☆~PoLOLtics~☆

[Mace1647545504]

My "ramblings" are only crazy to the crazy..so sniff on that.

 

Those of us that drive ice vehicles will be taxed 2x..1 with gas and 1 w/vmt. We all know that once a tax is implemented it never gets rescinded.

 

The vmt will affect people making less that $400k...so I don't understand why you can see this or don't want to see this.

 

As far as being a libertarian..i find it funny..when talking about then mandatory covid shots you didn't say anything..as a libertarian you should be appalled .

[greg1647545532]

As far as being a libertarian..i find it funny..when talking about then mandatory covid shots you didn't say anything..as a libertarian you should be appalled .

 

I'm not in favor of mandatory covid shots, and other than cruises there aren't any. What do you want me to be appalled at?

 

Also, everyone should get the shot without being forced to.

[Mace1647545504]

I can almost agree with your last statement...look how close we are greg..lol

[greg1647545532]

Well I think the "party of personal responsibility" needs to take a good look at what they think that means. I think everyone has a personal responsibility to get the vaccine if they're able. I think it's the right thing to do as an American. I got vaccinated with all kinds of shit in the name of military readiness and everyone thinks that's patriotic. But people won't get the jab to protect immuno-compromised cancer survivors. "They should just stay home if they're worried about getting sick" says to me "I don't want to bear any personal responsibility for my country or my fellow citizens." To me, personal responsibility means "The government isn't going to force people to get the shot because the government trusts that people will do the right thing." And so there are no vaccine mandates, and look at all the people not doing the right thing....

[Otis Nice]

Always do, boss.

 

Then why did you say:

 

I initially thought the same thing as Kerry but then I read the WHOLE article...

 

So cornfusing. So you read it all before you replied but when you replied you initially thought one thing then read the WHOLE article?

 

I feel like that is directed at me so I'll field this one from Otis in Troll mode.

 

I don't even need to read the novella following this. It was not directed at you. If it was I would have just quoted you. It was directed at greg whom I quoted. It was also not trolling. It was a simple bit of advice based on an observation he made.

 

I got vaccinated with all kinds of shit in the name of military readiness and everyone thinks that's patriotic.

 

I don't, but if you sign the contract...

[greg1647545532]

Then why did you say:

 

 

 

So cornfusing. So you read it all before you replied but when you replied you initially thought one thing then read the WHOLE article?

 

Sure, I'll give you the play-by-play. I started reading the article, which is about state programs in Utah and Oregon. It goes on and on about state programs. And I thought, like Kerry did, "What the fuck, does Mace not understand the difference between federal and state governments? Because this article is all about state governments." But I kept reading, and then got to the part at the bottom that talks about the federal initiative in the infrastructure bill, and I said to myself, "Oh, that's what Mace was talking about."

 

Which is why none of my replies accused Mace of not understanding the difference between state and federal governments, even though I initially thought that might be the case... because I read the whole article before replying.

 

Crystal?

 

eta: I hope the irony of you not taking the time to understand what I was saying before firing off a snarky comment at me isn't lost on you.

[Otis Nice]

 

Crystal?

 

Like the Pepsi.

 

eta: I hope the irony of you not taking the time to understand what I was saying before firing off a snarky comment at me isn't lost on you.

 

What snarky comment? Suggesting reading an entire article before reacting? My apologies. That wasn't intended to be snarky. It was, in fact, just some food for thought. My bad.

[99FLHRCI]

I'm not in favor of mandatory covid shots, and other than cruises there aren't any.

 

I guess TECHNICALLY it is not mandatory as you have the choice to leave your job/lose your livelihood. IMHO, being told get the shot or get fired is pretty mandatory. So first, hospitals started the get the jab or get a new job. Then it went to some first responders. Then it went to state employees. Then some private employees. Then it went to federal employees. Now it is federal contractors. It is also at the point of all private companies with 100+ workers must mandate employees to be vaccinated or weekly tested. Combine that with insurance companies beginning to only cover the test if it is "medically necessary". (Started to run into that this week with employer now requiring a negative test every 3 days. Insurance will only cover a PCR or Serum test with a doctor's note. They will only cover a Rapid Test when "medically necessary".)

 

Outside of that, the vaccine is mandatory for many recreational things. Certain restaurants, venues, etc. At some point, it is mandatory without being mandatory.

 

Back to the testing, if we are going to require unvaccinated individuals to be tested, why don't we test the vaccinated? They can carry it, spread it, get sick from it, even die from it. If you were truly trying to stop the spread, that would be the most effective method. Utah has actually started this at the school level but, I think if an employer is going to test, they should have to test everyone.

[Gergwheel1647545492]

Then it went to state employees.

 

Its not mandatory for state employees

[greg1647545532]

I guess TECHNICALLY it is not mandatory as you have the choice to leave your job/lose your livelihood. IMHO, being told get the shot or get fired is pretty mandatory. So first, hospitals started the get the jab or get a new job. Then it went to some first responders. Then it went to state employees. Then some private employees.

 

I don't know enough about some of those categories to have an opinion, e.g. first responders. My understanding is that, in Ohio at least, the health care employee vaccine mandates were all implemented by the hospitals themselves, which would fall under the libertarian-friendly "employers can set whatever rules they want" ideology. I imagine any first responders required to be vaccinated would be under a municipal policy, which I would generally be uncomfortable with, but I'm not familiar enough with that industry to know if that's typical. Certainly cities would have a vested interested in ensuring EMS isn't putting their populations at risk. It's hard to keep track of all the various state and local policies.

 

Then it went to federal employees. Now it is federal contractors.

 

I'm not comfortable with the intensity of the federal employee/contractor mandate. More information is supposed to come out this week but so far I'm not a fan. I don't know if I'd say I'm "appalled" as a libertarian, to use Mace's word, but this definitely goes too far. There are federal jobs that simply cannot be done in the private sector, and there are federal jobs that don't require human interaction.

 

It is also at the point of all private companies with 100+ workers must mandate employees to be vaccinated or weekly tested. Combine that with insurance companies beginning to only cover the test if it is "medically necessary". (Started to run into that this week with employer now requiring a negative test every 3 days. Insurance will only cover a PCR or Serum test with a doctor's note. They will only cover a Rapid Test when "medically necessary".)

 

I'm generally OK with vaccine mandates if there's a testing alternative, but I think that the federal government needs to continue to pick up the bill for testing if it's going to make that the only alternative. Again, I'm not sure if I'm appalled by the new OSHA rules here, but there's room for improvement.

 

Outside of that, the vaccine is mandatory for many recreational things. Certain restaurants, venues, etc. At some point, it is mandatory without being mandatory.

 

And generally these are private entities making their own rules, although I can't keep track of every local ordinance so who knows. But to your last point, yes, at some point not being vaccinated will be a huge inconvenience. I generally don't have a problem with that as freedom to make choices doesn't mean freedom from the consequences of those choices.

 

Back to the testing, if we are going to require unvaccinated individuals to be tested, why don't we test the vaccinated? They can carry it, spread it, get sick from it, even die from it. If you were truly trying to stop the spread, that would be the most effective method. Utah has actually started this at the school level but, I think if an employer is going to test, they should have to test everyone.

 

I agree 100%. Trump should have started an aggressive mandatory testing program from day 1 like many Asian countries did, and that should have been carried on to this day, even for the vaccinated.

[Geeto67]

My "ramblings" are only crazy to the crazy..so sniff on that.

 

You fire off lot of half baked uninformed, easily debunked opinions because....I guess you feel that having strong opinion is more valuable than having an accurately informed one? One only has to go a few pages back in this thread to literally see where you admit to not having read about an issue but still had a pretty strong opinion on it. I mean if you are going for the old man shouting at clouds vibe, bravo - you nailed it.

 

Those of us that drive ice vehicles will be taxed 2x..1 with gas and 1 w/vmt. We all know that once a tax is implemented it never gets rescinded.

 

How will we be taxed? The article you posted talked about it at the state level, but how is vmt going to work at the federal level? I don't think anybody knows that at the moment. doesn't stop you from shouting at Biden that he's broken his promise, even when you don't know if the VMT is going to be collected from the vehicle owner. The federal government doesn't actually collect federal gas taxes from the customer - it's an excise tax on the manufacturer of gasoline per gallon, that gets passed through via price because that's how capitalism works. A vmt isn't like a fuel tax - and the federal gov isn't setup to collect from individuals in the same way, so how is it going to work? don't you think you want to know that?

 

The vmt will affect people making less that $400k...so I don't understand why you can see this or don't want to see this.

 

I don't think this part was in question. The part in question was how The president of the US was responsible for state programs that the states enacted independently and have been working on since the last administration? I get it, you are old and to you Biden is the boogey man responsible for everything bad now that happens from vmt's to any flat tires you may get in the future. Is "thanks Biden" the new "thanks Obama"?

Edited September 23, 2021 by Geeto67

[Mace1647545504]

Kerry read the entire article at the end it does talk about the federal bill..and if you look at the fed bill it's there..so there's that.

 

Greg read it so do the same before you begin rambling like farts thought the day.

 

Yeah we can thank biden for many bad things that currently are happening but you choose to bury you head and not see them. Because he's a dem and you are a democratic socialist .. well a socialist..you refuse to say anything that may make your boy look too bad..you will spew a few minor things he's done but none of the major.

 

And I don't get how you mean the vmt may not be collected by the owner..either it will be some kind of tax placed on top of the vehicle when bought (ex. gas guzzler) or a new fed tax on fuel. Those are my humble opinions

[Geeto67]

By the way - here is why the "how" matters:

 

- if the federal VMT is calculated by how many kWs are used to charge an EV, then this is a tax that closing a loophole/incentive/tax dodge that electric vehicles have that allows them to use the roads and not pay for them since they are not using any gasoline. It wouldn't affect any ICE owners, cost of collection would be low because it is collecting from a central point (the power utility), and net effect is the same as if an individual owned two ICE cars or one ICE and one EV. I think the overwhelming majority of people could get behind this.

 

- If the VMT is calculated by setting up federal tolls on federally sponsored highways, this is less ideal, costly, and stifles all sorts of other things like interstate commerce. I don't know that many would support this at all, but at least it would draw a direct connection between use of the road and paying for the upkeep.

 

- If the VMT is calculated by taxing the individual owner, well the federal government would have to develop a mileage tracking system or leverage an existing state level one. It would affect ICE and EV owners alike and would be in effect a new tax. It would very costly, and it would double tax ICE owners. This is what a lot of conservatives/libertarians assume/fear, but also one of the lesser likely scenarios. I don't think many Americans would support this at all.

 

Either way, the federal tax we are talking about ONLY goes to road and highway repair and maintenance since the highway trust funds can only be used for that. It's a direct tax on vehicles to pay for the roads they use. Only the most dipshit extremists think this is an unnecessary tax arrangement.

[Mace1647545504]

kerry ..your last theory will affect ice more than ev as we already pay a tax on the gas we consume.and the majority of the poor use ice vehicles so again the $400k baseline is gone and those that can least afford it are affected.

[Geeto67]

Kerry read the entire article at the end it does talk about the federal bill..and if you look at the fed bill it's there..so there's that.

 

I've read it three times not. It MENTIONS the federal bill but almost as a foot note. The article talks about how the states are approaching it with some detail and then goes "oh by the way this federal measure exists". I'd call it a foot note but it's not even that.

 

 

Yeah we can thank biden for many bad things that currently are happening but you choose to bury you head and not see them. Because he's a dem and you are a democratic socialist .. well a socialist..you refuse to say anything that may make your boy look too bad..you will spew a few minor things he's done but none of the major.

 

Asking for more information or pushing others to think about the action taken before condemning is not "burying one's head in the sand", it's actually the opposite. I did this with the last administration, it's not asking too much to ask you to do it with the current one. You accuse people of not wanting to make "their boy" look bad but you don't gather any information and you seem to be triggered by even the slightest measure that calls for more information. In other words, rather than read and understand any measures going through, you accuse people of something you do yourself.

 

 

And I don't get how you mean the vmt may not be collected by the owner..either it will be some kind of tax placed on top of the vehicle when bought (ex. gas guzzler) or a new fed tax on fuel. Those are my humble opinions

 

I mean I spelled it out pretty clear in my examples. Lots of taxes are collected upstream from the end consumer at the supplier or manufacturer before the end user is even identified, and many get built into the cost the end user pays but isn't a direct tax on the end user. Each model has it's own efficiencies and deficiencies and it's important to understand those because they have different results on you and me.

 

Gas guzzler style taxes are inefficient because they tax use that hasn't occurred yet and are often placed on what we call "toy" vehicles. If you don't drive your toy car 10k miles per year, then you are not getting full utility out of the tax you paid. Additionally the tax is actually paid by the manufacturer and is not required to be paid by the customer - the dealer makes it seem like you gave to pay it but you can negotiate it out of the purchase price, if the opportunity presents itself.

 

A fed tax on fuel we already have for gas and diesel but not for EV. If they tax EV "fuel" that is a tax on power generated by the utility. The utility could collect it directly from the consumer and remit it to the .gov, but that's a pretty equitable tax that is more about closing a loophole of EV's than a "new tax".

 

kerry ..your last theory will affect ice more than ev as we already pay a tax on the gas we consume.and the majority of the poor use ice vehicles so again the $400k baseline is gone and those that can least afford it are affected.

 

Did you miss the part where I said it is the least likely scenario to happen? I'll add more, VMT in general is pretty unpopular (about 21% support across the public) but this idea is so unpopular none of the parties want to touch it in congress, and this issue is being discussed at length by the Transportation and Infrastructure committee.

[99FLHRCI]

Its not mandatory for state employees

 

Currently 6 states have dates for vaccination or termination for healthcare workers. This includes workers employed by the state and private.

 

4 states have mandates that cover some or all of their employees and do not have a testing exemption.

 

Some states have also mandated all teachers (state or private employed).

 

So yes... it IS mandatory for state employees.

[99FLHRCI]

My understanding is that, in Ohio at least, the health care employee vaccine mandates were all implemented by the hospitals themselves, which would fall under the libertarian-friendly "employers can set whatever rules they want" ideology.

 

Of the 6,090 hospitals in the United States, 5,141 of them are community AKA publicly or government funded.

 

I imagine any first responders required to be vaccinated would be under a municipal policy, which I would generally be uncomfortable with, but I'm not familiar enough with that industry to know if that's typical. Certainly cities would have a vested interested in ensuring EMS isn't putting their populations at risk. It's hard to keep track of all the various state and local policies.

 

Personal experience, the policy I have been under is put on your PPE and get to work. If we have under 3 symptoms, we still report (minus a positive test). Some locations are beginning to mandate the vax under a municipal policy.

 

 

 

I'm not comfortable with the intensity of the federal employee/contractor mandate. More information is supposed to come out this week but so far I'm not a fan. I don't know if I'd say I'm "appalled" as a libertarian, to use Mace's word, but this definitely goes too far. There are federal jobs that simply cannot be done in the private sector, and there are federal jobs that don't require human interaction.

 

Vaccinate AND attest on a document under penalty of perjury or testing has been in effect for awhile. They have a hard deadline of November 22nd for Federal Employees. There is question as to if that includes contractors. The EO that requires contractors is due to be submitted tomorrow, review and plan available and in place by 10/15 and effective 30 days after that.

 

 

 

I'm generally OK with vaccine mandates if there's a testing alternative, but I think that the federal government needs to continue to pick up the bill for testing if it's going to make that the only alternative. Again, I'm not sure if I'm appalled by the new OSHA rules here, but there's room for improvement.

 

Again, personal experience, we are currently allowed to use home test kits and can get them for free from a few places. This has been called "temporary". According to our insurance, they will only cover same day tests that are deemed "Medically Necessary". They will only cover the longer more accurate tests "With a Doctor's Note". Most of the free testing has a * and states with insurance or Medicare/Medicaid. Rapid tests near me are $50 insurance or not. PCR tests are $150-500 if not covered by insurance. We are required to test every 3 days. Employer requirement is not being accepted as "Medically Necessary". Currently, our employer is telling us to use insurance and not covering any costs (except time for non-exempt employees). No test fees or mileage.

 

 

 

And generally these are private entities making their own rules, although I can't keep track of every local ordinance so who knows. But to your last point, yes, at some point not being vaccinated will be a huge inconvenience. I generally don't have a problem with that as freedom to make choices doesn't mean freedom from the consequences of those choices.

 

We are at the point where these are coming from local ordinances. Just like they should be allowed to say only vaccinated people should be allowed to enter, they should be allowed to say anyone may enter.

 

 

 

I agree 100%. Trump should have started an aggressive mandatory testing program from day 1 like many Asian countries did, and that should have been carried on to this day, even for the vaccinated.

 

The problem I see here is that political parties aside, we are currently segregating and testing a portion of the population despite science telling us everyone is a viable carrier. If we are to follow the science, let's follow all of it. We do know for sure that everyone can carry it and we do know that testing is available and safe. We do not know that the tests are 100% accurate but, at least they don't physically harm people. We cannot say the same for the vaccine.

[99FLHRCI]

How will we be taxed? The article you posted talked about it at the state level, but how is vmt going to work at the federal level? I don't think anybody knows that at the moment. doesn't stop you from shouting at Biden that he's broken his promise, even when you don't know if the VMT is going to be collected from the vehicle owner. The federal government doesn't actually collect federal gas taxes from the customer - it's an excise tax on the manufacturer of gasoline per gallon, that gets passed through via price because that's how capitalism works. A vmt isn't like a fuel tax - and the federal gov isn't setup to collect from individuals in the same way, so how is it going to work? don't you think you want to know that?

 

I don't think this part was in question. The part in question was how The president of the US was responsible for state programs that the states enacted independently and have been working on since the last administration?

 

With a little additional research, you can see that in the Infrastructure Program, $50M has been included for a National Pilot program for a miles traveled fee. $75M is going to regional, state, and local agencies to test a miles traveled fee.

 

There is nothing you buy per mile that is not a variable vehicle to vehicle. It cannot be targeted at fuel, tires, etc. To be a true miles traveled fee, it is linked to your odometer. You would have to be tracked/reported and pay directly.

 

Going straight off that, this is a National program at a National level.

 

Yes that article begins by talking about 2 state programs. It ends with the national program.

[99FLHRCI]

- if the federal VMT is calculated by how many kWs are used to charge an EV, then this is a tax that closing a loophole/incentive/tax dodge that electric vehicles have that allows them to use the roads and not pay for them since they are not using any gasoline. It wouldn't affect any ICE owners, cost of collection would be low because it is collecting from a central point (the power utility), and net effect is the same as if an individual owned two ICE cars or one ICE and one EV. I think the overwhelming majority of people could get behind this.

 

How do you break down the electric bill? What part is to charge the vehicle and what part is to power the house? How do you tell if I have a EV at that location? Maybe I bought one for my summer home and use ICE at my regular home. How do you equate kW to a mileage? Tesla vs. Bolt vs. Leaf... they are all going to have different mileages. Even the same 2 cars operated by different drivers would have different mileage/kW usage. This would become a kW tax like a gas tax. It would not be a mileage tax. So between logistics and actual definition, I would say this is out.

 

- If the VMT is calculated by setting up federal tolls on federally sponsored highways, this is less ideal, costly, and stifles all sorts of other things like interstate commerce. I don't know that many would support this at all, but at least it would draw a direct connection between use of the road and paying for the upkeep.

 

Agreed and this also would not cover all the other roads and most likely just push vehicles onto secondary roads creating a new problem.

 

- If the VMT is calculated by taxing the individual owner, well the federal government would have to develop a mileage tracking system or leverage an existing state level one. It would affect ICE and EV owners alike and would be in effect a new tax. It would very costly, and it would double tax ICE owners. This is what a lot of conservatives/libertarians assume/fear, but also one of the lesser likely scenarios. I don't think many Americans would support this at all.

 

This would effect everyone equally (just like it appears to be proposed). It would also be a new tax (as it appears to be proposed). It would not be very costly at all. Quick, simple, easy method. When you register you vehicle, they check your odometer. Next year, you register and they check it again. Mileage x fee = Vehicle Mileage Tax. Can be verified online or in a physical location. Much like my recent COVID test, I get on a secure app, show my test (QR code) and my result. For this, show your VIN and show your odometer. All on the same live video with a phone jockey overseas.

 

Either way, the federal tax we are talking about ONLY goes to road and highway repair and maintenance since the highway trust funds can only be used for that. It's a direct tax on vehicles to pay for the roads they use. Only the most dipshit extremists think this is an unnecessary tax arrangement.

 

Mush like your fuel tax pays for more than roads, repair and maintenance, this would most likely be the same. The current fuel tax is used to help cover the cost of building and maintaining roads, bridges, and tunnels—as well as to help address traffic-related issues such as congestion and pollution. It gets very broad once you start adding these other terms and can easily be abused. (Like most government programs)

[Gergwheel1647545492]

Currently 6 states have dates for vaccination or termination for healthcare workers. This includes workers employed by the state and private.

 

4 states have mandates that cover some or all of their employees and do not have a testing exemption.

 

Some states have also mandated all teachers (state or private employed).

 

So yes... it IS mandatory for state employees.

 

Ohio is not one of those 4, so no its not mandatory for STATE OF OHIO employees.

[Mace1647545504]

I'm ok paying the gas tax to repair roads and bridges..so I don't know where you got the idea i don't.

 

You still bounce around the main thought..if the feds place a vmt it will adversely affect those who can least afford it..whether it's the least of your thoughts is neither here nor there..it will tax those who make less than $400k...does this sound familiar .."no new taxes"..but it wasn't the reason he wasn't re-elected

[Geeto67]

With a little additional research, you can see that in the Infrastructure Program, $50M has been included for a National Pilot program for a miles traveled fee. $75M is going to regional, state, and local agencies to test a miles traveled fee.

 

$50M to do what exactly though - that's the point. Nobody knows yet how the federal program is going to work, even though it now has a budget. If you listen to Mace he can tell you that it 100% is going to fuck over the little guy, even though nobody knows how the mileage tax is actually going to work yet.

 

There is nothing you buy per mile that is not a variable vehicle to vehicle. It cannot be targeted at fuel, tires, etc. To be a true miles traveled fee, it is linked to your odometer. You would have to be tracked/reported and pay directly.

 

right!, but fuel was always the consumable that closely links to mileage. That's why we had a fuel tax to pay for the damage done by miles traveled by each car over the road in the first place. The federal government turned the refineries into tax collectors by taxing them and making it a cost of doing business that they pass on to the customer. That's usually how the federal government works - it creates an incentive in others (usually private industry) to do the expensive work.

 

 

Yes that article begins by talking about 2 state programs. It ends with the national program.

 

It ends by mentioning it but not telling you how. That's my point. Nobody knows the how yet, and too many people are jumping to scream "burn the tax raising socialist" before the mechanics of the tax has even been written.

 

How do you break down the electric bill? What part is to charge the vehicle and what part is to power the house? How do you tell if I have a EV at that location? Maybe I bought one for my summer home and use ICE at my regular home. How do you equate kW to a mileage? Tesla vs. Bolt vs. Leaf... they are all going to have different mileages. Even the same 2 cars operated by different drivers would have different mileage/kW usage. This would become a kW tax like a gas tax. It would not be a mileage tax. So between logistics and actual definition, I would say this is out.

 

The technology is out there right now, in development not use, that has the EV's charger identifying itself to the power grid. The initial development plan was for the grid to recognize EV's and to actually pull power from their batteries for spikes in the grid and then replace it (basically using all EVs as a network of backup batteries). The side effect of having the car identify itself to the grid directly is that kw hours could be specifically tracked.

 

A gas tax and a kw hours used tax are defacto versions of a mileage tax, because it is taxing a consumable associated with mileage. Don't get hung up on the strict definition of what is a VMT and what isn't - if it functionally works as one that may very well be where congress lands, if they land at all.

 

Agreed and this also would not cover all the other roads and most likely just push vehicles onto secondary roads creating a new problem.

 

Everything has it's unique challenges. That's why $50M was earmarked to study it and figure it out.

 

 

This would effect everyone equally (just like it appears to be proposed). It would also be a new tax (as it appears to be proposed). It would not be very costly at all. Quick, simple, easy method. When you register you vehicle, they check your odometer. Next year, you register and they check it again. Mileage x fee = Vehicle Mileage Tax. Can be verified online or in a physical location. Much like my recent COVID test, I get on a secure app, show my test (QR code) and my result. For this, show your VIN and show your odometer. All on the same live video with a phone jockey overseas.

 

See this is the state/federal trap. The registration of your vehicle is handled at the state level, not the federal. The Fed gov involvement in vehicles is literally limited to writing guidelines that the states and manufacturers adopt and enforce and taxing vehicles imported. That's it. The federal government isn't entitled to piggyback on the state's scheme and information without the state's permission and in states that value sovereignty (looking at you Texas) that's a hard sell. Additionally if the Fed gov want's to use the information or have the state do extra work, they have to pay for it so yeah, it's costly because the state is paying for it and then the federal government has to pay for the work the state is doing to report to them, plus build a new branch on the IRS to analyze the data and make sure they are getting paid. $50M that's just for the research - new IRS departments? add another zero to the end.

 

we already have a model for this: The income tax system. You know how you file a return for federal income tax, and then you file different forms for state, and different again for local? Yeah, that but with mileage and tax collection.

 

Mush like your fuel tax pays for more than roads, repair and maintenance, this would most likely be the same. The current fuel tax is used to help cover the cost of building and maintaining roads, bridges, and tunnels—as well as to help address traffic-related issues such as congestion and pollution. It gets very broad once you start adding these other terms and can easily be abused. (Like most government programs)

 

Federal Fuel tax ONLY goes to roads and supporting infrastructure as per the federal trust. State gas tax goes to other things, but again there is that state/federal trap. You can't blame the federal government for the actions of the state that have recognized sovereignty from the federal government in a specific area.

[Geeto67]

I'm ok paying the gas tax to repair roads and bridges..so I don't know where you got the idea i don't.

 

You still bounce around the main thought..if the feds place a vmt it will adversely affect those who can least afford it..whether it's the least of your thoughts is neither here nor there..it will tax those who make less than $400k...does this sound familiar .."no new taxes"..but it wasn't the reason he wasn't re-elected

 

how do you know that it will affect the least who can afford it if you don't know how the tax is levied and collected? It's just a feeling at this point, but one that lets you just channel some strong anger you have toward the president. Just like the rest of us, it's just a hunch and you may be right and may be wrong, but being a hunch isn't stopping you from rooting for red and against blue.

 

If you are just going to be a republican simp, then just own it. Stop pretending like you have fair and balanced (pun intended) informed opinions or that you are impartial. Be honest with yourself.

[Nickey4271647545519]

Holy shit, we need to give some of you a character limit.

[Mace1647545504]

kerry you are the pot calling the kettle black..talk about a political simp..you are the worse.

 

trump had a lot of bad points but joe has him beat by a mile on how bad he is

 

Again, I've voted for both partys but have leaned more to the pubs as they are more like the dems of the 60s.

 

But I feel you vote straight blue no matter what and will defend that vote with exhausting diatribes talking around subjects trying to wear the reader out.

 

I will agree we don't know how vmt will play out but if it's a mileage charge it will affect everyone...but you can't even admit that