A/C Retrofit?

[zeitgeist57]

My 1979 Lincoln is running allll-riiiiiiiiiiight...but I'm not looking forward to 80+ degrees in a suit...

 

Been awhile since this topic has come up, but does anyone recommend a shop to retrofit an old R-12 system (or get it back up to snuff, wink wink?)

 

Noebull Automotive quoted me $250 for my last Lincoln a couple of years ago...may go that route unless someone suggests otherwise. Lucore??

[Geeto67]

first off : R134a convert or GTFO. It's just seals anyway.

 

Second - get vintage air and do it yourself. You can get A/C only builders kits for less than $500 including the compressor and condensor.

 

Unless you have a 1979 lincoln donor car, or an existing system that's fried, it pays to just start from scratch.

[STEVE-O]

Are they still converting to R134a or does it need to be HFO?

[Crossle]

Still converting to R134, based on the operating pressures of HFO you are talking likely an entire system replacement. I don't think we are there yet.

[Cordell]

Still converting to R134, based on the operating pressures of HFO you are talking likely an entire system replacement. I don't think we are there yet.

 

Given the price of R1234yf I wouldn’t want it anyway. I doubt retrofitting to that is going to be a thing, not any time soon anyway.

 

Convert to 134a, do a little research on how compatible the compressor is, most are fine but a couple GMs for example were not recommended at all. Not sure where to send you, that’s something I’ve never done, maybe Northend Wrench still does this stuff?

[craig71188]

134a retrofit on R12 is (relatively) easy.

Flush the system, add the correct oil for 134a. Depending on if orifice tube or expansion valve - replace orifice tube and dryer (if expansion valve, be sure it's clean and leave it alone - install new dryer regardless) and then charge to 80% of original spec and temp test system for correct balance/charge and adjust as needed to get system in balance. Although R134a uses different o-rings, if the system is undisturbed, they seem to work just fine, any seepage of the old mineral oil seems to coat them and they seal well - Mineral oil is not solvent in 134a so is doesn't really "move" in the system.

[zeitgeist57]

Are there DIY systems to retrofit, assuming all the Freon has already been evacuated from the existing A/C system? Can I search online through some company for kits, or at least the components?

[99StockGT]

Yes we certainly do these and it's in the neighborhood of what Noebull quoted you. The unknown with these things is how well sealed up your current system is, unfortunately there's no much you can do beyond just convert it pressurize it and test. We've done tons of the conversions, its a very slidey scale on how well it turns out without replacing compressors/hoses/etc.

 

Otherwise as Kerry said the Vintage Air kits are AWESOME and work great, however you're going to have considerably more out of pocket than the "Try it and Pray" method.

[Richard Cranium]

Otherwise as Kerry said the Vintage Air kits are AWESOME and work great, however you're going to have considerably more out of pocket than the "Try it and Pray" method.

 

Just curious here, if he goes with the try and pray method, what's worst case scenario to get it running? Vs. the Vintage air kit. Could it potentially cost more to get the original system converted and running?

[zeitgeist57]

Vintage Air is definitely a game changer from what I’m reading...almost gets To a point where instead of getting an old, original car with AC that doesn’t work, you’re almost better off getting an older car without AC and just putting a vintage air system in it.

[99StockGT]

1) Yes you can absolutely end up spending more in the long run with the try and pray method if pieces and parts need to be replaced, not to mention if there's a leak in the old system you are usually venting toxic (and expensive) material that once you replace said part will just be need to be compensated. Quite literally your money is evaporating into the air.

 

2) Vintage Air IS a game changer, pretty simple straight forward system with all sorts of usability. You can get bracketry for nearly anything, the hardware weighs FAR less than the ancient compressors and thick cast iron brackets as well. Really for those of us who buy/work on classics the appeal of buying an "A/C Car" are less and less now that their kits have gotten so good.

[Geeto67]

Just curious here, if he goes with the try and pray method, what's worst case scenario to get it running? Vs. the Vintage air kit. Could it potentially cost more to get the original system converted and running?

 

I can actually speak to this since I am going through it now with my Jeep.

 

I have a jeep YJ with Factory A/C. All Jeeps of my generation had a kit AC made by an aftermarket company so the kits are still available. The factory kit to replace every single part in my Jeep with 100% with what it came from the factory is $950. To replace it individually at the auto parts store it's $1200. that's every single part to do an install.

https://jeepair.com/wrangler-ac-kits/91-95-yj-wrangler-ac-kit-4-0-liter-engine.html

 

 

Vintage air will sell me an Air only kit (which same as my jeep's factory system) for $305. It has mostly similar parts and will work the same, but most importantly it's all the pieces to make a system work.

 

https://www.vintageair.com/builder-series/?subcat1=Under%20Dash&subcat2=Slimline&subcat3=Cool%20Only

 

Personally I am on the fence about what to do since the jeep is a 1 owner car and mostly original, but if it weren't - VA all day every day.

 

At the very least, since we are talking about Clay's 41 year old car, it will need a condenser, compressor, and lines at a minimum worst case scenario (assuming the car was a factory AC car to start with). The motorcraft compressor for that car alone is between $250 and $300.

[zeitgeist57]

80 degrees, I'm in a suit, and I drove the Lincoln to work today...time to call Vintage Air.

 

...and I'm glad I did. Spoke to Andy in their sales department. Great catalog to download from, and MAN was he knowledgable and great to work with over the phone. Got his direct contact info, and he wants me to take some pictures and measurements so they can piece together a system.

 

Will keep CR updated!

[BuckeyeROC]

Great thread and knowledge here guys. Other than a recharge, I've never done anything with a car's hvac before.

 

If you don't mind me asking in your thread Clay, would any of you have advice for me on the 1986 Corvette project A/C? The system was converted from R12 to R134a back in 2000, per a sticker on the blower. The compressor has started to leak, sticker says it's the old R12 compressor. Does or should R134a take a different compressor from the stock R12? What basic steps should I follow for replacing this? Take it somewhere for proper evac, flush, discharge or whatever they do? Is a kit like this worth looking into? https://www.corvettemods.com/C4-Corvette-1984-1987-Refrigerant-AC-Conversion-Kit--R12-To-R134A_p_10610.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIovKIz4r74QIVWgOzAB2cPwGLEAQYASABEgKlMPD_BwE

Edited May 1, 2019 by BuckeyeROC

[Geeto67]

I would have a shop pressure test the system for leaks. You think your compressor is leaking but it's probably all the seals as well as the lines and even the condenser contributing to that. A pressure test with UV dye will tell you all the weak points.

 

That corvettemods conversion kit is just that - a conversion kit. It won't "automatically fix it for you" unless the compressor and the seals were the only problem, and you won't know that until the system has been tested.

[BuckeyeROC]

I would have a shop pressure test the system for leaks. You think your compressor is leaking but it's probably all the seals as well as the lines and even the condenser contributing to that. A pressure test with UV dye will tell you all the weak points.

 

That corvettemods conversion kit is just that - a conversion kit. It won't "automatically fix it for you" unless the compressor and the seals were the only problem, and you won't know that until the system has been tested.

 

Thanks man. Lucore the popular suggestion to have this done? Maybe I'll save this for when I need the alignment done too.

[Geeto67]

Thanks man. Lucore the popular suggestion to have this done? Maybe I'll save this for when I need the alignment done too.

 

you could do it yourself:

 

[zeitgeist57]

So, after working with Andy at Vintage Air, I've unfortunately come to a stop: The compressor/brackets they have (called "blocks") fit the 351W, but not the 400-M in my Lincoln. The Ford FS-10 compressor is what they have a block for, not my ancient, 2-liter-bottle-sized factory compressor.

 

The other issue I'm faced with is that there is a climate control vacuum issue where the coolant valve for the heater doesn't shut off, causing the interior to get mad hot regardless of the temp setting. I have to zip-tie it shut. Will have to figure out the vacuum leak before getting the A/C serviced.

 

Realistically, all of my other vehicles (including my Silverado) all have working A/C so I'll just sleep on this for awhile.

 

Thanks for everyone's suggestions, and will definitely keep Vintage Air in mind in the future! Great to work with!

[zeitgeist57]

If you don't mind me asking in your thread Clay, would any of you have advice for me on the 1986 Corvette project A/C? The system was converted from R12 to R134a back in 2000, per a sticker on the blower. The compressor has started to leak, sticker says it's the old R12 compressor. Does or should R134a take a different compressor from the stock R12? What basic steps should I follow for replacing this? Take it somewhere for proper evac, flush, discharge or whatever they do? Is a kit like this worth looking into? https://www.corvettemods.com/C4-Corvette-1984-1987-Refrigerant-AC-Conversion-Kit--R12-To-R134A_p_10610.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIovKIz4r74QIVWgOzAB2cPwGLEAQYASABEgKlMPD_BwE

 

When I had my '82 Chevy C20, I lived in FL and paid $900 in 2005 to convert the 6.2L diesel's A/C compressor to R134. Definitely was a new compressor, and I noticed some newer fittings and pressure sensors at the time. It worked great, but quickly got weaker in the next few years before I ended up selling it.

 

I did find an interesting convo below...not much guidance to fixing this aside from having way more vintage A/C experience as a mechanic (which I don't have).

 

https://www.lincolnlandinc.com/blog/2014/01/1979_mark_ac_questions.htm

 

I mentioned a bit ago that I need to find a vacuum leak...I may just end up taking it to Noebull or Lucore for input. May just make more sense to have someone poke at the car for a few days to understand the leaks and errors in order to make the right repair, as opposed to me guessing and throwing new parts at an old system.

 

I'll need the shop to evacuate any old freon anyway!

[99StockGT]

Nothing like a few 80+ degree days to make people want to get their A/C working Just wrapped up and shipped a '67 Firebird today and jesus without A/C and with the windows up that thing felt like driving an oven!

 

In all honesty both Noebull and us I'm sure could do some poking and help you make a decision, just remember you are paying for poking and that usually isn't fixing your root problem of 40 year old shit

 

And yes Matt we can certainly help you out on that, these past few days it's incredible how quickly the A/C calls start rolling in. With all the track prep and projects we are trying keep moving forward on.. things are getting a bit sticky!