RedRocket1647545505 Posted July 6, 2017 Report Share Posted July 6, 2017 Shit's getting sporty over there. What's everyone's opinion on how all this is going to play out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Gump 9 Posted July 6, 2017 Report Share Posted July 6, 2017 Clinton didn't do shit Bush didn't do shit Obama didn't do shit Trump probably won't do shit Why bother? What can the US gains? We can't wrap up our ends in the Middle East why start another one, let China deal with this mess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrodh Posted July 6, 2017 Report Share Posted July 6, 2017 Is it to soon to say Nuke em? It worked for the last disobedient South East Asian Country... I KID I KID! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojoe Posted July 6, 2017 Report Share Posted July 6, 2017 NK maintains it's scary factor because they are viewed as barbaric and unruly in today's environment. Rumors of the punishment for seemingly menial things, some appear to be proven, are barbaric and cruel. I'm not saying I agree with them. But that place is not the US, or any other country. It's its own country and outsiders are trying to be humanitarians and tell them they can't do that or have that, or treat it's citizens that way. KJ is a man child, and in charge. That's a bad combo for leadership. Ultimately I think the US and other nations will do what we have in many other places we have issues with. We will influence a revolution of some sort. The assassination of KJ will fall on a motivated national from NK, resulting in them being killed after mission complete. It would take organized civilians to overthrow the militant government and create change. BUT, they have to want that and be willing to do that. The class system is very much in place, IMO, so locals have been kept down and unknowing for so long that it will be tough to get that countries main population to move and think for itself. That's where it would have to have outside guidance from the US or other nations. How do you get a well organized lower class group of civilians to be willing to fight and think they can win? It would take decades of infiltration and life long commitment to the task of getting into that country and setting this up. I'm not foolish enough to think it isn't in the works, nor am I overlooking that a group could and is here in the US trying to do the same thing to us. I posted this on FB as an "idea" not to be overlooked. The Ohioan from Cinci who was detained by NK, then release back to us, only to die a week or so later. http://abc6onyourside.com/news/local/otto-warmbier-has-died-according-to-his-family Sad to hear about this. This is something to think about, even though it is far fetched. Imagine a country that hates the US, captures a US citizen and then makes a great release back to his family and home county. The detained person goes to their home county being injected with something not traced. It manifests into something terrible, spreads and becomes wide spreading medical problem. Will people become zombies? Air born infection, that can't be contained? Far fetched, yes. Possible? Yes. This is the kitchen, so run with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted July 6, 2017 Report Share Posted July 6, 2017 Joe I too was surprised but then we don't know everything in terms of how quickly we took back the kid from Cinci. that they had. I did mention to the wife, what if they put a virus or contagion inside him and sacrificed those that were in contact with him to ensure that bug made it over to our shores. Was he adequately quarantined during all the transfers and inspections, etc.? Doubtful. IMO if we didn't get hit with such a bug, we dodged a bullet and NK was dumb for not thinking of it. To the OP'er question, I think this is going to play out in terms of economic or cyber warfare not with the use of traditional weapons. Not yet anyway. I say that as they and we know if either crosses the red line, it won't end well for anyone. In our case we'll be seen as the bad guy that owns whatever damage is incurred and to them, they will likely be leveled to red hot coals either via conventional or nuclear. Once any type of nuke is fired, even one, the world will never be the same as then it will be the new standard of potential and likely use again....if there is another opportunity. My guess is China is holding out for a little something extra in their favor before they push NK into submission. It's really a matter of us uncovering what they want from us to help us out in a situation they really have not much of a stake in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted July 6, 2017 Report Share Posted July 6, 2017 The two motivating factors for us not to do anything about North Korea are: 1) they don't have anything we want, and 2) KJ's regime is propped up by china. Our interest in NK is protection of our allies in South Korea, as well as any other smaller countries in parts of that region. The real threat is Chinese expansion and using NK as a proxy for that, and our biggest interests lie with South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, and the Philippines. There is no natural resource we are after, no trade agreements, no real monetary or strategic benefit (other than what we already have in South Korea) to North Korea which makes them mostly a low priority. On top of that, China has a real ally in NK. They are the country's top supplier for food and energy and have a lot of influence over KJU's regime. During the Korean War in the 50's we were fighting mostly Chinese troops because NK didn't have enough of a standing army and china has an interest in protecting its borders. Currently, China has an interest in NK not having A nuclear program and closed borders because it doesn't want refugees coming into the main land and wants to have more control and nuclear independence won't shore that up. China is one of our largest trade partners in the region, to take any action without their permission would put us at odds with our own ally. If their is action to be taken we would look to China to either take it first or we would get China's permission. Our biggest problem is that our current leadership is seen as unpredictable and hostile to the foreign community, and I just don't think he's capable of the finesse and tact that foreign affairs discussions and negotiations require. It's entirely possible he could put us in an aggressive stance we can't back away from with no good endgame. It will be interesting to see. Diplomacy is a suit he wears worse than his current actual suits (which is hard to do....and also why doesn't the whitehouse have s fucking tailor on call?) and diplomacy is exactly what is needed in this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted July 6, 2017 Report Share Posted July 6, 2017 It will be interesting to see. Diplomacy is a suit he wears worse than his current actual suits (which is hard to do....and also why doesn't the whitehouse have s fucking tailor on call?) and diplomacy is exactly what is needed in this situation. My guess is he picks the material and fit based on comfort. Ever notice he's either in a suite and tie, occasionally without a tie or he's in slacks with a golf shirt? Comfort clothing. He's a big oaf-lumpy dude and a properly fitting suit would likely be uncomfortable to him as it's meant to accent and flatter a far less heavy dude. I see it a lot that big guys just don't look comfy or feel comfy in suits vs someone who is trim. Add in the fact that he probably doesn't give a shit and that most are checking out his wife's body vs his and he knows it so thus a smug smile that he's banging it. In the end, it's not like a tailor couldn't pull it off, but my guess is he doesn't like the way it feels and he's in a suit for a lot longer per day than the average person wearing one for work and he says fuck-it, I'm going to be comfy and it's not like he needs a power-suit to prop up a weak ego as I think he has that covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStowers023 Posted July 6, 2017 Report Share Posted July 6, 2017 Our biggest problem is that our current leadership is seen as unpredictable and hostile to the foreign community Yeah, definitely just our current leadership :dumb: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted July 6, 2017 Report Share Posted July 6, 2017 Clinton didn't do shit Bush didn't do shit Obama didn't do shit Trump probably won't do shit Why bother? What can the US gains? We can't wrap up our ends in the Middle East why start another one, let China deal with this mess Bingo.... There's a CR member who's from South Korea, I would honestly like to hear his take on it since he might know a bit more than any of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojoe Posted July 6, 2017 Report Share Posted July 6, 2017 Tim I'm a little lost in the beginning of your post, but I think I got the gist of it. Tim and Kerry, I can agree with what you've added about China and NK. That's what has me thinking it would take a revolution from within. It would put China in a position to step in and help its ally, yet create the option for NK to choose. I could also see China just taking it over. It's a mess. Kerry I'm pleased to see that our current administration has people thinking the way you posted. We have the right people in place to be diplomatic when that's what the situation calls for. I can only hope more people share your skepticism. So long as Trump is not in sweats and a tshirt all the time, I don't care about what he's wearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted July 6, 2017 Report Share Posted July 6, 2017 Tim I'm a little lost in the beginning of your post, but I think I got the gist of it. Tim and Kerry, I can agree with what you've added about China and NK. That's what has me thinking it would take a revolution from within. It would put China in a position to step in and help its ally, yet create the option for NK to choose. I could also see China just taking it over. It's a mess. this is kind of a strategic quandary, right? China's reach goal is to control all the asian islands, but that is an very difficult reach goal without setting off the third world war due to the alliances Japan and the Philippines have with the US and Europe. I think china's ideal and possible but still reaching goal is to unify Korea under their rule or influence, or in the alternative under North Korea's rule which they influence heavily. They could possibly do this if they can get the western world to soften their stance on North Korea. Their Moderate fear is that Korea unifies under South Korean rule with the capital in Seoul. This puts a US military base in a country that directly borders china on the south eastern border. Currently our closest bases there are South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, and the Philippines, and along the western border in India and Afghanistan (only India shares a border with China). China has been really good about both not letting the US operate permanently within it's borders (since the 50's) and keeping their exposure limited from both sides, a unified democratic Korea with established US military bases would weaken that. Kerry I'm pleased to see that our current administration has people thinking the way you posted. We have the right people in place to be diplomatic when that's what the situation calls for. I can only hope more people share your skepticism. I have a lot of faith in our foreign diplomats, I just get nervous that the CIC would find someway to undermine them like he has undermined republican's in congress (esp through twitter). It's ok to be seen as a strong leader unafraid of taking Military action, it's another to be seen as not in control of the people under you by having them work on something and then throw them under the bus publicly (and is seen as a sign of weakness). Being the head of the armed services, this is one area where trump is best served by being the silent wild card rather than the petulant twittering child. So long as Trump is not in sweats and a tshirt all the time, I don't care about what he's wearing. I was just making a joke about his suits (which are terrible by the way), didn't mean for it to get out of hand. However, posturing and perception is a big part of foreign relations, esp when there are language or cultural barriers. How much does it matter? Maybe more than your think - Clinton was 230lbs when he took office, so not exactly trim, but he didn't look like a schlub wearing daddy's suit and it paid off in his foreign diplomatic efforts. Teddy Roosevelt was 220 lbs, Taft was 340lbs, and Cleveland was 280lbs. All of them look like they dress better than Trump, and most of them had good foreign relations during their tenure. It's a very American lie to say "I don't care what he is wearing as long as he gets the job done" because really in corporate America as well as the rest of the world your professional career can be traced to how "put together" you look. Trump doesn't look very "put together". Tailoring aside, he chooses light fabrics, his suits are not whole cloth (means the grain doesn't match panel to panel), and he doesn't bother to have them pressed which means they wrinkle easily and look wrinkled, and a lot of his materials are often more shiny than they should be highlighting the wrinkles. He isn't buying cheap suits, but it looks like he buys off the rack instead of bespoke which isn't how someone at his level should be doing things. you can fix things like the tailoring and the tie length, but the others just require a different kind of suit. What his wardrobe translates to is a perception that he isn't intelligent and careful, He as little regard for details, and isn't that organized. Unfortunately he seems to be reinforcing this assumption through some of his actions. Being president is a job where caring about your own appearance matters a lot more than most think, it's one of many tools at his disposal and to just completely give up that tool is to only handicap himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unfunnyryan Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 Disrupt supply lines, destroy food stores, army goes hungry within a matter of days and revolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillJoy Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 Make them fucking glow... :thumbup: KillJoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o0n8 Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 I think we all know who to send over... Didn't KJU and his dad do similar things when Obama & Bush came into office? I feel like I first learned of North Korea's threat when W came into office because they were doing something similar. Almost like they have to see where the limits are with every new administration. It's a little crazy to think about, but I feel like we've seen it before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffro Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 Its all propaganda I tell you. Thanks dot gov. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 Didn't KJU and his dad do similar things when Obama & Bush came into office? I feel like I first learned of North Korea's threat when W came into office because they were doing something similar. Almost like they have to see where the limits are with every new administration. It's a little crazy to think about, but I feel like we've seen it before. here is a pretty good timeline of North Korea's Nuclear Arms conflict with the world. It may seem like this stuff crops up every administration but keep in mind it has been going for a very long time: https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/dprkchron North Korea has been trying to become a nuclear power since the 1950's, and thanks to the efforts of the rest of the world those efforts have been slowed considerably. Still it proves that no matter the obstacles persistence will pay off eventually. The only thing I question is how relevant nuclear arms is in terms of securing a seat at the world's table? On the one hand many countries like Switzerland and Germany don't have nuclear arms and are still effective in multinational discussions while countries like Pakistan have them and are not as involved, on the other there are dozens of smaller countries that have a tremendous amount of human rights violations and other crimes against the governed, Like Eritrea, who don't get any attention from us. I sometimes wonder if NK's saber rattling is just to keep them in the public spotlight so that the UN, US based charities, the UK, and China will keep sending foreign aid to the people of NK during the "lean season" (spring and summer) to keep their people from dying. It is unclear how much of the NK economy is dependent on foreign aid, but it is enough to make a dent the the quality of life for the NK people. Without international attention, people won't hear of the famine or other harsh conditions and then there won't be an interest in providing food and clothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87GT Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 They are now a nuclear threat to us since they can reach Alaska. We will probably be less likely to help our allies South Korea and Japan if they are attacked. We have agreed to strike back if NK attacks. Those 2 countries might start building up nuclear weapons because of this. Non-Proliferation Treaty my ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted July 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 How's our anti-missle laser tech doing these days? Also, rough guess on how many subs we have parked off the Korean Peninsula right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStowers023 Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 North Korea doesn't scare me Our reaction to whatever happens does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87GT Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 How's our anti-missle laser tech doing these days? Also, rough guess on how many subs we have parked off the Korean Peninsula right now? I don't know and not enough subs IMO. From what I've heard our surface to air missile defense tests have a shit ratio at hitting a target successfully. I thought we were supposed to be number 1 in everything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted July 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 North Korea doesn't scare me Our reaction to whatever happens does Pissing off Russia and/or China worries me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbird Posted July 8, 2017 Report Share Posted July 8, 2017 I don't know and not enough subs IMO. From what I've heard our surface to air missile defense tests have a shit ratio at hitting a target successfully. I thought we were supposed to be number 1 in everything? Didn't we just recently successfully test our ICBM defense system in response to NK? I thought the same thing though, that the success rate isn't great. Hopefully we have some super secret squirrel laser system that's badass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87GT Posted July 8, 2017 Report Share Posted July 8, 2017 Didn't we just recently successfully test our ICBM defense system in response to NK? I thought the same thing though, that the success rate isn't great. Hopefully we have some super secret squirrel laser system that's badass. Yes we did just do a successful test. Here is an older article stating we have a 40% success rate. We have a lot to work on not just for protection from NK but any other country. http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/30/politics/pentagon-missile-test-north-korea-iran/index.html I am still pro nuclear. Just knowing your enemies have the option to strike is sometimes enough to keep peace. Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShowHBK Posted July 8, 2017 Report Share Posted July 8, 2017 *yawn* Nothing is going to happen... The End. Seriously... Every single time they pull shit like this, people get all freaked out and NOTHING happens. I don't wish war/mass death upon anyone, but you ever hear the phrase "poop or get off the pot"? GD, the entire thing is like two drunk college bros who are all jacked up on whey protein and MMA... "No you punch first bro!", "naw man, you dont want me to, I'll fucking put you on the floor!" "oh yea? bring it on" "oh you don't want this bitch!" *yawn* i'm tired of giving a crap about NK. either overtake NK and join the fucking countries, or let them be. I know we are bro's with SK and swore to defend them, but why not make positive strides in mending relations? crazy idea... i know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87GT Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 *yawn* i'm tired of giving a crap about NK. either overtake NK and join the fucking countries, or let them be. I know we are bro's with SK and swore to defend them, but why not make positive strides in mending relations? crazy idea... i know. Have fun trying to reason with a brainwashed country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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