Strictly Street Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 (edited) So, if the rider was traveling at a high rate of speed (to the point where said rider was not visible when she entered the intersection) it was the cage's fault?If it was dark, and the rider was traveling without a headlight and couldn't be seen by the driver, it was the driver's fault?Certainly I'm not disparaging the rider but there are at least TWO instances where the driver of the car would not be at fault, and your statement has no basis in fact - legally, technically, or otherwise.Please, if a meteor hit the car in the ass and pushed into the road...Or, if the unladen airspeed of a swallow was that of an African swallow while grasping a coconut by its husk.But, lets put that aside for the technically, legally part shall we?Ohio State Revised Code 4511.43 Right-of-way rule at through highways, stop signs, yield signs. (A) Except when directed to proceed by a law enforcement officer, every driver of a vehicle or trackless trolley approaching a stop sign shall stop at a clearly marked stop line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or, if none, then at the point nearest the intersecting roadway where the driver has a view of approaching traffic on the intersecting roadway before entering it. After having stopped, the driver shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle in the intersection or approaching on another roadway so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard during the time the driver is moving across or within the intersection or junction of roadways. (B) The driver of a vehicle or trackless trolley approaching a yield sign shall slow down to a speed reasonable for the existing conditions and, if required for safety to stop, shall stop at a clearly marked stop line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or, if none, then at the point nearest the intersecting roadway where the driver has a view of approaching traffic on the intersecting roadway before entering it. After slowing or stopping, the driver shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle or trackless trolley in the intersection or approaching on another roadway so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard during the time the driver is moving across or within the intersection or junction of roadways. Whenever a driver is involved in a collision with a vehicle or trackless trolley in the intersection or junction of roadways, after driving past a yield sign without stopping, the collision shall be prima-facie evidence of the driver’s failure to yield the right-of-way. © Except as otherwise provided in this division, whoever violates this section is guilty of a minor misdemeanor. If, within one year of the offense, the offender previously has been convicted of or pleaded guilty to one predicate motor vehicle or traffic offense, whoever violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. If, within one year of the offense, the offender previously has been convicted of two or more predicate motor vehicle or traffic offenses, whoever violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor of the third degree. Effective Date: 01-01-2004Cite:http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4511.43Um, yep, thats what I thought it said.Accident happened at 5:40 p.m, not dark yet.Speed was not mentioned, alcohol was not mentioned.Cell phone and/or texting was not mentioned.We can only guess at the reality. I'll guess the 60 yr old man was not going 200mph on a Busa with a burnt out headlight, just a guess.A traffic ticket is in order for this one. Isn't that what happens when it's car vs car? Why should it be different for Bike vs car?And there is that part about somebody died.How many times have people pulled out in front of you while you were doing everything right? Edited September 20, 2009 by Strictly Street Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alab32 Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Please, if a meteor hit the car in the ass and pushed into the road...Or, if the unladen airspeed of a swallow was that of an African swallow while grasping a coconut by its husk.But, lets put that aside for the technically, legally part shall we?Ohio State Revised Code4511.43 Right-of-way rule at through highways, stop signs, yield signs.(A) Except when directed to proceed by a law enforcement officer, every driver of a vehicle or trackless trolley approaching a stop sign shall stop at a clearly marked stop line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or, if none, then at the point nearest the intersecting roadway where the driver has a view of approaching traffic on the intersecting roadway before entering it. After having stopped, the driver shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle in the intersection or approaching on another roadway so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard during the time the driver is moving across or within the intersection or junction of roadways.(B) The driver of a vehicle or trackless trolley approaching a yield sign shall slow down to a speed reasonable for the existing conditions and, if required for safety to stop, shall stop at a clearly marked stop line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or, if none, then at the point nearest the intersecting roadway where the driver has a view of approaching traffic on the intersecting roadway before entering it. After slowing or stopping, the driver shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle or trackless trolley in the intersection or approaching on another roadway so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard during the time the driver is moving across or within the intersection or junction of roadways. Whenever a driver is involved in a collision with a vehicle or trackless trolley in the intersection or junction of roadways, after driving past a yield sign without stopping, the collision shall be prima-facie evidence of the driver’s failure to yield the right-of-way.© Except as otherwise provided in this division, whoever violates this section is guilty of a minor misdemeanor. If, within one year of the offense, the offender previously has been convicted of or pleaded guilty to one predicate motor vehicle or traffic offense, whoever violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. If, within one year of the offense, the offender previously has been convicted of two or more predicate motor vehicle or traffic offenses, whoever violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor of the third degree.Effective Date: 01-01-2004Cite:http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4511.43Um, yep, thats what I thought it said.Accident happened at 5:40 p.m, not dark yet.Speed was not mentioned, alcohol was not mentioned.Cell phone and/or texting was not mentioned.We can only guess at the reality. I'll guess the 60 yr old man was not going 200mph on a Busa with a burnt out headlight, just a guess.A traffic ticket is in order for this one. Isn't that what happens when it's car vs car? Why should it be different for Bike vs car?And there is that part about somebody died.How many times have people pulled out in front of you while you were doing everything right?I think you are missing what he said. You stated that the driver of the car is clearly at fault. This may very well be true but an investigation needs to be completed before it is confirmed. The driver of the bike may have been going over the speed limit. If this is the case, the driver of the car could be found not at fault. The driver of the bike could have had a headlight out, which is a REQUIRED piece of equipment on motorcycles, which made it difficult to see the motorcyclist. Therefor the driver of the car is not at fault. In cases other than what we have here, that a car had a stop sign and the bike didnt where the bike, or no one, is at fault are things like this; The persons car died while accelerating through the intersection (mechanical failure; no fault unless it is an inspection issue), motorcycleist doing "stunts" such as wheelies causing the headlight to not be seen (day or night, motorcycle at fault), motorcyclist failed to maintain lane/left of center (motorcyclist at fault). Just some things to think about. We are not necessarily saying that this motorcyclist is at fault, but until the investigation is complete it is impossible to say who is. If the cager is at fault, then ticket her. If not, then dont. That simple. You hypothetical situations are called acts of nature/God and would be no fault situations, the situations stated by Todd were legit possiblities that need to be looked at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd#43 Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Please, if a meteor hit the car in the ass and pushed into the road...Or, if the unladen airspeed of a swallow was that of an African swallow while grasping a coconut by its husk.But, lets put that aside for the technically, legally part shall we?Ohio State Revised Code 4511.43 Right-of-way rule at through highways, stop signs, yield signs. (A) Except when directed to proceed by a law enforcement officer, every driver of a vehicle or trackless trolley approaching a stop sign shall stop at a clearly marked stop line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or, if none, then at the point nearest the intersecting roadway where the driver has a view of approaching traffic on the intersecting roadway before entering it. After having stopped, the driver shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle in the intersection or approaching on another roadway so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard during the time the driver is moving across or within the intersection or junction of roadways. (B) The driver of a vehicle or trackless trolley approaching a yield sign shall slow down to a speed reasonable for the existing conditions and, if required for safety to stop, shall stop at a clearly marked stop line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or, if none, then at the point nearest the intersecting roadway where the driver has a view of approaching traffic on the intersecting roadway before entering it. After slowing or stopping, the driver shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle or trackless trolley in the intersection or approaching on another roadway so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard during the time the driver is moving across or within the intersection or junction of roadways. Whenever a driver is involved in a collision with a vehicle or trackless trolley in the intersection or junction of roadways, after driving past a yield sign without stopping, the collision shall be prima-facie evidence of the driver’s failure to yield the right-of-way. © Except as otherwise provided in this division, whoever violates this section is guilty of a minor misdemeanor. If, within one year of the offense, the offender previously has been convicted of or pleaded guilty to one predicate motor vehicle or traffic offense, whoever violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. If, within one year of the offense, the offender previously has been convicted of two or more predicate motor vehicle or traffic offenses, whoever violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor of the third degree. Effective Date: 01-01-2004Cite:http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4511.43Um, yep, thats what I thought it said.Accident happened at 5:40 p.m, not dark yet.Speed was not mentioned, alcohol was not mentioned.Cell phone and/or texting was not mentioned.We can only guess at the reality. I'll guess the 60 yr old man was not going 200mph on a Busa with a burnt out headlight, just a guess.A traffic ticket is in order for this one. Isn't that what happens when it's car vs car? Why should it be different for Bike vs car?And there is that part about somebody died.How many times have people pulled out in front of you while you were doing everything right?I added the proper emphasis for ya. You're right, due to the lack of information in the article we DON'T know the answers. The 60 year old man might not have been riding a 'busa at 200 MPH with a burnt out headlight. The speed to distance ration for him not to be seen by the driver may well have been far less.You seem to be quite certain that the driver of the car is at fault, yet you have no facts to back this up. Answer me this:Do you know how fast the rider of the motorcycle was going?Do you know anything about the topography of the area of the intersection in question?Do you know what type of bike the rider was riding?Do you know if the headlight was ON (as required by law)Were there any other conditions that could have affected the driver's visibility? (traveling from west to east? Sun? Physical obstructions at said intersection?)Unless you can answer those questions your assumption has no basis in fact, and becomes merely an opinion. Quit trying to justify it by citing traffic code. Everyone knows you're supposed to stop at a stop sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd#43 Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 I told you already... I've been down this road with OR.net. They aren't interested in facts or evidence. Why can't you see that' date=' guys? Sheeeesh.... [/quote']Seems to be a recurring theme with some people around here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd#43 Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Oh no!! Don't turn this into another political thread.. I don't think I could bear it. Awww....come on. Its fun, isnt it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWing'R Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Do you know anything about the topography of the area of the intersection in question?I know that intersection. If that rider was traveling NORTH and speeding at all they will have appeared at the intersection quickly as there is a crest in the road as it goes over I-70 right there. The intersection is just North of 70. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd#43 Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 I know that intersection. If that rider was traveling NORTH and speeding at all they will have appeared at the intersection quickly as there is a crest in the road as it goes over I-70 right there. The intersection is just North of 70.Well, there ya go.It was still the big bad car's fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmo Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Rip:( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWing'R Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 (edited) This is a street level view of the intersection. In this view, off in the distance behind the pickup truck is the crest in the road as it goes over I-70http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=1800+amity+rd+hilliard+oh&sll=39.982291,-83.22577&sspn=0.005919,0.009602&ie=UTF8&ll=39.983752,-83.228728&spn=0.00148,0.002401&z=19&iwloc=A&layer=c&cbll=39.983818,-83.22885&panoid=9NxQKLn9uw5KW9WvSRwJlA&cbp=13,139.3,,0,23.17 Edited September 20, 2009 by SWing'R Fixed link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd#43 Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 This is a street level view of the intersection. In this view' date=' off in the distance behind the pickup truck is the crest in the road as it goes over I-70[url']http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=1800+amity+rd+hilliard+oh&sll=39.982291,-83.22577&sspn=0.005919,0.009602&ie=UTF8&ll=39.983752,-83.228728&spn=0.00148,0.002401&z=19&iwloc=A&layer=c&cbll=39.983818,-83.22885&panoid=9NxQKLn9uw5KW9WvSRwJlA&cbp=13,139.3,,0,23.17Interesting..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Street Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 (edited) Your right, no facts to go on.Yet you still missed my point which is if she pulled out in front of him it is her fault.Thats it. There are two parts to the law, not just the "Everybody knows you have to stop at the sign"Stopping at the sign isn't all there is to it. You have to wait for the intersection to be clear before procceding.Of course there are any number of reasons why she didn't see him.Some are legally defensible, some aren't. Odd that you assume it was the riders fault. That he was doing something wrong to deserve to die.A lot of riders do stupid things and are killed, fact.A lot of cars do stupid things and kill riders, fact.Somebody died, somebody is getting a ticket.Just for the record, always on headlight is not required on all motorcycles.Older bikes manufactured before the law are exempt.Not that it is a good idea to ride with out it being on.just sayin' Edited September 20, 2009 by Strictly Street Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd#43 Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Um... I can't see anything' date=' but a big, black square. [/quote']Al Gore did it.You're in Ravenna....they don't want you to know there are other places to see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWing'R Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Just for the record, always on headlight is not required on all motorcycles.Older bikes manufactured before the law are exempt.Yep, 1978. Everything built AFTER that has automatically on headlights,plus, I poked around a few places and I can't even verify anywhere that it IS a law to have your headlight on during the day, everything I found says "after dusk" or something like that.Um... I can't see anything' date=' but a big, black square. [/quote']You probably don't have the required plug-in installed on your browser to use the "street view" function. I took a ride down this road and thru this intersection a little while ago with my camera running, I post vid of the intersection later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWing'R Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 (edited) I wasn't going very fast when I made this, had a van in front of me.Probably going around 55.Just reread the original story, the bike WAS traveling NORTH on Amity and the cage EAST on Roberts. So if the bike was travelin along at a good clipit would have been very easy for the driver to not see him as he came over thebridge if she only looked RIGHT once. She probably looked right then left and not right again.While it sounds like the cages fault, the rider should have slowed up approaching the intersectionespecially if there were cars present.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ8sEDoWaKw Edited September 21, 2009 by SWing'R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.