head gasket replacement, easy or no?

[jporter12]

1-no , im not a mechanic, if that s what ur asking

2- i said silicone for the valve cover gaskets, not the head gasket

3- i said i could help him out with the parts, not repairs like you re claiming

4-when i mentioned engine swap, i was talking from the ease of the job and cost stand point.

Dude, no silicone is needed, or even recommended for that entire job! The only place I use RTV on that engine is where the oil pan gasket meets the front cover gasket, and maybe in the rear in the same situation.

I'm not trying to help him out with repairs either, just letting him know that I work for a shop that is capable if he decides it's too much for him. If he decides to go it on his own, I'd give him more specific advice if he needed.

Have you swapped the engine on one of those? I thought so. It's a 10-13 hour job, depending on man or auto trans, A/C, etc... Compared to 7.2 for the head. A god 6 hour difference in labor, and knowing that the head gasket will get him through the next year or so that he needs it to last.

At our shop, 6 hours is $450. The only other common engine mechanical issue (timing components) are less than that, out the door. If the engine has a couple HUNDRED thousand miles on it, I'd say fixing it would be the better choice. This is considering that a used engine will be pretty close to the same price as the parts for the head gasket job, which would be about right.

[jporter12]

Or a couple cans of bar's leaks!

[omaralaoui]

Dude, no silicone is needed, or even recommended for that entire job! The only place I use RTV on that engine is where the oil pan gasket meets the front cover gasket, and maybe in the rear in the same situation.

I'm not trying to help him out with repairs either, just letting him know that I work for a shop that is capable if he decides it's too much for him. If he decides to go it on his own, I'd give him more specific advice if he needed.

Have you swapped the engine on one of those? I thought so. It's a 10-13 hour job, depending on man or auto trans, A/C, etc... Compared to 7.2 for the head. A god 6 hour difference in labor, and knowing that the head gasket will get him through the next year or so that he needs it to last.

At our shop, 6 hours is $450. The only other common engine mechanical issue (timing components) are less than that, out the door. If the engine has a couple HUNDRED thousand miles on it, I'd say fixing it would be the better choice. This is considering that a used engine will be pretty close to the same price as the parts for the head gasket job, which would be about right.

nope , not that i witnessed.. we only work on the cars we sell at the dealership , and we have always used a bit of black silicone with oil pan gaskets and valve cover gaskets . but we mostly work on imports.

[jporter12]

1-no , im not a mechanic, if that s what ur asking

2- i said silicone for the valve cover gaskets, not the head gasket

3- i said i could help him out with the parts, not repairs like you re claiming

4-when i mentioned engine swap, i was talking from the ease of the job and cost stand point.

I think the bold part says it all. This is what I do for a living. Bad advice is worse than no clue for the OP.

[natedogg624]

wow seems to have blown up a bit since i last logged in... anyways im multiquoting a lot so bear with me

oh shit I didn't see that we were talking about a s/10 for real.

I thought your R6 took a shit.

any machine shop can check it. and it's usually not that expensive. for what it's worth, I'd buy a rebuilt head.

I know of a place where you can buy a complete rebuilt head for about $225. (it's listed with beretta/corsica/cavalier/s-10) you'll have to find which casting # yours is. call them up and they will tell you where to look for the #.

http://www.headsonly.com/gm.htm

yup real s10, the r6 is the only reliable machine lol. im leaning towards a rebuilt head as well up front just to save the headache of having to stop halfway through. how would i find out where/what the casting number is? i'll check out the link later thanks.

CARQUEST is where we take the heads from our shop to be checked,so far we never had a problem, its anywhere from 100 to 300 to get them resurfaced. hopefully its not very bad as machine shops can only resurface them to a certain limit. also i think depending on how much they take off, may be the headbolts torque will change as well.

one question though, could you elaborate on the exact problem you are having ?

i hope its not very bad, it only overheated once and i shut it off right away. anyways the only "problem" i had that started all this was like this:

running errands, smelled funny, pulled into one of my errands stops and it was steaming/smoking. car engine off, temp gauge 3/4ths up (not full red). opened the hood, coolant reservoir was empty, refilled it with a 50/50 mix did not burp it. got it to a local shop, wouldn't hold water pressure, determined to be a failed water pump. replaced water pump, and thermostat, as well as other misc things needed (hoses, plugs, brake fluid, oil etc...) did another test (forgot name) but it was determined there was either coolant in the oil, or oil in the coolant and it was determined to be at least a blown head gasket. they asked if i wanted them to do it and i said prob not since im low on funds. and this brings me to here... i have not run/drove the truck on my own since i dropped it off.

sorry to type that like a 2nd grader.

there is a couple of places around columbus that have complete engines from 300 to 600 . it might a little easier for you to just swap them if you never replaced a head gasket.

anyways, if you want i can get you our discount on the parts if you like. here is what the head gasket set will look like

prices are :

head gasket set : 95$

head bolt set : 20 $

you will need some silicone for the valve cover gaskets, better change the plugs too.

im getting at least a head gasket kit, new head bolts. so far the avg prices seem to be around 120.

WTF? Dude, I hope you're not the one building, or doing serious repairs on engines at your shop. :nono"

Another WTF? No RTV (silicone adhesive) needed.

It's a better idea to replace the head on this application. Chances are that the engine you get will need a head gasket, if not now, soon. The bottom end of those engines are usually good to go for a LONG time. The only other problem I've seen on those 2.2's mechanical is the timing chain tensioner failing, and sometimes a timing chain. I replace them all together anyway.

The only thing I can agree with this tool 100% on is changing the plugs while working on it. Use AC-Delco plugs.

I am not going to try to claim to help him out other than on advice. I'm not on OR to get business for the shop, but I can let people know that I do this sort of work! If the OP wants to consider the shop where I work as an option, I can PM the number for him to call for an accurate estimate.

One other thing, there was one of these S-10's that I worked on that had a cracked block. It was cracked down the bore, along the travel of the piston. I've probably done 20-30 of these in the past couple years, so I know a thing or 2 about a thing or 2 on them.

i hope its not the block, that would just be catastrophic. unfortunately the truck is in beavercreek (dayton).

this...

i look at it this way the car was running and driving when it got into the wreck... i've had good luck with boneyard motors.

truck was not in a wreck, not sure where you got that idea from.

i'd have to factor in the worth of the car before i'd begin spending anything close to a grand on a gm 4 banger thats just me though.

its definitely a factor, thats why i've put a hold on fixing it by the shop. its worth maybe 2k if that so i dont wanna put that much into it which is why im looking to fix it myself for maybe 500 tops. i dont wanna do an engine swap because i dont have the right tools to complete it whereas the head/HG i can do.

Dude, no silicone is needed, or even recommended for that entire job! The only place I use RTV on that engine is where the oil pan gasket meets the front cover gasket, and maybe in the rear in the same situation.

I'm not trying to help him out with repairs either, just letting him know that I work for a shop that is capable if he decides it's too much for him. If he decides to go it on his own, I'd give him more specific advice if he needed.

Have you swapped the engine on one of those? I thought so. It's a 10-13 hour job, depending on man or auto trans, A/C, etc... Compared to 7.2 for the head. A god 6 hour difference in labor, and knowing that the head gasket will get him through the next year or so that he needs it to last.

At our shop, 6 hours is $450. The only other common engine mechanical issue (timing components) are less than that, out the door. If the engine has a couple HUNDRED thousand miles on it, I'd say fixing it would be the better choice. This is considering that a used engine will be pretty close to the same price as the parts for the head gasket job, which would be about right.

haynes manual doesn't require rtv anywhere for this particular job.

[jporter12]

Be careful on that coolant in the oil diagnosis on this one. The oil dipstick and fill tube are one in the same on this thing, and they tend to collect moisture on the underside of the cap. This is NOT an indicator of an issue, without the oil actually looking like it has coolant in it, such as looking like chocolate milk. One thing to consider in favor of those recommending an engine swap, if there is a significant amount of coolant in the oil, it can degrade the rod and main bearings. I'm not sure how the 2.2's are about it, but I remember back in the late 80's, early 90's a bunch of S-10's and Blazer's wth the 2.8 V6 that had coolant contaminate the oil and wipe out the bottom end pretty quick. I worked at a GM stealership for while back then, and there were quite a few of those engines getting replaced!

I have my doubts on coolant getting into the oil on it, due to the way it's made. They almost always leak to the outside, or into a combustion chamber. I'm not saying it's not possible, just that it's not all that likely. I usually test them with a cooling system pressure test (pressurize it, then start it after sitting for a bit, see if steam comes out the tailpipe) or with a cumbustion leak detection fluid.

[standout]

find out what they did to determine it was actualy a head gasket before u do anything. The funky looking gunk in the dipstick tube is very common on anything that has a large opening/tube to add oil. If thats why they say the hg is blown there retarded. Jporter has given pretty solid advice so far.

My question is have u driven it since they did the w/p and hoses? Is it still overheating?

[natedogg624]

i haven't driven it. the mechanic said he took it home the night the finished and it was running really rough.

the test they did was a hydro flora something test (i think) to see if there is gas in the coolant

[jporter12]

i haven't driven it. the mechanic said he took it home the night the finished and it was running really rough.

the test they did was a hydro flora something test (i think) to see if there is gas in the coolant

That sounds like a cumbustion leak detector fluid. Pretty goog chance that it IS blown, and a good chance that it is cracked.

One thing you can do to save a few $ is not buy the head set, but just get the head gasket itself, and the EGR plate gasket (that's on the back of the head, and only if the head needs replaced) since the way the other gaskets are made, they can be reused, as long as they aren't messed up. The intake and valve cover are nice thick o-ring type gaskets, and the exhaust is a MLS metal gasket. The only other one you'd need is the water outlet gasket, at the front of the head. The head gasket itself should be around $20, and the head bolts around $20. The EGR plate, and water outlet should be less than $10 for both.

This is all dependant on what the machine shop needs, if the head is bad, and what the replacement has. If they get a fully assembled head, you shouldn't need all the extra stuff (valve seals) that come with a head set, but if they get a bare head, then the head set will be better to get, as the seals are over $4 each, for 16 of them!

[serpentracer]

mine leaked to the outside. filled up spark plug hole #3.

it was cracked. and i never over heated the damn thing ever.

wait till you see what the casting looks like. it looks like they use styrofoam for a mold.

the casting # I"m almost sure is under the valve cover. they need it to give you the proper one for your truck.

they have a new oder page and now list those heads at $175.

http://www.shop.headsonly.com/CHEVROLET-S-10-22-REBUILT-CYLINDER-HEAD-S-10-22-OHV.htm

I have a 97 and it had 154k miles on it. I have a 2002 with the 4.3 v6 also. I wanted to keep the 97 because it is in perfect shape so I ended up buying a rebuilt engine instead of just the head. I figured with 154k, it might not make it much longer...it's only a gm. lol.

but man these little engines are outragious. $1600 for a rebuilt engine. but it came with a 100k mile 3 year warranty.

Edited June 27, 2010 by serpentracer

[natedogg624]

so just off serpents post, i could get a new head plus gaskets etc for around 300 bucks and be good to go? or am i missing something?

porter- ill get to your post later im currently in a rush, thanks.

[natedogg624]

That sounds like a cumbustion leak detector fluid. Pretty goog chance that it IS blown, and a good chance that it is cracked.

One thing you can do to save a few $ is not buy the head set, but just get the head gasket itself, and the EGR plate gasket (that's on the back of the head, and only if the head needs replaced) since the way the other gaskets are made, they can be reused, as long as they aren't messed up. The intake and valve cover are nice thick o-ring type gaskets, and the exhaust is a MLS metal gasket. The only other one you'd need is the water outlet gasket, at the front of the head. The head gasket itself should be around $20, and the head bolts around $20. The EGR plate, and water outlet should be less than $10 for both.

This is all dependant on what the machine shop needs, if the head is bad, and what the replacement has. If they get a fully assembled head, you shouldn't need all the extra stuff (valve seals) that come with a head set, but if they get a bare head, then the head set will be better to get, as the seals are over $4 each, for 16 of them!

so basically what you're saying is i don't need a complete gasket kit set? just the headgasket, egr plate, and water outlet?

mine leaked to the outside. filled up spark plug hole #3.

it was cracked. and i never over heated the damn thing ever.

wait till you see what the casting looks like. it looks like they use styrofoam for a mold.

the casting # I"m almost sure is under the valve cover. they need it to give you the proper one for your truck.

they have a new oder page and now list those heads at $175.

http://www.shop.headsonly.com/CHEVROLET-S-10-22-REBUILT-CYLINDER-HEAD-S-10-22-OHV.htm

I have a 97 and it had 154k miles on it. I have a 2002 with the 4.3 v6 also. I wanted to keep the 97 because it is in perfect shape so I ended up buying a rebuilt engine instead of just the head. I figured with 154k, it might not make it much longer...it's only a gm. lol.

but man these little engines are outragious. $1600 for a rebuilt engine. but it came with a 100k mile 3 year warranty.

is that a complete head or would i need to do a transfer of rockers/pushrods etc...? i'll call tomorrow and find out, but just curious if you knew now.

[jporter12]

so basically what you're saying is i don't need a complete gasket kit set? just the headgasket, egr plate, and water outlet?

If it was mine, that's what I would do, as long as it has the plastic intake manifold, which I'm pretty sure it does. I would also get the new head bolts. As long as the head you get cfomes assembled, and you don't need the valve seals. If you need them, I would probably get the head set, and give them the seals out of the set.

[El capitan]

truck was not in a wreck, not sure where you got that idea

i was referring to the boneyard motor idea. not your truck specifically.