Health Ins. hike!

[Likwid]

Thanks for posting the explanation, I think our company calls them the FSA just for ease... the plan you mentioned was what I wanted to do but for me a lower deductible made more sense.

HSAs have come a long way, I know getting reimbursed in the past was a huge pain, for our plan it does everything automatifally, you pay then you get the amount direct deposited to your account... that being said, HSA is only worth it if you KNOW you're going to spend (if you have the non-rollover plans)

[20thGix]

After having to do our companies healthcare renewal over the last month the one thing I've learned is the rate hike is better than losing your job. Our goal was save the company money without losing the standard of quality of coverage. Well needless to say after much research it was either everyone has to pay a little more or we were gonna have to cut 2 people from our office (we only have 18 to begin with). From the employer stand point it is really difficult to find a win win situation for the company AND the employee in this current economic situation

And that is what they are doing this year along with the other cuts i mentioned at the begining of the thread. In the past 5 yrs. or so they would keep changing coverages to keep our premiums down. I cant blame them.

[Disclaimer]

Everyone needs to get their acronyms right...

HSA - Health SAVINGS account

FSA - Flexible SPENDING account

HRA - Health REIMBURSEMENT account

HRA - your provider puts money in on Jan 1st of the plan start. That money (all $2400 or whatever you get) is there for you to spend as soon as the plan begins. In this plan, whatever money you don't use, DOES NOT get rolled over to other years. You don't use it, you lose it - and next year your balance is once again, $2400.

FSA - This is like a mini account you can add money to PRE-TAX for your health care expenses. This is not a plan in itself, it's an add-on benefit to most plans. You use this account to cover what would normally be out-of-pocket expenses NOT covered under your regular plan. As with the HRA, whatever money you put on it, you lose at the end of the year - "Use it or lose it" type account. So, this is a great option to save a few dollars, but you need to forecast your health expenses each year PRIOR to setting up the account so you don't put too much money in. If your health spending is under control and you spend $500/yr on glasses/contacts and you KNOW you'll incur that expense, it's wise to use an FSA, put $500 on it, and spend that money each year. You're saving whatever that $500 would be PRE vs. POST-tax dollars (so $160? maybe).

HSA - You enroll in this plan, you/your companies gives you $2400/yr to spend, but you don't get it all the day you enroll. You get $200/mo... so if you have a metric shittonne of health expenses in January (assuming you don't have money already in this account from past years) - you're boned unless you can get the people billing you to wait a few months for payment as the account gets more money.

But, assuming you have an HSA and a few healthy years...the account ROLLS OVER each year. So, theoretically, 3 good years with no health expenses can net a balance of $2400x3 = $7200. That money can be invested/taken out for qualified expenses, etc. It's YOURS to take even if you switch employers - though it will get muddy if you enroll in a non-HSA plan in a new employer (that's too complex to discuss in this post). But, that $7200 is yours.

Like I said, you can spend it on qualified expenses - no penalty, or you can spend it on a new flatscreen TV, but non-qualified purchases are taxed - though I'm not sure the rate - regardless trust me when I say it's a large enough rate to discourage withdrawals for non-qualified purchases. Unless you just have been healthy for the last 20yrs, just bankin' money - you probably shouldn't take the hit for a non-qualified purchase.

Everyone clear? You guys don't have employers that explain all this stuff to you? We get a pamphlet every November to enroll for the new year that explains all this stuff.

Edited December 5, 2009 by JRMMiii

[serpentracer]

Methinks you don't understand how an HSA works. Pauly is on an HSA, I'm on an HSA...

Wrong, you're confusing HRA with HSA. I can take the money out of my HSA for a new motorcycle if I wanted to, but I'm charged taxes for non-qualified purchases.

Wrong again, once my balance hit $2000, I have the option to invest into select mutual funds or money markets.

To each their own... I disagree this is a wiser option. The admin of my HSA has still negotiated in-network providers at a lower cost. Not to mention an HSA is geared toward already healthy individuals. I have ZERO copays that allow me to see the dentist 2x a year, optometrist 1x a year, and doctor once a year - for free. I workout, watch my diet, and have excellent oral hygiene, so all I've really spent over the last 3 years I've been in the plan is $300 for my glasses and contacts.

It's a plan based on promoting preventative care. Not to mention that my deductible cap is $2700 out-of-pocket per year, which can all be covered by my HSA funds - so basically, something catastrophic happens, the max out-of-pocket I have to pay is $2700 - and like I said, I can cover that all with the funds in my HSA.

I'm not confusing anything...we had a rep come talk to us about it.

a HSA account is a fucking scam.

I'm not putting money in something (min a $1k) for some bank in iowa tell me what I can use it on and I can never have that money back. it can only be used for medical expenses at their discretion.

my Health insurance is Humana.

[Likwid]

I'm not confusing anything...we had a rep come talk to us about it.

a HSA account is a fucking scam.

I'm not putting money in something (min a $1k) for some bank in iowa tell me what I can use it on and I can never have that money back. it can only be used for medical expenses at their discretion.

my Health insurance is Humana.

*looks under the hood* See that? that's your problem right there...

You should get real insurance :-D

[serpentracer]

Everyone needs to get their acronyms right...

HSA - Health SAVINGS account

FSA - Flexible SPENDING account

HRA - Health REIMBURSEMENT account

HRA - your provider puts money in on Jan 1st of the plan start. That money (all $2400 or whatever you get) is there for you to spend as soon as the plan begins. In this plan, whatever money you don't use, DOES NOT get rolled over to other years. You don't use it, you lose it - and next year your balance is once again, $2400.

FSA - This is like a mini account you can add money to PRE-TAX for your health care expenses. This is not a plan in itself, it's an add-on benefit to most plans. You use this account to cover what would normally be out-of-pocket expenses NOT covered under your regular plan. As with the HRA, whatever money you put on it, you lose at the end of the year - "Use it or lose it" type account. So, this is a great option to save a few dollars, but you need to forecast your health expenses each year PRIOR to setting up the account so you don't put too much money in. If your health spending is under control and you spend $500/yr on glasses/contacts and you KNOW you'll incur that expense, it's wise to use an FSA, put $500 on it, and spend that money each year. You're saving whatever that $500 would be PRE vs. POST-tax dollars (so $160? maybe).

HSA - You enroll in this plan, you/your companies gives you $2400/yr to spend, but you don't get it all the day you enroll. You get $200/mo... so if you have a metric shittonne of health expenses in January (assuming you don't have money already in this account from past years) - you're boned unless you can get the people billing you to wait a few months for payment as the account gets more money.

But, assuming you have an HSA and a few healthy years...the account ROLLS OVER each year. So, theoretically, 3 good years with no health expenses can net a balance of $2400x3 = $7200. That money can be invested/taken out for qualified expenses, etc. It's YOURS to take even if you switch employers - though it will get muddy if you enroll in a non-HSA plan in a new employer (that's too complex to discuss in this post). But, that $7200 is yours.

Like I said, you can spend it on qualified expenses - no penalty, or you can spend it on a new flatscreen TV, but non-qualified purchases are taxed - though I'm not sure the rate - regardless trust me when I say it's a large enough rate to discourage withdrawals for non-qualified purchases. Unless you just have been healthy for the last 20yrs, just bankin' money - you probably shouldn't take the hit for a non-qualified purchase.

Everyone clear? You guys don't have employers that explain all this stuff to you? We get a pamphlet every November to enroll for the new year that explains all this stuff.

none of that about the HSA is right. that might be how yours works but mine isn't anything like that.

first of all, I have to put 100% of the money into it. thats up to your company if they match you or not. like how a 401k works.

I dont know where you get that you can get that money back. mine doesn't work that way. once it's in, it's there for life and you cannot withdraw it. they give you a debit card but you can only use it for medical stuff. doctor visits, perscriptions etc etc.

the only thing that would make it worth while is if your company matches what you put in.

it just wasn't even worth it. only 2 of 20 of us bothered with it.

Edited December 7, 2009 by serpentracer

[Disclaimer]

I don't know what to tell you then. My HSA is awesome. I pay health insurance premiums to my employer out of my paycheck, and they in turn put a much larger amount in my HSA account for me each year to use.

I can use that money for band-aids, pills, Lasik surgery, etc. I can use that to buy a new computer if I wanted, but I'd be taxed. That is MY money to do with what I please regardless if I'm still an employee of theirs or not. I can access it with my HSA debit/credit card anywhere there's an ATM or where VISA is accepted (Including my optometrist and Best Buy).

So, HSA's aren't scams, they're actually pretty good if you educate yourself on your health options and are fiscally savvy. Sounds more like Humana's version of an HSA is the scam.

[Likwid]

I don't know what to tell you then. My HSA is awesome. I pay health insurance premiums to my employer out of my paycheck, and they in turn put a much larger amount in my HSA account for me each year to use.

I can use that money for band-aids, pills, Lasik surgery, etc. I can use that to buy a new computer if I wanted, but I'd be taxed. That is MY money to do with what I please regardless if I'm still an employee of theirs or not. I can access it with my HSA debit/credit card anywhere there's an ATM of where VISA is accepted.

So, HSA's aren't scams, they're actually pretty good if you educate yourself on your health options and are fiscally savvy. Sounds more like Humana's version of an HSA is the scam.

Mien is similar but I don't get a visa card and it doesn't rollover, so by your definition earlier mine isn't an HSA....

whatever, I don't care what it's called, I put $1500 in it because I know we're going to have a covered expense in 2010 that is more than that... means I get a tax savings AND I get to spread the cost of the medical procedure over the year via pre-tax dollars... it's like an interest free installment plan

[serpentracer]

*looks under the hood* See that? that's your problem right there...

You should get real insurance :-D

I used to have some of the best insurance around.

I paid $0 for it and it covered everything 100% with a $200 deductable.

the new owner decided to go the cheap route on us.

now we have to pay and have a lousy $1500 deductable with a scam HSA account. the only good thing about it is everything is 100% coverage.

Edited December 7, 2009 by serpentracer

[Disclaimer]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_savings_account

A health savings account (HSA), is a tax-advantaged medical savings account available to taxpayers in the United States who are enrolled in a High Deductible Health Plan (HDHP). The funds contributed to the account are not subject to federal income tax at the time of deposit. Unlike a flexible spending account (FSA), funds roll over and accumulate year to year if not spent. HSAs are owned by the individual, which differentiates them from the company-owned Health Reimbursement Arrangement (HRA) that is an alternate tax-deductible source of funds paired with HDHPs. Funds may be used to pay for qualified medical expenses at any time without federal tax liability. Withdrawals for non-medical expenses are treated very similarly to those in an IRA in that they may provide tax advantages if taken after retirement age, and they incur penalties if taken earlier. These accounts are a component of consumer driven health care.

Proponents of HSAs believe that they are an important reform that will help reduce the growth of health care costs and increase the efficiency of the health care system. According to proponents, HSAs encourage saving for future health care expenses, allow the patient to receive needed care without a gate keeper to determine what benefits are allowed and make consumers more responsible for their own health care choices through the required High-Deductible Health Plan.

Opponents of HSAs say they worsen, rather than improve, the U.S. health system's problems because people who are healthy will leave insurance plans while people who have health problems will avoid HSAs. There is also debate about consumer satisfaction with these plans.

Edited December 7, 2009 by JRMMiii

[Likwid]

Oh ok, so I DO have an HSA that just doesn't belong to me?

*watches JRM's head explode*

[serpentracer]

now that I found the paperwork it's not humaha's hsa. it's through a bank called UMB.

why the fuck would I even want an account with a bank that isn't even local to me?

[Likwid]

now that I found the paperwork it's not humaha's hsa. it's through a bank called UMB.

why the fuck would I even want an account with a bank that isn't even local to me?

I just recently closed my accounts with the "local" bank (since it went out of business)... opened accounts with 2 internet banks.... far better interest and I don't need a branch...

HSBC refunds ATM fees so I can continue to use my local ATM

[Disclaimer]

Is everything clear here, now?

You were awful adamant about arguing against an HSA when you were mistaken about it, serpent.

[serpentracer]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_savings_account

quote the rest of the details....

you missed some of the bs about the taxation of your withdraws etc.

I thought it's "your" money? if it was you'd be able to withdraw it without penalties.

[shittygsxr]

quote the rest of the details....

you missed some of the bs about the taxation of your withdraws etc.

I thought it's "your" money? if it was you'd be able to withdraw it without penalties.

I guess my retirement account isn't my money because I would have to pay a penalty if I withdrew it early

[Likwid]

quote the rest of the details....

you missed some of the bs about the taxation of your withdraws etc.

I thought it's "your" money? if it was you'd be able to withdraw it without penalties.

Ummmm, by that same argument a 401k and IRA aren't YOUR'S either because you have withdrawal penalties....

It's the same with ANYTHING you fund with pre-tax dollars.

[Disclaimer]

1) it IS your money placed into the account on your behalf. For me, my employer does it. I give them 'x' dollars a month, and they put in approximately '2x' dollars into the account for me

2) There will be penalties if you withdrawal it for NON-QUALIFIED EXPENSES, as in the IRS code.

I don't see what's so difficult to figure out. If they didn't make penalties for withdrawal for non-qualified expenses, people would launder pre-tax money right through that account...

[serpentracer]

Funds can be withdrawn for any reason, but withdrawals that are not for documented qualified medical expenses are subject to income taxes and a 10% penalty.

funds are not subject to income taxation if made for qualified medical expenses.

some key words...qualified. that means it has to fall under what they considered qualified. just like I said.

the other key words... tax penalty.

use if for anything else they slap you with a 10% tax.

[Disclaimer]

What's

Your

Point?

[shittygsxr]

Funds can be withdrawn for any reason, but withdrawals that are not for documented qualified medical expenses are subject to income taxes and a 10% penalty.

funds are not subject to income taxation if made for qualified medical expenses.

some key words...qualified. that means it has to fall under what they considered qualified. just like I said.

the other key words... tax penalty.

use if for anything else they slap you with a 10% tax.

those are the same rules that any pre-tax retirement account follows

[serpentracer]

http://blog.healthcareforamericanow.org/2008/08/02/health-savings-accounts-are-a-scam/

[Likwid]

You should quote a more extremist website, it would help even more!

[Disclaimer]

All that information was in the wiki article... the Pros and Cons, the people who are for these and against these.

I'm young and healthy. HSA is the way to go for me. I might be pro-healthcare reform, but I still have to make smart economic decisions with my current healthcare. Worst case scenario, I save a shit tonne of money on a HSA until I turn 50, then spend all that money I banked on traditional plans to cover all the shit I'll need when I get older.

If you're sick all the time, need lots of prescripts, you need a traditional higher premium plan.

An HSA isn't a scam, it just doesn't work for you. I don't need higher premiums to pay for prescription drugs I don't need.

[serpentracer]

You should quote a more extremist website, it would help even more!

better? btw, it's the mayoclinics website...you've heard of the mayo clinic right?

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/health-savings-accounts/GA00053