GM going all electric?

[Geeto67]

Wow thats ugly. Im not sure what that is. Kind looks like a Mule for the Volt of Bolt.

 

Looks to me like a first gen Saturn (I am sure some of that was used)

 

Seriously? you guys don't know of the EV1? Not trying to shit on you but I thought everybody knew about this car from the movie "who killed the electric car?".

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1#Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car.3F

 

They built this all electric car from 1996 to 1999 and leased it out to people. It was the first mass produced modern electric car from a major automaker.

 

GM built 1117 of them to test the viability of the electric car in the market. The end result was they crushed all be a few examples and declared that the market place was not ready for an electric car. They pulled all the leases and cancelled the program in 2003. In 2008 Tesla came out with its all electric roadster.

 

Pretty much the interest in electric cars prior to the EV1 was almost 0, but by the end of the program it was more than even GM anticipated. People who were skeptical about the EV1 that had the chance to experience it became advocates of the car to the point where there was a ground swell of support for GM not to shred the cars. The conspiracy theory of "Big Oil" killing the electric car and suppressing alternative energy really ramped up because of of the EV1.

 

Like it or not, that little car that looks like a suppository mated with a saturn kinda changed the world.

[iwashmycar]

Either way I think it is a good plan to start saying they want to do it.... It is good press. Cant let Tesla have it all lol

 

 

Then when they finally fail it can be because "the world isn't ready" vs. we actually suck at what we have done for forever.

[Geeesammy]

Peak oil has passed. Now we are are the backside of the bell curve.

 

We will use more resources to produce and maintain EV's than we would improving what we have now.

[Cordell]

Draco- as someone who is Volt trained, let's clarify the difference between a Volt and your typical hybrid. There are 2 motor/generator assemblies in the Volt transmission, they can eithrr generate electricity through regen braking (motor 2) or through the engine running to generate power (motor 1). They can be used to propel the car either independently or together. However the engine itself never sends power to the wheels, there is the ability there for it to do so, but it doesn't. There is basically 3 sets of clutches in the trans to connect or isolte the engine, motor 1, and motor 2. There is no torque converter just a coupling so it's unable to use the engine to drive the car.

 

Now a typical hybrid is almost opposite this EREV concept. As the electric motor is simply there to assist. GM uses a couple versions of this in the form of e-assist or 2 mode. In simple terms e-assist uses an external motor in place of the alternator to perform regen, generator, and propulsion assist. The 2 mode uses motors in the transmission, and while similar to a Volt, it has a torque converter and the engine provides power above 25mph.

 

 

So seeing as how GM utilizes all these systems as well as pure battery only, you cannot say that they are not on the forefront of technology.

 

I also want to say that while hydrogen is a really cool concept, think about the infastructure involved with something like that. Hydrogen is much harder to contain and deal with then gasoline. While that may be the ultimate replacement, it's much further off then anything else being discussed here.

[Draco-REX]

Peak oil has passed. Now we are are the backside of the bell curve.

Very likely.

 

We will use more resources to produce and maintain EV's than we would improving what we have now.

Possibly on the production side, but not on the maintenance side. EVs have far less maintenance than conventional cars. And if the manufacturer prioritizes longevity over capacity bragging rights, like GM and Nissan, the battery will likely outlast the car. There are Volts at well over 100K with no appreciable range loss.

 

In fact, there are manufacturers (Hyundai and Volvo are two) that are considering changing the car buying model to what is essentially a subscription-based model for their EVs since the maintenance costs are so minimal.

[Geeto67]

hey Cordell,

 

what would it take to convert the engine to drive the volt?

[Draco-REX]

Draco- as someone who is Volt trained, let's clarify the difference between a Volt and your typical hybrid. There are 2 motor/generator assemblies in the Volt transmission, they can eithrr generate electricity through regen braking (motor 2) or through the engine running to generate power (motor 1). They can be used to propel the car either independently or together. However the engine itself never sends power to the wheels, there is the ability there for it to do so, but it doesn't. There is basically 3 sets of clutches in the trans to connect or isolte the engine, motor 1, and motor 2. There is no torque converter just a coupling so it's unable to use the engine to drive the car.

 

Now a typical hybrid is almost opposite this EREV concept. As the electric motor is simply there to assist. GM uses a couple versions of this in the form of e-assist or 2 mode. In simple terms e-assist uses an external motor in place of the alternator to perform regen, generator, and propulsion assist. The 2 mode uses motors in the transmission, and while similar to a Volt, it has a torque converter and the engine provides power above 25mph.

 

 

So seeing as how GM utilizes all these systems as well as pure battery only, you cannot say that they are not on the forefront of technology.

 

I also want to say that while hydrogen is a really cool concept, think about the infastructure involved with something like that. Hydrogen is much harder to contain and deal with then gasoline. While that may be the ultimate replacement, it's much further off then anything else being discussed here.

 

There are a couple videos from GM that state otherwise. When the engine is being used ("depleted" traction battery/Hold/Mountian mode), it's coupled to the drivetrain at high speeds (over 100kmh I think). Which matches my experience with it as the traction battery will slowly deplete during extended highway driving in Hold mode due to the engine being unable to replenish the charge after needing to use it for passing/hills etc. When I get home I'll try to find those videos.

[Draco-REX]

hey Cordell,

 

what would it take to convert the engine to drive the volt?

 

It's not the best idea. The Volt's engine uses an Atkinson cycle, so it's powerband is very narrow and it doesn't make a lot of power for its size (100hp from a 1.5L). It's more efficient, and it's narrow powerband is perfectly fine for being a generator, but it's not great for driving which is why the electric motors are the primary motors even when in hybrid mode.

[Cordell]

There are a couple videos from GM that state otherwise. When the engine is being used ("depleted" traction battery/Hold/Mountian mode), it's coupled to the drivetrain at high speeds (over 100kmh I think). Which matches my experience with it as the traction battery will slowly deplete during extended highway driving in Hold mode due to the engine being unable to replenish the charge after needing to use it for passing/hills etc. When I get home I'll try to find those videos.

 

I have personally seen conflicting information from GM on this subject so I don't wish to argue about it, my point is that the engine isn't designed to drive the wheels. The only information I have seen (likely the same as you have) that indicates that in an extreme situation it can get coupled to both motors thus driving the wheels, however it's not like it does this on any regular basis.

[Cordell]

hey Cordell,

 

what would it take to convert the engine to drive the volt?

 

Completely re-engineering the car. :dumb:

[Grudes]

Seriously? you guys don't know of the EV1? Not trying to shit on you but I thought everybody knew about this car from the movie "who killed the electric car?".

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1#Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car.3F

 

They built this all electric car from 1996 to 1999 and leased it out to people. It was the first mass produced modern electric car from a major automaker.

 

GM built 1117 of them to test the viability of the electric car in the market. The end result was they crushed all be a few examples and declared that the market place was not ready for an electric car. They pulled all the leases and cancelled the program in 2003. In 2008 Tesla came out with its all electric roadster.

 

Pretty much the interest in electric cars prior to the EV1 was almost 0, but by the end of the program it was more than even GM anticipated. People who were skeptical about the EV1 that had the chance to experience it became advocates of the car to the point where there was a ground swell of support for GM not to shred the cars. The conspiracy theory of "Big Oil" killing the electric car and suppressing alternative energy really ramped up because of of the EV1.

 

Like it or not, that little car that looks like a suppository mated with a saturn kinda changed the world.

 

Hmm never saw that movie. GM must have done as good of a job of advertising it as they have done with the Volt/Bolt

[Geeto67]

Completely re-engineering the car. :dumb:

 

ok but you said:

 

However the engine itself never sends power to the wheels, there is the ability there for it to do so, but it doesn't.

 

 

how does it have the ability to do so, but to actually do so requires re-engineering of the car? Is it software or hardware the keeps it from sending power.

[Otis Nice]

Seriously? you guys don't know of the EV1? Not trying to shit on you but I thought everybody knew about this car from the movie "who killed the electric car?".

 

Who could forget that blockbuster smash?

[Cordell]

ok but you said:

 

 

 

 

how does it have the ability to do so, but to actually do so requires re-engineering of the car? Is it software or hardware the keeps it from sending power.

 

It's both, there's no place for a torque converter so you could not ever have the car take off under engine power. There's also lots of software issues because it's designed to be propelled by electric motors. If you wanted it to run on purely engine power of course that is basically impossible, it would be easier to LS swap it. I suppose with some slightly different designs of the engine and trans on top of software you could have a 2 mode hybrid similar to the hybrid Yukons from a few years back.

[99StockGT]

Wouldn't mind an electric daily driver, that would be okay.. but not having a loud, thumping V8 pushing my adrenaline detracts from everything.

 

This I think is probably the biggest sticking point with those of us considered "enthusiasts", there's so much loss of the tactile driving experience in an EV. No rumble, shake, rattle, growl... all those things we associate with big thumping V8s that have powered the 'Merican hotrodder/racer since ... well since the beginning of hotrodding.

 

Do EVs make great commuter cars? Absolutely. Because that is typically an A-B experience where you want to get there as efficiently and drama free as possible. However when I get in and turn the key in a "classic" the drive is the experience, as much or more so than the destination.

[Mallard]

Seriously? you guys don't know of the EV1? Not trying to shit on you but I thought everybody knew about this car from the movie "who killed the electric car?".

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1#Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car.3F

 

They built this all electric car from 1996 to 1999 and leased it out to people. It was the first mass produced modern electric car from a major automaker.

 

GM built 1117 of them to test the viability of the electric car in the market. The end result was they crushed all be a few examples and declared that the market place was not ready for an electric car. They pulled all the leases and cancelled the program in 2003. In 2008 Tesla came out with its all electric roadster.

 

Pretty much the interest in electric cars prior to the EV1 was almost 0, but by the end of the program it was more than even GM anticipated. People who were skeptical about the EV1 that had the chance to experience it became advocates of the car to the point where there was a ground swell of support for GM not to shred the cars. The conspiracy theory of "Big Oil" killing the electric car and suppressing alternative energy really ramped up because of of the EV1.

 

Like it or not, that little car that looks like a suppository mated with a saturn kinda changed the world.

I'm shocked that people have already forgotten the EV1. It was far ahead of its time and could get like 80 to 90 miles per charge on lead acid batteries. Later models upgraded the battery pack, but would be able to have amazing range if LiIon were available at the time.

 

They were only available in CA and AZ.

 

The ones that weren't crushed were stripped of electronics, VIN, and donated to museums and universities. There's one collecting dust in the basement of my alma mater.

 

GM also build S10 EV's with the same technology, but they weren't crushed like the EV1. Quite a few years ago a guy I went to school with found an S10 EV in a junkyard, poached the EV stuff, and converted a Fiero.

 

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

[caseyctsv]

Wow thats ugly. Im not sure what that is. Kind looks like a Mule for the Volt of Bolt.

 

It’s the GM EV1...they were pushing the EV frontier. *** Shit posted before I saw page 2

[Smokey]

So can GM make an EV truck that I can tow my 5000 lb car and trailer from here to Watkins Glen NY in 7 hours or less? If not then they can't go 100% electric and hope to survive as the truck business is big for them.

[99StockGT]

So can GM make an EV truck that I can tow my 5000 lb car and trailer from here to Watkins Glen NY in 7 hours or less? If not then they can't go 100% electric and hope to survive as the truck business is big for them.

 

Currently, no they can't. You would be eating up battery charge at a rapid rate and creating an immense amount of heat. BUT, what about when you get up to cruising speed and the amount of thrust needed diminishes massively? You get into highway gear and Hybrid tech kicks in to keep things rolling. MPG climbs by 30-40% and keep on truckin.

 

Also, keep in mind the big boys are already looking at EV powered Semi trucks, most of those are for short haul and around the city type trips, but the hardware is coming along quickly and could easily trickle down into the pickup size.