Save Our Hobby NOW

[Jewtoys]

So because there are a handful of faggots out there you're okay with the government banning EVERYBODY from modding their cars?

 

Again, modding your car is already illegal.

 

 

We still do it.

[RedRocket1647545505]

So because there are a handful of faggots out there you're okay with the government banning EVERYBODY from modding their cars?

 

Hello from the Pro-gun crowd. Welcome to the fight.

[gillbot]

You're right, they brought the ultra hot light of the feds on themselves thanks to a few very stupid people.

 

The problem is now the feds are dropping the hammer on the rest of us along with the powersports industry too.

 

But this is what always happens, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Knee jerk government reactions are typically based on minor issues but cast wide enough to screw over everybody.

[wagner]

Again, modding your car is already illegal.

 

 

We still do it.

 

Kinda of, but not really. Certain modifications have flown under the "offroad use only" flag for decades and there was no issue. The problem is the EPA has decided to go after the companies that make products rather than the end user since that's where the money is for them and it's easier.

 

Additionally, they're going into full overreach mode and expanding how/what they attack.

 

Do we need to protect the environment, 110% yes. But, things have changed since the Clean Air Act was written, passenger cars don't produce nearly the amount of pollution they used to . Performance vehicles make up such a small percentage of what's on the road it's really overkill to go after them, especially older cars or cars being used for motorsports.

 

But, its the EPA we're talking about, they're not the best at taking the smart approach to things.

[Not Brian]

Again, modding your car is already illegal.

Show me the law that says I can't install a cold air intake

[RyM3rC]

I remember like 20 years ago reading in some off-roading mag about the maximum heights of bumpers and thinking "wow I see trucks higher than that constantly"

 

inb4 the OSHP is pulling over anything that looks fast to give it the full inspection

[AWW$HEEET]

Ya just keep voting for obama and al gorre

[AWW$HEEET]

Go america

[Jewtoys]

Show me the law that says I can't install a cold air intake

 

Depends what state.

 

Regardless, people will still do it.

 

 

We’re getting near the end of ICE vehicles, all of this was bound to eventually happen.

 

 

Sucks, but there are more important things to worry about

[2 Sweet]

this country sucks lately

 

^ this

[Otis Nice]

An unpopular opinion but, I honestly don't feel bad for the diesel tuning industry in the slightest. For the longest time they were really reckless and it lead to this "rolling coal" bro culture that is just bad for everybody.

 

I don't think diesel tuning will stop - if there is money to be made then it will find a way to be made, but hopefully this approach from the EPA will force the diesel tuning industry to innovate in the emissions equipment area and be more responsible about it rather than just churning out more shitty bro-dozers. I mean it worked for the OEM's so why not the aftermarket?

 

Yep.

 

They probably have been getting endless complaints for years. Solid 50% of diesel trucks I’m behind reek, and are rolling coal. I live in a downtown, and multiple times each hour I will hear the lame as hell crackle tunes. Sprinkle in a Mustang or two with long tubes, and riding around at 5k RPM.

 

 

So because there are a handful of faggots out there you're okay with the government banning EVERYBODY from modding their cars?

 

This...in so many words.

 

Again, modding your car is already illegal.

 

It is?

 

Depends what state.

 

So you can't show where it's illegal to modify a vehicle in any way?

[xlr8tn]

An unpopular opinion but, I honestly don't feel bad for the diesel tuning industry in the slightest. For the longest time they were really reckless and it lead to this "rolling coal" bro culture that is just bad for everybody.

 

I don't think diesel tuning will stop - if there is money to be made then it will find a way to be made, but hopefully this approach from the EPA will force the diesel tuning industry to innovate in the emissions equipment area and be more responsible about it rather than just churning out more shitty bro-dozers. I mean it worked for the OEM's so why not the aftermarket?

 

It's frowned upon by most even in the diesel world these days. I'd say there's a far greater number of gas burners on the road tooling around without cats. What about commercial diesels? Ever see those guys going up an on ramp with a heavy trailer? If a strict smog testing policy was brought back how many on the board would fail? I don't feel sorry for just the diesel guys.....I feel sorry for every hot rod guy out there because this won't end with just the diesel guys.

[Jewtoys]

 

 

 

This...in so many words.

 

 

 

It is?

 

 

 

So you can't show where it's illegal to modify a vehicle in any way?

 

 

 

Lights, height, anything emissions related, non dot tires, etc.

 

 

Not saying I agree with it, pointing out people will still do it. Look how strict California is, and the car scene is massive

[10phone2]

compare moving cost leaving cali and moving into cali.... folks arent quite that happy about the state and regulations. uhaul 20ft box truck rental from los angeles to phoenix is 900 to 2k. going from phoenix to los angeles is 200-600

[Ben]

An unpopular opinion but, I honestly don't feel bad for the diesel tuning industry in the slightest. For the longest time they were really reckless and it lead to this "rolling coal" bro culture that is just bad for everybody.

 

I don't think diesel tuning will stop - if there is money to be made then it will find a way to be made, but hopefully this approach from the EPA will force the diesel tuning industry to innovate in the emissions equipment area and be more responsible about it rather than just churning out more shitty bro-dozers. I mean it worked for the OEM's so why not the aftermarket?

 

YES, YES, 1000 times yes. Rolling coal and being in-your-face assholes is the cause of this. No one at the EPA had their panties in a twist about people racing Miatas or classic Porsches or any other semi-respectable thing.

But then there were too many goddamn news stories about awful assholes blowing smoke at pedestrians, cyclists, and fuel-efficient cars, too many incidents of huge trucks parked where they shouldn't be or vandalizing charging stations for electric vehicles. And so people got mad. And while national agencies don't get motivated very often by public sentiment, when a lot of people get mad at a few people (particularly when those same few people spent their money on train horns and removing emission controls instead of lobbyists to cover their asses) that moves the needle.

 

Unfortunately, though, once a person, business, activity, or industry succeeds in becoming the negative focus of a government entity, be it the IRS, the police, ethics commission, EPA, or whoever, that's basically waking the sleeping giant. You're in for a rough ride and it won't be finished until they say it is. It's a classically predicable story--assholes ruin a good time for everyone else.

 

A few people, shops, and businesses are probably going to get fucked. Some of them will probably deserve it. Some won't. The good news is, this will all blow over at some point. The other piece of good news is if you're modding sensibly and not being an obnoxious prick about it, you're probably going to be able to continue to do that without realistic chance of repercussions. As several people have pointed out, it has always been illegal to tamper with emissions controls on road-going cars, and yet people quite happily have done it for decades, even in states like California which are about as bureaucratically uptight about it as it is possible to be. So I wouldn't sound the death-knell for motorsport just yet.

[Otis Nice]

I don't feel sorry for just the diesel guys.....I feel sorry for every hot rod guy out there because this won't end with just the diesel guys.

 

Bingo.

[ODoyle]

An unpopular opinion but, I honestly don't feel bad for the diesel tuning industry in the slightest. For the longest time they were really reckless and it lead to this "rolling coal" bro culture that is just bad for everybody.

 

I don't think diesel tuning will stop - if there is money to be made then it will find a way to be made, but hopefully this approach from the EPA will force the diesel tuning industry to innovate in the emissions equipment area and be more responsible about it rather than just churning out more shitty bro-dozers. I mean it worked for the OEM's so why not the aftermarket?

 

Because you shouldn't be allowed to tell me what to do with my shit after I buy it. Shits mine. Fuck off.

 

:insert me still being salty about window tint laws:

[Geeto67]

Let's discuss the scope of this as well.

 

What any action from the EPA won't affect:

 

- Any emissions exempt vehicles. At the federal level that is any vehicle that is 25 years or older, at the state level it ranges from 1967 (first year of emissions equipment) in IL, to 1975 for california (first year of testing), to 25 years for most other states. If you are curious here is a list: https://www.hagerty.com/media/archived/emissions-and-your-collector-vehicle/

 

- Most Kit cars, component vehicles, etc...depending on the state's laws as to whether they have to be emissions compliant (e.g. NY registers kit cars by year of the engine and the car is expected to be emissions compliant for that year).

 

- dedicated race cars like rail dragsters, funny cars, pro-mods, etc....

 

- Any 48-49-50 state emissions legal speed part. also any aftermarket stock replacement part that retains emissions functionality.

 

So on the whole old car hot rodders, kit car guys, etc will be fine. The sky isn't going to fall on me if I want to run a brand new Holley 4150 and a set of straight pipes on my 1967 GTO (although I might have to answer for the noise), or if I want to build a factory five cobra or a speedway t-bucket with a 1965 289 or a crate coyote engine or e-rod Ls.

 

What is affected?

 

Late model Street cars that are street/strip cars. Or more specifically, race car parts for late model cars that delete emissions equipment that are marketed toward street cars. This is most of the Diesel tuning industry (but not all), but also a large part of the gas powered aftermarket as well.

 

So it's not "a small group" ruining it for everyone in the hobby, it's actually probably about half the hobby.

 

So why is the federal EPA going after companies? I heard before where someone said it was about money, and maybe that's a part of it, but it's not the primary reason. The primary reasons are:

1) that manufacturers are the choke point in the supply chain; and

2) products liability law says that if you make something for sale to the general public you are responsible for any damage that thing does from regular use (not misuse).

 

The EPA doesn't have the manpower nor the desire to go after individual citizens or local small shops, but involve yourself in interstate commerce (like be a diesel tuning shop that takes customers from all over the country for your emissions defeating tune) and you are on their radar. Also regulating individuals is really in the state's domain.

 

The problem here is that as emissions laws progressed the aftermarket got a pass for a long time because the EPA has had other priorities to attend to, so some members of the aftermarket cheated rather than make emissions compliant parts. They made and sold speed parts that deleted, or otherwise rendered ineffective emissions equipment and marketed and sold them to people for their street cars. now the EPA expects them to take responsibility for their actions going forward and they pitch it like the sky is falling on them because the big bad government is going to put them out of business.

 

As a life long car/motorcycle/airplane guy I am sympathetic to the aftermarket, I really am. The street/Strip car or the is the lifeblood of our hobby because it is the gateway to careers, racing, an avocation that makes heroin addiction look like a mild craving for something salty. But at the same time, the aftermarket and SEMA's push for maintaining the status quo instead of evolving with the emissions landscape has kind of helped create the current situation.

 

just my thoughts.

[Otis Nice]

Words.

 

So you're just full Karen about diesels then.

[Tractor]

In about 96 when I started driving back in my home of Marietta Ohio we had lifted trucks, lights, etc and got harassed by the cops all the time and got warnings, tickets for bumper height, uncovered off-road lights etc.

They seemed to stop the harassment after 2000 and now I see those stupid Carolina squat trucks running all over with way to many lights turned on and 40" front bumpers heights rolling coal while the rear is dragging the ground. Stupidest shit ever. Maybe it's just cause I'm in the south.

[Geeto67]

So you're just full Karen about diesels then.

 

Well I am not asking to speak to the Diesel tuning industry's manager while drinking Chablis and sporting a haircut that is a gentle waterfall in the front and knives in the back, so not Karen. Maybe more of a Vanessa or a Rachel.

[Jewtoys]

In about 96 when I started driving back in my home of Marietta Ohio we had lifted trucks, lights, etc and got harassed by the cops all the time and got warnings, tickets for bumper height, uncovered off-road lights etc.

They seemed to stop the harassment after 2000 and now I see those stupid Carolina squat trucks running all over with way to many lights turned on and 40" front bumpers heights rolling coal while the rear is dragging the ground. Stupidest shit ever. Maybe it's just cause I'm in the south.

 

Ugh, I see a solid 5 of these daily.

 

Massive chrome wheels, tiny ass tires, rear bumper almost touching the ground, and multiple antennas that are 10 feet long. Common trend on all of them.

 

Heinous

[10phone2]

oh the humanity. just trust the gov. it will be fine.

[xlr8tn]

In about 96 when I started driving back in my home of Marietta Ohio we had lifted trucks, lights, etc and got harassed by the cops all the time and got warnings, tickets for bumper height, uncovered off-road lights etc.

They seemed to stop the harassment after 2000 and now I see those stupid Carolina squat trucks running all over with way to many lights turned on and 40" front bumpers heights rolling coal while the rear is dragging the ground. Stupidest shit ever. Maybe it's just cause I'm in the south.

I agree....looks stupid. I will say though that it's definitely not the first dumb fad and won't be the last. I've seen the air shock/shackle fad with wide tires that stuck 2" outside the rear fender wells, fart can mufflers, wings, etc etc. The squat stuff too shall pass and it'll be some other dumb fad.

[gillbot]

Bumper nuts.