Want to start racing and need info, advice, general questions...

[asian900ss]

Ok some of you know me if you have been around for a while other may not, may have heard stories about me in a diaper... thats not what this is about. Anyone that races/has raced/or knows first hand about what it takes to get started I am seeking your advice and knowledge. I am going to have a Ducati 900ss(944) to track. I am very interested in starting to race. I would like to know what the general cost is for a race. What is a good class (heard light weight twins)? And what are the benefits to racing as far as discounted track days. I have track time and not looking to kick Stoners ass or anything. I just want a way to meet peeps, have some competition (besides drunk wrestling with Yota) and have a good time.

Thank you for you responses and please feel free to PM me or facebook, or you can just post it here.

Regards,

The Iraqi Ass Kicking Ninja

[Dubguy85]

REad this http://www.ohio-riders.com/showthread.php?t=35417

Then jump on Wera and talk to those guys...

[Moto-Brian]

My suggestion is buy a new bike. The 900 you have may or may not be allowed in LW Twins. Either way, you are probably going to be beaten by SV650s a good amount. They are what I would consider if thinking about running LW Twins class...

That aside and if that's what you're sticking with, costs are very much different based on who you ask.

My opinion is that if you are going to do it, do it right. A lot of guys never freshen up suspension, they never do regular maintenance to their machines and they don't even consider the load they put on a motor.

Costs are much more than entry fees and tires.

you have these to consider:

1) Hotel or cost of camping. Get a good night sleep. Your results will reflect this...

2) Maintaining the tow rig and trailer. Oil changes, gas, tires, etc. All are expenses that occur due to traveling for races. You don't consider these important until you look at the end of the year and realize just how much you've spent traveling...

3) Maintaining the bike itself. Even if you go the cheap and not suggested route of just changing oil, gas and tires, those items add up. Oil and filters, fuel at the events, chemicals needed to clean and maintain like brake fluid, chain lube, contact cleaner, etc.

4) Spares. SPARES. BUY SPARES. They cost a bit and hopefully, you never use them. But, to miss a race because you cannot find someone with a shifter bolt is pure suck and can be avoided easily. Bolts, clip-ons, chains, sprockets, levers, rearset parts, etc. Wear and tear and crash replacement...

5) Suspension. Buy it, maintain it and run it. Guys that have Ohlins front and rear and have three seasons on it w/o ever being freshened up are basically running on pure shit. They'd not know what to do if they freshened it up twice or at minimum, once a year... Both ends... It's cheap and will help tremendously.

6) Motor. Get it fresh to start. Running on a bike with 10k miles and then racing it is a recipe for failure. Failure costs a pile of cash. Get it tuned up, freshened up and you'll get a lot more out of it...

7) Race fees. Usually $85 for one, $65 for the next and each after. Basically, $150 for 20 laps and short practice and $20 to get in. $100 for the license and the rest is up to you...

In the end, a race season is expensive. We used to do $40k a year and that wasn't enough. Sprint racing, it was less, but not by much... Even on a shoe string budget, I'd wager, $1k is just getting by. Barely.

[rusty]

My suggestion is buy a new bike. The 900 you have may or may not be allowed in LW Twins. Either way, you are probably going to be beaten by SV650s a good amount. They are what I would consider if thinking about running LW Twins class...

That aside and if that's what you're sticking with, costs are very much different based on who you ask.

My opinion is that if you are going to do it, do it right. A lot of guys never freshen up suspension, they never do regular maintenance to their machines and they don't even consider the load they put on a motor.

Costs are much more than entry fees and tires.

you have these to consider:

1) Hotel or cost of camping. Get a good night sleep. Your results will reflect this...

2) Maintaining the tow rig and trailer. Oil changes, gas, tires, etc. All are expenses that occur due to traveling for races. You don't consider these important until you look at the end of the year and realize just how much you've spent traveling...

3) Maintaining the bike itself. Even if you go the cheap and not suggested route of just changing oil, gas and tires, those items add up. Oil and filters, fuel at the events, chemicals needed to clean and maintain like brake fluid, chain lube, contact cleaner, etc.

4) Spares. SPARES. BUY SPARES. They cost a bit and hopefully, you never use them. But, to miss a race because you cannot find someone with a shifter bolt is pure suck and can be avoided easily. Bolts, clip-ons, chains, sprockets, levers, rearset parts, etc. Wear and tear and crash replacement...

5) Suspension. Buy it, maintain it and run it. Guys that have Ohlins front and rear and have three seasons on it w/o ever being freshened up are basically running on pure shit. They'd not know what to do if they freshened it up twice or at minimum, once a year... Both ends... It's cheap and will help tremendously.

6) Motor. Get it fresh to start. Running on a bike with 10k miles and then racing it is a recipe for failure. Failure costs a pile of cash. Get it tuned up, freshened up and you'll get a lot more out of it...

7) Race fees. Usually $85 for one, $65 for the next and each after. Basically, $150 for 20 laps and short practice and $20 to get in. $100 for the license and the rest is up to you...

In the end, a race season is expensive. We used to do $40k a year and that wasn't enough. Sprint racing, it was less, but not by much... Even on a shoe string budget, I'd wager, $1k is just getting by. Barely.

thats why i am sticking just with track days,so i can do 4 of them every month

[redkow97]

Like Brian said, a 900ss is going to be weird as far as classes... I'm certainly no savant with the WERA rule book, but something more common will be legal for more races.

LW twins (SV650) is certainly a great way to go.

The EX250 class is probably even cheaper though. Slower, but those guys seem to have a blast. You'll use even fewer tires too.

And don't write-off the Vintage classes. V7 allows 90's 600's like the F2/F3, ZX6, and so on. And if you want to, you're still legal for the C superstock ("meat grinder") races. you'll likely get your ass handed to you by bikes with 25 more hp and 40 fewer lbs. of mass, but a good enough rider could still finish in the top 50% of the pack.

the absolute best thing you can do though is attend a full race weekend as a spectator and just observe and learn.

I assume you've been to track days. I took my best lap time at a given track, added 2 seconds to it, and watched how I would have done if I averaged that pace throughout the middleweight solo 20 and C superstock races.

The top 5 riders would have lapped me, but I would have finished above the bottom 25%.

make a budget, and then assume you're going to spend twice that much.

[Uncle Punk]

make a budget, and then assume you're going to spend twice that much.

This

[gixxie750]

ITS fun!!! DO IT! Come with us to a wera race and try it. Gona be at least $500+gas and tires

[Moto-Brian]

ITS fun!!! DO IT! Come with us to a wera race and try it. Gona be at least $500+gas and tires

Like I said, minimum $1k a weekend on a shoe string budget.

Tires are $380-$400 a set... Gas is going to be about $50...

[gixxie750]

1K is deff fair. The first weekend is the most $$$$$$ also.

Race school $100

join race org$110

rent transponder$60 or buy $350

1st weekend u school all sat with mock race at the end,thens sunday races are $85 first race +/-

$75 second +/-

Travel cost can be cut in 1/4th if u go with people.

[asian900ss]

WOW! I am glad I made this post! Thank you guys for all of the input. GIXXIE750, I would love to go watch a race weekend and take Brians advise at the same time and then maybe tag along for a second and do a race. As you may or may not know I am in Iraq right now but returning home soon (AUG). And yes I have done a fair amount of track days, always improving and getting lessons from racers every chance I get. Thanks again guys

[redkow97]

I think Brian is spot-on with all his advice, if you plan to be competitive.

Gixxie's estimates are more reasonable though for those of us who just want to go out there an get our feet wet.

$1k a weekend is necessary if you want to give yourself the best chance of winning against the other really fast guys out there. The "serious" racers will have fresh tires and completely tricked-out bikes that are less than 2 years old (and thus available for factory contingency).

...but there's still quite a few people like you and me (and it sounds like Gixxie750) who will start the vast majority of races on well-used tires, 3-9 year old bikes, and be happy with the occasional race win (hell, even top 5) against other riders with similar budget restrictions.

Trackdays have changed racing a ton over the last 10 years. Talk to the old-timers, and you won't believe how things used to be. The "novice" grid used to be street-bikes with number plates. Tire warmers were rarely seen on a bike with a yellow plate.

Now you've got "A" group trackday guys who show up with race tires, warmers, full Ohlins suspension, quick shifters, GPS lap timers, etc. for their FIRST race. They're "novices?" Only in name.

I didn't race last year because my wife found (and read) our life insurance policy. Gotta be 2 years in before they stop asking questions about my 'risky' habits I hope to make it onto a grid toward the end of this year. I'll be on Dunlop Qualifiers. If I have warmers, they'll be borrowed. I'll get my ass handed to me by at least half the field ...but somebody's gotta be last. It won't always be me.

Edited May 27, 2010 by redkow97

[Moto-Brian]

I think Brian is spot-on with all his advice, if you plan to be competitive.

Gixxie's estimates are more reasonable though for those of us who just want to go out there an get our feet wet.

$1k a weekend is necessary if you want to give yourself the best chance of winning against the other really fast guys out there. The "serious" racers will have fresh tires and completely tricked-out bikes that are less than 2 years old (and thus available for factory contingency).

...but there's still quite a few people like you and me (and it sounds like Gixxie750) who will start the vast majority of races on well-used tires, 3-9 year old bikes, and be happy with the occasional race win (hell, even top 5) against other riders with similar budget restrictions.

Trackdays have changed racing a ton over the last 10 years. Talk to the old-timers, and you won't believe how things used to be. The "novice" grid used to be street-bikes with number plates. Tire warmers were rarely seen on a bike with a yellow plate.

Now you've got "A" group trackday guys who show up with race tires, warmers, full Ohlins suspension, quick shifters, GPS lap timers, etc. for their FIRST race. They're "novices?" Only in name.

I didn't race last year because my wife found (and read) our life insurance policy. Gotta be 2 years in before they stop asking questions about my 'risky' habits I hope to make it onto a grid toward the end of this year. I'll be on Dunlop Qualifiers. If I have warmers, they'll be borrowed. I'll get my ass handed to me by at least half the field ...but somebody's gotta be last. It won't always be me.

$1k a weekend isn't going to get you up with the top guys... Think more along the lines of about $2k and average a LOT more as they do motor builds each year and motor freshening at the end of the same year. It's costly to win at the top...

My overall suggestion before you go balls deep into racing? Go do some track days and really get yourself acclimated to track riding aggressively with control. My $.02 as we never had track days back when I started...

[asian900ss]

Ok I like all the advise Brian and thank you once again. I guess I can spend the few track times (5 or so) when I get back and do some hard riding and then re-think this. Thanks again guys

[flounder]

Ok I like all the advise Brian and thank you once again. I guess I can spend the few track times (5 or so) when I get back and do some hard riding and then re-think this. Thanks again guys

Save your money until you can beat me around the track.

And make sure you look at the gas valve sticker on your bike and actually turn on your gas this time.

[idodishez]

ITS fun!!! DO IT! Come with us to a wera race and try it. Gona be at least $500+gas and tires

Where is the closest one?

[gixxie750]

Where is the closest one?

At this point in the year the closest will prob be nashville or grattan,MI. Also nelson ledges (N ohio )has allot of races.

[idodishez]

At this point in the year the closest will prob be nashville or grattan,MI. Also nelson ledges (N ohio )has allot of races.

I might like to go as an observer. If anyone ends up going, please post.

[gixxie750]

if u just want to see it come to mid ohio july 12/13th. Its a race ran by wera/ama.

[idodishez]

if u just want to see it come to mid ohio july 12/13th. Its a race ran by wera/ama.

I may do that. Thanks for the info

[jsheikh]

I know im a complete noob to this so i apologize if any questions i ask sound ridiculous....

Are these races strictly for fun up-beat competition or do you actually get paid for winning races?.. I cant imagine spending sooo much money yearly without coming out with a paycheck... If so, what are the winnings like?

[redkow97]

I know im a complete noob to this so i apologize if any questions i ask sound ridiculous....

Are these races strictly for fun up-beat competition or do you actually get paid for winning races?.. I cant imagine spending sooo much money yearly without coming out with a paycheck... If so, what are the winnings like?

the fastest guys get paid, but none of them actually MAKE money. they MIGHT hope to break even.

99% of winnings are in contingency dollars. You register with a vendor to be your "sponsor," then you use their product, and put their stickers on your bike.

If you podium, the race org will note your sponsors during post-race tech inspection, and they'll mail you a check, or, more likely, a coupon for $200 off your next purchase from them (helps a TON with tires).

there are a TON of vendors who will be your sponsor, with varying requirements. A "big" race weekend is when it's a manufacturer paying weekend. Robert Jensen smoked my ass on a ZX6 at BeaveRun last year. I was doing a race school. He was practicing for the WERA round the next day where Kawasaki was paying contingency. Your bike has to be less than 2 years old to qualify for factory contingency though, that's why there are so many 2 year old race bikes on the WERA board.

Edited June 5, 2010 by redkow97

[jsheikh]

Ah ic.. damn thats deep. So is there any chance of MAKING money with a combination of winnings and sponsors? Or is it that you have to be one of the most top notch racers to pull that off?

[Moto-Brian]

the fastest guys get paid, but none of them actually MAKE money. they MIGHT hope to break even.

99% of winnings are in contingency dollars. You register with a vendor to be your "sponsor," then you use their product, and put their stickers on your bike.

If you podium, the race org will note your sponsors during post-race tech inspection, and they'll mail you a check, or, more likely, a coupon for $200 off your next purchase from them (helps a TON with tires).

there are a TON of vendors who will be your sponsor, with varying requirements. A "big" race weekend is when it's a manufacturer paying weekend. Robert Jensen smoked my ass on a ZX6 at BeaveRun last year. I was doing a race school. He was practicing for the WERA round the next day where Kawasaki was paying contingency. Your bike has to be less than 2 years old to qualify for factory contingency though, that's why there are so many 2 year old race bikes on the WERA board.

Trust me, you can make money racing. The rider you used as an example (Robbie) makes 6 figures racing each year. Not this year due to lack of payouts, but you can make a living doing this and there are several bounty hunters in the US do... or did...

As for being a novice racer, they too can make money. very possible, but you have to be very good and a lot are not good enough.

Typically, you're going to be able to break even if you are decent, but that's rare, as well...

Basically, the idea is when you start (a lot do as it is VERY accessible nowadays) racing, you get better and make the steps up the ladder. Starting out is something everyone does, but the ones that make it to a point where they race successfully at a national level is very limited and weened out by that point...

[Moto-Brian]

Ah ic.. damn thats deep. So is there any chance of MAKING money with a combination of winnings and sponsors? Or is it that you have to be one of the most top notch racers to pull that off?

You can make money. It's a matter of making a profit... You can win hundreds easily by winning contingencies. Thousands if it is OEM stuff. But, the idea is unless you are at the top of the ladder, you ain't making a living doing this...

[jsheikh]

ahh i gotcha... ya i dont figure most make a living of doing this but was wondering how feasibly profitable it is as a hobby haha... my favorite hobbies are the ones that make you $$$