Stillman

[Likwid]

Dude look at this

When your color goes flat like the reds are, that means you overdid it, you shouldn't lose all depth and create artifacts when you adjust an image, that's my point

[Clifford Automotive]

I understand exactly what your saying. A high pass filter does that to the colors. And on print you wont notice it.

You should see my office I just printed 40 8x10's today...

[ReconRat]

Original

Corrected

No damage done to the sharpness. The depth cues are still intact. Some greyness left in, it's a distance shot.

Even the human eyeball expects greyness at distance. Another depth cue.

Notice the improvement in zoning. There's now greater detail in both highlights and shadows.

Consider it a JND. Just enough to impress the visual stimulus without slapping the viewer.

[Clifford Automotive]

It doesnt impress the visual stimulus...you lost color.

Zoning? Do you mean Depth of Field?

[Disclaimer]

Do you guys take requests? I don't have the "tools" here, but I want someone to do a pseudo HDR image, then a tilt-shift image.

I wanna see what those look like.

[ReconRat]

Clifford is right, this over saturation is what sells.

But it isn't a photograph anymore it's a cartoon.

And that is what people want to see.

It does impress me though, as long as it isn't too whacked out.

It's just sad to see photography go away.

That's what I said, this isn't photography anymore.

It's commercial art.

[Likwid]

Do you guys take requests? I don't have the "tools" here, but I want someone to do a pseudo HDR image, then a tilt-shift image.

I wanna see what those look like.

I can do a pseudo HDR if you have a high quality original, won't look even close to what you'd want without true exposure adjusted originals.

I didn't think it was possible to do a tilt shift from an image, I thought you HAD to have the right original.

[ReconRat]

It doesnt impress the visual stimulus...you lost color.

Zoning? Do you mean Depth of Field?

Zoning is from back-in-the-day of Black & White photography.

It's largely ignored now, and there sure isn't a button in PhotoShop for it.

Zoning lost it's importance in color photography, but it's still a technical correction that should occur first.

Zoning is the existence of all 256 shades of grey in a photograph.

If they aren't there, it's not a proper exposure and/or printing of image.

Definitely back-in-the-day.

JND is a Just Noticeable Difference

It's difficult to do correctly. (Often done as subliminal to the viewer.)

It's often dependent upon the viewing distance between object and observer.

And this isn't about color, it's about photography and reality versus commercial art.

edit: Color is not the only thing that impresses the visual stimulus.

Edited August 20, 2009 by ReconRat
moar

[Clifford Automotive]

Gotcha...I may have to go back to my B&W days...

[Clifford Automotive]

When it comes to business, its whatever sells.

And to crowds this sells...Some others may not like it, but the ones that dont like it, I probably wasnt trying to appeal to their taste anyway.

This is the background of my business card, the cards opacity is a lot less, and no black border.

[Likwid]

Zoning is from back-in-the-day of Black & White photography.

It's largely ignored now, and there sure isn't a button in PhotoShop for it.

Zoning lost it's importance in color photography, but it's still a technical correction that should occur first.

Zoning is the existence of all 256 shades of grey in a photograph.

If they aren't there, it's not a proper exposure and/or printing of image.

Definitely back-in-the-day.

JND is a Just Noticeable Difference

It's difficult to do correctly. (Often done as subliminal to the viewer.)

It's often dependent upon the viewing distance between object and observer.

And this isn't about color, it's about photography and reality versus commercial art.

edit: Color is not the only thing that impresses the visual stimulus.

Great post!

In terms of zoning does the existence of a TRUE middle gray eliminate the need for the full grayscale?

[Clifford Automotive]

So I just took a look at my notes from my black and white photography.

Do you have a reference for 256 shades of grey? Because I only got 11. 0 thru X

0 being pure black and X being pure white?.

[ReconRat]

Great post!

In terms of zoning does the existence of a TRUE middle gray eliminate the need for the full grayscale?

Dang, I wish it did. I'd have done much better in those graduate level B&W courses at OSU. (All those are gone now, sad.) Unfortunately it's the two extremes of the grey scale that suffer, and have to be corrected, without the lose of the middle greys.

When checking a photo, if I remember rightly, it was always the highlights and shadows that I checked first. If I thought I could bring out more detail, then it was probably originally over saturated or under saturated and required correction. (Or bad contrast, and both ends of scale or middle are gone.) Once corrected, the middle greys might shift or vanish.

Bad contrast or exposure in an original are almost never recoverable. I would go the art route, and apply techniques to create something impressionable. Commercial art, in other words, not photography at that point. I would only do that if I thought I was losing an original exposure that I wanted really bad.

edit: I suppose you mean an 18% middle grey. I used 18% grey cards all the time.

It helped a lot. When without one, I set exposure on the green grass. That's close.

But if your subject was in the sun or shadow, you'd have to fight for exposure control.

The old method: black horse under the tree, over expose twice. White horse in the sun under expose twice. etc.

Edited August 20, 2009 by ReconRat
stuff

[ReconRat]

So I just took a look at my notes from my black and white photography.

Do you have a reference for 256 shades of grey? Because I only got 11. 0 thru X

0 being pure black and X being pure white?.

Eleven? Sounds limited to me. Or something high contrast. That must be something newer that I've not run into. Four are used in engraving. Like for a wood cut. JPEGs got 256 greys.

Not sure I can find reference to B&W photography, most stuff probably now for digital.

http://www.j-a-b.net/web/hue/color-grayscale

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grayscale

[fusion]

The zone system is 0 - 10 covering all gradations from pure black (0) to pure white (10).

[ReconRat]

The zone system is 0 - 10 covering all gradations from pure black (0) to pure white (10).

Yeah, ok... it's coming back to me now. (selective memory).

10 zone tried to replace 256 zone, and probably did.

256 zone was near impossible to do.

but getting close in 256 zone is a very good image.

10 zone is probably a lot quicker, and close enough.

I mean it's just saying that I got at least one of ~25 shades of grey in each of the ten or eleven zones.

edit: this post completely out-of-whack... see below...

Edited August 20, 2009 by ReconRat

[Artmageddon]

I'll be the spoiler here......

If you are a photographer, trying to be professional, and claiming to be knowledgeable, you should at least be familiar with the zone system. It's importance does lie in B & W, but still useful in color as well. It was probably the most innovative photo technique to happen in the past 100 years before digital. I'm only in my early 30's, so the technique is not outdated by any means.

Basic, (remember I said BASIC) color correction in Photoshop should be done by finding gray balance in either curves or levels. The three eyedroppers that are there? that is what they are for. You find your whitest white, blackest black and a middle gray (you can find these by watching the color values in the info palette: RGB is easiest, all 3 close to 255 is white, closet to 0 is black, and to find the gray you find 3 values that are close to equal, say 141-143-142.)

Now to be a critic.

The first two corrections look like someone that had Photoshop Elements for 2 days and was playing around and found the hyper-real button. Yeah, you the saturation tool may not have been used, but they are for sure over-saturated. I can see jpeg artifacts on the Attack bike. that is a no-no.

Evil-twin, I would consider yours pretty damn good. The tones are mostly correct, but the green did shift slightly.

Cliff, the one you did before the vignetting was pretty good, but then you overdid it.

I'm not for sure, but it looks like you are over-sharpening as well.

The B & W is pretty good.

Recon, I think you whites need to pop a bit more, but otherwise pretty good.

Tom, I don't think over-saturation sells. Bright colors that pop, sure, but hyper-real, no.

I'll post a few of mine in another message so just you don't think I'm full of shit.

[Clifford Automotive]

Eleven? Sounds limited to me. Or something high contrast. That must be something newer that I've not run into. Four are used in engraving. Like for a wood cut. JPEGs got 256 greys.

Not sure I can find reference to B&W photography, most stuff probably now for digital.

http://www.j-a-b.net/web/hue/color-grayscale

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grayscale

Thats it, you mixing arts. Your refering a jpeg, to B&W.

[Clifford Automotive]

I'll be the spoiler here......

If you are a photographer, trying to be professional, and claiming to be knowledgeable, you should at least be familiar with the zone system. It's importance does lie in B & W, but still useful in color as well. It was probably the most innovative photo technique to happen in the past 100 years before digital. I'm only in my early 30's, so the technique is not outdated by any means.

Basic, (remember I said BASIC) color correction in Photoshop should be done by finding gray balance in either curves or levels. The three eyedroppers that are there? that is what they are for. You find your whitest white, blackest black and a middle gray (you can find these by watching the color values in the info palette: RGB is easiest, all 3 close to 255 is white, closet to 0 is black, and to find the gray you find 3 values that are close to equal, say 141-143-142.)

Now to be a critic.

The first two corrections look like someone that had Photoshop Elements for 2 days and was playing around and found the hyper-real button. Yeah, you the saturation tool may not have been used, but they are for sure over-saturated. I can see jpeg artifacts on the Attack bike. that is a no-no.

Evil-twin, I would consider yours pretty damn good. The tones are mostly correct, but the green did shift slightly.

Cliff, the one you did before the vignetting was pretty good, but then you overdid it.

I'm not for sure, but it looks like you are over-sharpening as well.

The B & W is pretty good.

Recon, I think you whites need to pop a bit more, but otherwise pretty good.

Tom, I don't think over-saturation sells. Bright colors that pop, sure, but hyper-real, no.

I'll post a few of mine in another message so just you don't think I'm full of shit.

Very well stated...All of it.

The first images are all low-res images, pulled off stillmans photobucket.

[NightRider]

When it comes to business, its whatever sells.

And to crowds this sells...Some others may not like it, but the ones that dont like it, I probably wasnt trying to appeal to their taste anyway.

This is the background of my business card, the cards opacity is a lot less, and no black border.

You know this woman? Way....way too much glitter. She work at dreamgirls?

[Clifford Automotive]

10 zone tried to replace 256 zone, and probably did.

.

256 zones replaced 10 zones.

Basic B&W Photography

Expose for Shadows, Develop for Highlights

[ReconRat]

Thats it, you mixing arts. Your refering a jpeg, to B&W.

lol, jpegs are based on the concept of 256 zone.

We won't be able to seperate jpegs from black and white photography.

[ReconRat]

256 zones replaced 10 zones.

Basic B&W Photography

Expose for Shadows, Develop for Highlights

ok, thanks. I could barely remember anything about 10 zone, never really used it.

edit: dang it, now I remember using 10 zone when I was a teen....

you'all making my head hurt again...

Edited August 20, 2009 by ReconRat

[Clifford Automotive]

You know this woman? Way....way too much glitter. She work at dreamgirls?

I do actually, and Im sure you can see thats not a women. Shes doesnt have a job yet either!

[Clifford Automotive]

ok, thanks. I could barely remember anything about 10 zone, never really used it.

edit: dang it, now I remember using 10 zone when I was a teen....

you'all making my head hurt again...

I take it that B&W coarse didnt go to far?