Thoughts on Arizona immigration law?

[swingset]

However, when you post dumb shit like this, be prepared to be corrected by someone who knows more than you do.

It's not dumb shit, in fact it's a salient and important point in this whole debate, and so far nobody seems to be schooling me on anything, except how to throw around the insults unprovoked. I'll quote a good point where I find it, whether it's Malkin or Christopher Hitchens, or NPR, I'm not an idealogue for anyone, a good point is a good point.

Did you read this in the above?

All of these provisions are enshrined in Mexico’s Ley General de Población (General Law of the Population) and were spotlighted in a 2006 research paper published by the Washington, D.C.-based Center for Security Policy. There’s been no public clamor for “comprehensive immigration reform” in Mexico, however, because pro-illegal alien speech by outsiders is prohibited.

This is the part that follows what you claim are her generalizations. She does not contend that Mexico is efficient or universal with their policy & law, only that it exists.

Think about that for a minute, ruminate on it.

Stupid shit I posted? It's directly from Mexican law, quoted from Michelle Malkin, who does not claim Mexico is enforcing all of these immigration policies, only that there exists a hypocricy about what Mexican officials have for their own country and what they demand of us.

[Cheech]

This is the part that follows what you claim are her generalizations. She does not contend that Mexico is efficient or universal with their policy & law, only that it exists.

Think about that for a minute, ruminate on it.

Stupid shit I posted? It's directly from Mexican law, quoted from Michelle Malkin, who does not claim Mexico is enforcing all of these immigration policies, only that there exists a hypocricy about what Mexican officials have for their own country and what they demand of us.

Goddamnit, I have to leave for QS&L but this is just too good.

Then why does she (and you, since you are using her words as your mouthpiece) use a law that is clearly non-universal and only meant for the southern border areas as a generalization for the entire country? I can absolutely tell you that if that law does exist (and based on what I've heard on the southern border issue, it probably does) it is not applied or probably even valid for the northern border area. Ergo, your quote argument as applied is invalid.

[Disclaimer]

10 points for patronizing, infantile retort that misses the point.

The argument in the terms she framed it is 100% accurate. Mexico cultivates, encourages, and ultimately profits from the illegals coming into our country, yet they are iron-fisted when dealing with immigration of the exact same type....and have the audacity to complain about our enforcement of our borders, claiming xenophobia and racism when they practice it wholesale.

If you despise the right wing pundits so much, it must be doubly frustrating when they're outsmarting you.

Well, I've been treated nothing but well during my travels to Acuna, Reynosa, Mexico City, Monterrey, Queretaro... and even a few of the resort towns.

So, you take Michelle Malkin's word, and I'll take my experiences - mmkay. Cheech has pretty much covered the valid points... the day I'm "outsmarted" by right wing pundits, is the day I become one.

[swingset]

I so want a 3-way with Michelle and Ann... just sayin' :smile:

I'd stuff a $1 in either one's panties, if there were free wings that night.

[swingset]

Well, I've been treated nothing but well during my travels to Acuna, Reynosa, Mexico City, Monterrey, Queretaro... and even a few of the resort towns.

So, you take Michelle Malkin's word, and I'll take my experiences - mmkay. Cheech has pretty much covered the valid points... the day I'm "outsmarted" by right wing pundits, is the day I become one.

What word of Malkin's am I taking? She's not telling stories, she's quoting Mexican law. You can google that law, she's not exaggerating or changing it.

And, I asked you about crossing the southern Mexican border, not visiting their cities. There's a reason I mentioned it, because that southern border is FUCKING TIGHT, and you can observe the scrutiny they give their southern neighbors (and how this might change your perception of their immigration policies and criticism of our own). Again, avoiding my point completely. I guess its easier to change the argument than face an untenable position.

[jporter12]

Goddamnit, I have to leave for QS&L but this is just too good.

Then why does she (and you, since you are using her words as your mouthpiece) use a law that is clearly non-universal and only meant for the southern border areas as a generalization for the entire country? I can absolutely tell you that if that law does exist (and based on what I've heard on the southern border issue, it probably does) it is not applied or probably even valid for the northern border area. Ergo, your quote argument as applied is invalid.

The disparity in how their law is enforced does not make it invalid on the northern border, any more than it does here in the U.S.A. does it? Let's face it, terrorists can come in from either way (referring the DHS involvement.)

So, Cheech, you've never gotten a work permit, or visa when you've been there to work? Every time I went there for my former job, that was the first thing we did, because some of the guys that had been there other times before me had been checked, verifying that they DO check this stuff!

[jporter12]

Well, I've been treated nothing but well during my travels to Acuna, Reynosa, Mexico City, Monterrey, Queretaro... and even a few of the resort towns.

I've been to Reynosa and Monterrey as well, without incident, and we were treated well, better than by some co-workers! When in the border towns, did you stay in Mexico, or stay in McAllen and cross the border everyday?

[Disclaimer]

I stay in Del Rio when I'm in Acuna, and McAllen when I'm in Reynosa. So, no I don't stay in Mexico when I'm on the border, I stay in the US and commute across every morning and afternoon.

[psyco1]

My parents might support this now, but when the supply of that cheap cheap labor dries up they'll complain about how everything is so terrible because things cost too damn much and never put two and two together.

[Disclaimer]

This probably isn't a good thing for the 'fixed income' crowd... (adding to what psycho1 said)

[swingset]

My parents might support this now, but when the supply of that cheap cheap labor dries up they'll complain about how everything is so terrible because things cost too damn much and never put two and two together.

Well, I'm all for eroding the safety of our nation, ignoring immigration law and paying for all the freeloaders as long as my shit is cheap. Fuck yeah.

Or, we could just make work visas a little easier to achieve, and allow the honest hardworking folks a chance to come here and do what needs to be done. I'd pay a little more for services, if it would improve our situation and theirs.

Or, we could just keep on letting them pour across the borders with the criminals and shit heads running right with them, and allowing them to live off the grid like non-people. That's mighty white of us.

[swingset]

This probably isn't a good thing for the 'fixed income' crowd... (adding to what psycho1 said)

It's not good for them with unchecked illegal immigration, either. Fixed income people need a lot of the services that illegals choke the system with, including health care.

Oh, but this is all about caring about everyone.

[Disclaimer]

Show me where 'illegals' are 'choking' out the same services (ala Health Care) that the elderly need?

The only illegals I've seen at the nursing homes are the ones tending to the landscaping.

[chevysoldier]

The only illegals I've seen at the nursing homes are the ones tending to the landscaping.

What are you implying?

[Disclaimer]

I made a blatantly stereotypical racist joke.

Watch and learn.

+

Black Tod will be posting up here in no time.

[chevysoldier]

Just wanted to make sure...

[swingset]

Show me where 'illegals' are 'choking' out the same services (ala Health Care) that the elderly need?

The only illegals I've seen at the nursing homes are the ones tending to the landscaping.

You implying that all elderly people are confined to nursing homes, or receive their care there?

Jesus Christ dude. I don't even know how to argue with shit like that. I don't think I have to.

Google "illegal immigrants strain healthcare" or any number of common sense search criteria, and you'll spend the rest of the week reading about such drains on hospitals, doctors, etc. Here, first thing that popped up for about 32,000 hits:

http://www.amarillo.com/stories/111906/new_6100844.shtml

This is like playing tennis with a wall. The ball keeps coming back, but I'm not sure the wall understands the game and for sure the volleys aren't very imaginative.

Try harder.

[Disclaimer]

Dude, I get it that illegals can strain the system.

You're the one that implied they're taking from the elderly. I don't know why you assume that the elderly utilize the SAME health services as illegals and that's what's causing a bottleneck.

For EXAMPLE... using your link

In most communities wrestling with this issue, the biggest chunk of money is for delivering babies. In Dallas County for example, a recent survey showed that in the first three months of 2006, 70 percent of all women who gave birth were here illegally. And in Oklahoma, 83 percent of the money spent on illegal immigrants is in maternity wards.

How many elderly people do you think are using maternity ward services? Guesses?

Try harder.

[Fonzie]

I mentioned showing ID when in a vehicle that was stopped, where someone else was driving. He said that he has challenged LEO's before on the need to know who he is, that he wasn't the one being stopped, and that he was abiding by all the laws.

I challenged a Swanton cop on that several years ago. Forget how it ended, but I don't remember being cuffed... That time

[jporter12]

Is your libertarian buddy a white guy? I'm not one who tries to find racism in all situations, but let's be honest here; if a cop pulls white, 27-yr-old, clean-cut, 'me' over, and sees my 25-yr-old, harmless, white wife in the passenger seat, she can get away with a lot more, "I don't have to provide you my drivers license" statements than a male minority between age 17 and 30 can.

You can claim that's profiling, or you can claim that's the cop basing his judgment on factual statistical data. Either way, the minority male can make the same statement to authorities with very different results.

Ever seen an episode of "COPS" where a white woman is enraged about being pulled over and screams at the officer, and demands his 'badge number?' ya think that would go the same way if it weren't a white female? hell no.

Yes, he's white, long haired at the time, not exactly clean cut, harley dude. He was probably legally armed at the time, as well.

I challenged a Swanton cop on that several years ago. Forget how it ended, but I don't remember being cuffed... That time

Hmm.. sounds like a fun time was had!

[chevysoldier]

Yes, he's white, long haired at the time, not exactly clean cut, harley dude. He was probably legally armed at the time, as well.

[jporter12]

Which part was funny? Just the fact that you know who I'm talking about?

[chevysoldier]

Which part was funny? Just the fact that you know who I'm talking about?

That and probably being legally armed. Maybe.

[Uncle Punk]

[Disclaimer]

Ohhh, now you're just profiling.... not all whites are image obsessed bad dancing trailer park trash serial killers.