgeist57 Posted May 24, 2017 Report Share Posted May 24, 2017 I got busted by "Hotel Papa" a couple of years ago, but the OSHP trooper on the ground singled me out in a rush-hour group and pulled me over because I was tailgating the witch in front of me in the '90s Grand Cherokee with pink Browning deer and Roxy stickers on the back glass. No speeding, but tailgating. I ended up paying the $75 ticket as I didn't get any points on my license. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Bastard Posted May 24, 2017 Report Share Posted May 24, 2017 Just curious, would the officer and the pilot both have to appear in court? I know in ohio that if the officer that cited you doesn't show uo to court it can be thrown out, but since the officer that wrote the ticket would be your accuser, so wouldn't the pilot, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truckin Posted May 24, 2017 Report Share Posted May 24, 2017 its the chance you take if going over the speed limit. We all know what the limit posted is and we all know their out their writing tickets. Suck it up and own it. I've been ticketed and was in the wrong I knew I was speeding, was I pissed yes, but paid it called myself a Dumbass and moved on with my life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Karacho1647545492 Posted May 24, 2017 Report Share Posted May 24, 2017 CR on government regarding taxes, guns, property, and social services: "FUCK YOU I WON'T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME, POWER TO THE PEOPLE, DOWN WITH TYRANNY" CR on speeding tickets: "you were speeding, pay up, fagit" :lolguy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Nice Posted May 24, 2017 Report Share Posted May 24, 2017 We all know what the limit posted is and we all know their out their writing tickets. I have never seen someone use the same version of "there/their/they're" in the same sentence and have both of them be completely incorrect. Impressive. We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted May 24, 2017 Report Share Posted May 24, 2017 its the chance you take if going over the speed limit. We all know what the limit posted is do you? I mean really, have you ever looked into how inaccurate non-emergency vehicle speedometers are? The old mechanical speedometers used a resistance spring working against magnetic force, so your accuracy was the spring rate. The were pessimistic at low speeds and optimistic at mid-higher speeds, modern ones use variable reluctance magnetic sensor to generate a sine wave that is then electronically fed to the speedometer. It is more accurate but now mfg's can program them to be continuously optimistic with the variance growing the faster you go. So point is, you looking at your speedometer is not an accurate reading, it's a best guess. And then there are all the "tricks" certain counties will put in place just to trip people up, like lowered speed limits for small sections that only require one sign that is easy to miss: http://jalopnik.com/an-ohio-town-made-millions-from-speed-cameras-but-now-i-1792482681 Don't think for a second any of this crap is accurate and the government is playing fair with it. The government knows you aren't paying attention, they know your speedometer is inaccurate and their equipment is slightly more accurate, they know you don't know when their shit is inaccurate, and they know you like to pay your way out of a hassle = millions of dollars in revenue to them. and we all know their out their writing tickets. Suck it up and own it. I've been ticketed and was in the wrong I knew I was speeding, was I pissed yes, but paid it called myself a Dumbass and moved on with my life. This is a great way for you to live your life, but there are many others who don't agree and don't want to be taken advantage of by a system that is stacked against the motorist and exploited by the government from the state to the local level. In other words, good for you for paying the fine, but shame on you for trying to morally shame those who prefer to fight an unfair system. Maybe we should just call speeding tickets, tax collection and then CR will rage against it, LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted May 24, 2017 Report Share Posted May 24, 2017 You have three options, 1 good, 1 meh, 1 fail. You have plead not guilty so now the Officer who issued the citation has to show up to court. If he does not show up, you get off no ticket just your time. You have plead not guilty, you can plead with the court for a reduction to no points and a reduced fine, worked for me twice. You can fight it, and you will loose, get the points, and pay the fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ls1plus Posted May 24, 2017 Report Share Posted May 24, 2017 That is a chickenshit way to give tickets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyM3rC Posted May 24, 2017 Report Share Posted May 24, 2017 Well, the asshole .gov restricted our 2nd amendment so we can't buy any effective anti-air at the local drugstore... so you'll have to get em either taking off, or landing I expect. Unless you can find a respray shop nearby, that will get rid of a few stars for cheap Fight it legally the best way you can, with the sleaziest shitbag lawyer that will bring personal ruin to all enforcement individuals or you know, get it dropped. Then run for office, write your representatives, or fight back however you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Nice Posted May 24, 2017 Report Share Posted May 24, 2017 Fight it legally the best way you can, Cameras and a speaker that emits annoying sounds? with the sleaziest shitbag lawyer... ...I may have a suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillbot Posted May 24, 2017 Report Share Posted May 24, 2017 http://www.morningjournalnews.com/news/local-news/2017/02/east-liverpool-approves-traffic-cams/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiek2000 Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 Weren't traffic cams deemed illegal in the state of Ohio? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Nice Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 Weren't traffic cams deemed illegal in the state of Ohio? Traffic cams != dude looking out of an aircraft with a stopwatch in his hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 They must be cracking down in general, or maybe specifically on 33. I just got a ticket for 80 in a 70 on 33 between Columbus & Marysville. I think that's my first speeding ticket commuting on that stretch of road for 12 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillbot Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 Weren't traffic cams deemed illegal in the state of Ohio? Traffic cams != dude looking out of an aircraft with a stopwatch in his hand. He was probably referring to my link. They just started using speed cameras over here recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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