Otis Nice Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 He was probably referring to my link. They just started using speed cameras over here recently. Ah. I didn't see that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmrmnhrm Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 Weren't traffic cams deemed illegal in the state of Ohio? Possibly/probably, because one town up in Cleveland (Newburgh Heights, I think) has taken an interesting tact... they put a cop in a lawn chair on a bridge over I-77. Gets a photo of your car, laser speed reading, and a living-breathing officer running the whole show, not a robot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Nice Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 Possibly/probably, because one town up in Cleveland (Newburgh Heights, I think) has taken an interesting tact... they put a cop in a lawn chair on a bridge over I-77. Gets a photo of your car, laser speed reading, and a living-breathing officer running the whole show, not a robot. I want that job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotCarl Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 I fought a ticket a few years ago. The CPD officer did not show up to court, the prosecutor knew this and offered a plea deal of "state speed" (which apparently is recorded as 1 mph over the limit if I remember correctly), no points and a 50$ fine. I obviously said no because she was trying to stall until the officer arrived. We go before the judge, i explained my case the judge looks at me and says something to the effect of, "you don't know, officers these days are highly trained and can tell when someone is speeding just by observing them on the highway, i suggest you reconsider the plea deal." I was fucking dumbfounded. I took the deal, plus paid court costs that equaled $45, in total I was out roughly 3 hours, and $95. I think the ticket itself was $140. But I didn't receive any points. This all happened like 10+ years ago so some of the details are a bit blurry. My friend got a speeding ticket via OSHP aircraft 3 years ago when we were all coming back from rafting in west virginia. I thought it was the shittiest scam. Absolutely no way to confirm it was his car but after all a black Accord can't be that common right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mensan Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 Right away should be your first clue as to how "accurate" this system is - Average. It can only calculate an average speed, it isn't taking an actual measurement of speed it's measuring how much time it takes for you to cover a specific distance. The specific distance is measured by those lines painted on the roadway (which is why I asked if there were lines painted on the road before) and the officer clicks on when you pass the start line and clicks off when you hit the finish line. Human error aside, this application of the mean-value-theorem works in favor of the consumer. This method can only find the minimum average speed that the person could possibly have been traveling at that time, rather than the top speed they achieved, which is almost certainly higher than the average. As I said, human error aside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 Human error aside, this application of the mean-value-theorem works in favor of the consumer. This method can only find the minimum average speed that the person could possibly have been traveling at that time, rather than the top speed they achieved, which is almost certainly higher than the average. As I said, human error aside. Absolutely true. However the human element is a huge part of it because the human is the measuring device. Reaction time error usually favors the officer. In Radar the measuring device is the Doppler effect using a narrow band radio signal and in LIDAR the measuring device is pulse light laser. The human error is limited to positioning (stationary radar requires being to the side of the road and slightly higher than the vehicle, Lidar must be aimed so the car is heading in a straight line directly toward the beam). All require visual contact contact with the target. The only other advantags to VASCAR over radar or Lidar is that it can be operated in marginally bad weather conditions and around curves in the road. Mist, snow, fog, or light rain will interfere with Lidar and Radar because the signal can hit the water droplets in the air and throw back an inaccurate reading. Lidar bouncing off the side of a body panel instead of off a fixed point on the front of the vehicle can be thrown off as well, it needs a fixed point on the front of the vehicle to bounce back off of to measure rate of change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truckin Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 I have never seen someone use the same version of "there/their/they're" in the same sentence and have both of them be completely incorrect. Impressive. We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread. Yep I've never been good at that. do you? I mean really, have you ever looked into how inaccurate non-emergency vehicle speedometers are? The old mechanical speedometers used a resistance spring working against magnetic force, so your accuracy was the spring rate. The were pessimistic at low speeds and optimistic at mid-higher speeds, modern ones use variable reluctance magnetic sensor to generate a sine wave that is then electronically fed to the speedometer. It is more accurate but now mfg's can program them to be continuously optimistic with the variance growing the faster you go. So point is, you looking at your speedometer is not an accurate reading, it's a best guess. And then there are all the "tricks" certain counties will put in place just to trip people up, like lowered speed limits for small sections that only require one sign that is easy to miss: http://jalopnik.com/an-ohio-town-made-millions-from-speed-cameras-but-now-i-1792482681 Don't think for a second any of this crap is accurate and the government is playing fair with it. The government knows you aren't paying attention, they know your speedometer is inaccurate and their equipment is slightly more accurate, they know you don't know when their shit is inaccurate, and they know you like to pay your way out of a hassle = millions of dollars in revenue to them. This is a great way for you to live your life, but there are many others who don't agree and don't want to be taken advantage of by a system that is stacked against the motorist and exploited by the government from the state to the local level. In other words, good for you for paying the fine, but shame on you for trying to morally shame those who prefer to fight an unfair system. Maybe we should just call speeding tickets, tax collection and then CR will rage against it, LOL. So your blaming it on an inaccurate speedo? I've had plenty of old vehicles 1 I still drive regularly (1984) and have never had an issue figuring out how fast I should be going. You can easily judge that by flow of traffic it's not that difficult. Your thought process of fighting the " system" is a bit skewed in your statement. If your speeding and get caught how are you being taken advantage of or exploited? Your in the wrong. Because you don't like aircraft aiding Law enforcement? Take it to court get an attorney pay him as well take your chance. Pay the ticket admit your guilt and move on. I could careless. CR people crack me up. Always right never wrong. It's comical I'm gonna throw you guys a bone and let you tear it up without interference. My gift! I'm too old and got better things to do then debate on the web. I know you all will tear me up that's fine as I won't see it. No hard feelings. I'm just moving on. Good luck to everyone and your families please be safe! And I Truly wish you all the best !! Goodbye CR Mods please close my account Again be safe CR!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 They must be cracking down in general, or maybe specifically on 33. I just got a ticket for 80 in a 70 on 33 between Columbus & Marysville. I think that's my first speeding ticket commuting on that stretch of road for 12 years. Put the cruise on 77-78 and use Waze. Social media is a powerful thing. Way more reliable than most anything I've used. I start Waze every single time I'm on the freeway and am an active user. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkas Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 Yep I've never been good at that. So your blaming it on an inaccurate speedo? I've had plenty of old vehicles 1 I still drive regularly (1984) and have never had an issue figuring out how fast I should be going. You can easily judge that by flow of traffic it's not that difficult. Your thought process of fighting the " system" is a bit skewed in your statement. If your speeding and get caught how are you being taken advantage of or exploited? Your in the wrong. Because you don't like aircraft aiding Law enforcement? Take it to court get an attorney pay him as well take your chance. Pay the ticket admit your guilt and move on. I could careless. CR people crack me up. Always right never wrong. It's comical I'm gonna throw you guys a bone and let you tear it up without interference. My gift! I'm too old and got better things to do then debate on the web. I know you all will tear me up that's fine as I won't see it. No hard feelings. I'm just moving on. Good luck to everyone and your families please be safe! And I Truly wish you all the best !! Goodbye CR Mods please close my account Again be safe CR!! You pretty much summed up Kerry. He fucking loves to hear/see himself talk and will debate anything until he's blue in the face, even if he's clueless of the topic he spouts off about. Just block him like the rest of us and move on with life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 May as well fight it. The gamble and related costs even if you lose are less than what you'll spend at a Casino and the odds are far more in your favor in court than a Casino. Last ticket I got was up there enough in speed that they charged me with Wreckless. Plead down to 2pts and $125. Ticket forgiveness from good insurance and I was out about 2hrs of my time at the above amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStowers023 Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 Maybe we should just call speeding tickets, tax collection and then CR will rage against it, LOL. It pretty much is. I have a buddy who is a cop and 95% of his job was writing speeding tickets. Poor justification to employ police officers. Less police, better training, more pay. I'd be completely okay with that, but employing police to mostly enforce speeding is a complete joke and unjustified IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBQdDude Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 Have they offered a plea? Often they will and it is a reduction to the point where you won't get points, and to me it's worth it to just take it and run - you pay a fee, your insurance doesn't go up, and you save a ton of time. Actually, learn from my mistake please. Do NOT accept a no points reduction. Have them make it a non moving violation. Otherwise your insurance will go up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 Actually, learn from my mistake please. Do NOT accept a no points reduction. Have them make it a non moving violation. Otherwise your insurance will go up. you are right, I should have mentioned that, usually when the offer the deal it's an non moving equipment violation that comes close to the dollar amount of the speeding violation, but every once in a while they offer a speed violation with no points (under 10mph) which can be reported to insurance and may affect rates. If they offer you the reduced speed ask them to change it - they may or may not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC K9 Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 Have they offered a plea? Often they will and it is a reduction to the point where you won't get points, and to me it's worth it to just take it and run - you pay a fee, your insurance doesn't go up, and you save a ton of time. Traffic courts tend to be kangaroo courts - you just aren't going to convince a judge the state is acting wrongly even if they are, so a deal is your way of buying yourself out of losing the time to lose at trial. I can't speak on whether they are required to have signs or not, but let me ask you this: did the stretch of road have the painted lines on it (the start and finish lines?) or not? Personally I think that speed monitoring by aircraft is one of the least reliable ways to measure speeding there is because of the numerous points of operator error and well...basic science. First off Police use a system called VASCAR, Visual Average Speed Computer And Recorder, and it is just a stopwatch coupled to a simple computer. The unit looks like this: http://www.vascarplus.com/Pages/VASCAR3c.jpg Right away should be your first clue as to how "accurate" this system is - Average. It can only calculate an average speed, it isn't taking an actual measurement of speed it's measuring how much time it takes for you to cover a specific distance. The specific distance is measured by those lines painted on the roadway (which is why I asked if there were lines painted on the road before) and the officer clicks on when you pass the start line and clicks off when you hit the finish line. So there is your second clue as to how accurate it is: if the pilot keyed the start of the measurement late (say when your back tires crossed the start line) and terminated it early (when your front wheels crossed the finish line) then you will have a higher average speed reading than if he keyed it when your front wheels crossed the start line and finish line. At this point you must be thinking - well how hard is it to get that wrong...well remember they are doing this from an giant metal bird moving about 100-130mph (cruse speed for a cessna 172), so they may have different perspectives on the car as it runs the course. Assuming they can keep visual contact with the car at all times (i.e. there aren't trees in the way or heavy traffic with similarly colored cars). Here is a great mathematical breakdown as to how normal reaction time can create a 33mph discrepancy: http://travel.3dresearch.com/prep1.html Contesting the speeding ticket holds the police accountable for their actions. If everyone contested these speed enforced by aircraft tickets they wouldn't do it anymore because of low ROI. It's 1966 technology that hasn't improved any in the last 50 years and it's wildly inaccurate, but people are bullied by the state into paying it because of the hassle of the court system and the the lie that aircraft enforcement is somehow more accurate when it is literally the least accurate way to measure speed still in use. If the state want's to make allegations against you make them prove it - the only reason they continue to get away with this nonsense is because people pay this without fighting it. I read through that court case. Fascinating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Nice Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 CR people crack me up. Always right never wrong. It's comical. 1) Please don't toss us all into that same, tiny, boat. 2) If you're out, later. Take care and I wish you well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted May 26, 2017 Report Share Posted May 26, 2017 So your blaming it on an inaccurate speedo? I've had plenty of old vehicles 1 I still drive regularly (1984) and have never had an issue figuring out how fast I should be going. You can easily judge that by flow of traffic it's not that difficult. I'm not blaming anything, my point which went sailing over your head, is that they do this for a living and they know how to stack it in their favor in ways you don't think about. The mfgs even cop to their speedos being inaccurate and purposely so. If all speedometers were accurate there wouldn't be a need for special calibrated and certified ones in emergency vehicles. Flow of traffic is always faster than the speed limit and is never a good defense to a speeding ticket. I've seen dozens of times where a judge has laughed in the face of a defendant making that argument, usually with the reply "everybody may have been speeding but you are the one they caught". I've never seen a single person get off a ticket solely on that argument. Pacing an emergency vehicle is also not an excuse. Your thought process of fighting the " system" is a bit skewed in your statement. If your speeding and get caught how are you being taken advantage of or exploited? Your in the wrong. I once defended a friends wife for a 55 in a 35 because an officer was sitting on the service road of a highway and shooting LIDAR up the off ramp catching vehicles decelerating off the highway and citing them. Still think you are in the wrong in that situation if you get a ticket? I have seen regularly officers misusing their equipment like operating LIDAR around a curve, operating equipment in weather it is not designed for, or operating radar without a valid FCC license, they are not infallible, they are human and they screw up because speed enforcement is a numbers game and there is a high margin of error they can live with. If 40% of their tickets are wrongful it doesn't matter, 60% of them are still paying millions into the coffers. I don't think it's all intentional and I don't think it's the officers faults either, speed enforcement has lousy oversight of practical field application, and even when things are discovered to be in the wrong they will let the tickets stand because they know a few people will pay it without question. Keep in mind, in court an officers tesitmony always outweighs yours. If your strategy is your word against his or hers you will lose 100% of the time. They are given this benefit of the doubt because again they do this for a living and you don't. You are at a disadvantage from before the ticket is even written. The only way to beat them is with facts backed up with evidence. Because you don't like aircraft aiding Law enforcement? Take it to court get an attorney pay him as well take your chance. Pay the ticket admit your guilt and move on. I could careless. [/Quote] I love aircraft in law enforcement for other purposes. For speed enforcement it's sloppy and has too high a margin of error. The only thing more inaccurate is when they claim to be shadowing you in their cruiser and using the cars calibrated speedometer. CR people crack me up. Always right never wrong. It's comical Look at you, getting butt hurt for exactly the same thing. I'm gonna throw you guys a bone and let you tear it up without interference. My gift! I'm too old and got better things to do then debate on the web. I know you all will tear me up that's fine as I won't see it. No hard feelings. I'm just moving on. Good luck to everyone and your families please be safe! And I Truly wish you all the best !! Goodbye CR Mods please close my account Again be safe CR!! Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stretch Posted May 26, 2017 Report Share Posted May 26, 2017 These threads crack me up. Always entertaining seeing all the CR lawyers come to light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stretch Posted May 26, 2017 Report Share Posted May 26, 2017 It pretty much is. I have a buddy who is a cop and 95% of his job was writing speeding tickets. Poor justification to employ police officers. Less police, better training, more pay. I'd be completely okay with that, but employing police to mostly enforce speeding is a complete joke and unjustified IMO. I'd love to hear which department this is. No department employs officers strictly to enforce one violation. If it's that big of an issue within his jurisdiction then it sounds like then need to take other steps to prevent the issue as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmrmnhrm Posted May 26, 2017 Report Share Posted May 26, 2017 No department employs officers strictly to enforce one violation. Linndale did, up until they pissed off so many people that the state passed a law saying you had to have a ramp in order to tag speeders on the freeway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRTurbo04 Posted May 26, 2017 Report Share Posted May 26, 2017 Well lets see here? Were you speeding? If yes, pay it dont waste tax payers time trying to fight it over " technicalities" If you were not then hell yes fight it. As to your original question i got nothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted May 26, 2017 Report Share Posted May 26, 2017 (edited) don't waste tax payers time I assume you meant, don't waste taxpayer's money, not time. What a crock of shit. You have a Constitutional right to face your accuser (sixth amendment). It's built into the system. Judge gets paid whether you are there or not, he or she's on salary. Officer gets paid too (although some qualify for overtime in testifying but that's a quirk of the system) and he or she has to be there because you aren't the only ticket he or she wrote that day. So no government funds are being "wasted", that money is spent whether you show up or not. Court fees get assessed whether you plead guilty or not, so the "waste" is negligible if non-existent. In fact the only person that has anything to lose is the person fighting the ticket. What do they have to lose? - pay from work for having to take the time off to appear - increased insurance - extra court fines And there is something else: your driving record is something an officer takes into account in every traffic related interaction you have with them. If you have a clean record you have a chance to get off with a warning. 2 violations or more on your record? yeah you can pretty much kiss ever getting a warning or catching a break ever again good bye. It takes a long time for these things to disappear from your license, and considering Ohio is the #1 state for writing traffic tickets once you get that bad reputation for being a serial offender it gets harder for you to get away from that - they are going to successively treat you like a dirt bag the more stuff you accrue on your license. Edited May 26, 2017 by Geeto67 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 Sweet Posted May 26, 2017 Report Share Posted May 26, 2017 It's all about the money. Speeding tickets happen because its an extremely easy way to generate revenue, not to protect people from a safety standpoint. It's bullshit but that's life. We all know it and accept it. But when they take it a step further and start issuing tickets from an aircraft or a camera, that's unacceptable IMO. Gotta draw the line somewhere or the government will keep finding new ways to screw us harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Nice Posted May 27, 2017 Report Share Posted May 27, 2017 These threads crack me up. Always entertaining seeing all the CR lawyers come to light. "All"? Again, please don't assume everyone here is like...well, Geeto. http://www.gameinformer.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer-Components-ImageFileViewer/CommunityServer-Discussions-Components-Files-258/0246.wall-of-text.png_2D00_610x0.png http://www.gameinformer.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer-Components-ImageFileViewer/CommunityServer-Discussions-Components-Files-258/0246.wall-of-text.png_2D00_610x0.png http://www.gameinformer.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer-Components-ImageFileViewer/CommunityServer-Discussions-Components-Files-258/0246.wall-of-text.png_2D00_610x0.png http://www.gameinformer.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer-Components-ImageFileViewer/CommunityServer-Discussions-Components-Files-258/0246.wall-of-text.png_2D00_610x0.png http://www.gameinformer.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer-Components-ImageFileViewer/CommunityServer-Discussions-Components-Files-258/0246.wall-of-text.png_2D00_610x0.png Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillbot Posted May 27, 2017 Report Share Posted May 27, 2017 Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unfunnyryan Posted May 27, 2017 Report Share Posted May 27, 2017 Where on 33 did they get you? I got a few trips down 33 coming up and rather not deal with johnny in the sky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.