Drink-driver jailed for LIFE in the U.S. after clocking up his ninth offence

[Steve Butters]

Yeah science and facts can do that

maybe ill just go drink some alcohol and forget about the headache you guys are giving me.

dont worry, its a disease bro, i cant help it.

[dorifto240]

Ha! ^ Well played

I like to think of myself as an alcoholist; not an alcoholic

[cg2112]

nobody said it was easy, but that it takes willpower

youre telling me methism and heroinism are also medical diseases and the person affected has no other option but to be a junkie the rest of their life?? please.

That's exactly it.

A person who is addicted is addicted for life. Even with treatment and programs, there are still urges and temptations. Anyone who has quit smoking can tell you that.

Part of the problem (I think), is that you're looking at it rationally. Thing is, addiction, like many other mental related diseases and disorders, isn't terribly rational. It's hard to understand, and it doesn't necessarily make sense.

[jmwildi]

There are physical and psychological factors in play here. Ever seen someone addicted to alcohol that had "the shakes" in the morning? Are they shaking on purpose? No, their body is reacting to its desire for more alcohol.

Maybe jail will help - he'll be drinking less.

I could be wrong about this, please correct me if I am. I believe that "the shakes" and all the other signs / symptoms that go along with it are from withdrawl. Withdrawl being the body's attempt to physiologicaly normalize itself in the absence of the drug, not the body's desire for more of the drug. While there is a physical addiction to a drug, is it not the mind that, consciously or unconsciously, says 'I need more of the drug to stop feeling like crap' i.e. get rid of the withdrawl and go back to what the mind perceives is "normal?"

About jail keeping him from drinking, you would be amazed at how easy it is to get homemade, or prison-made as it were, booze in jail. It's not hard to make at all and the prisons give the inmates everything they need to make it.

[jmwildi]

Go do heroin or crystal meth for a year, and then try to "put the shit down."

I have a friend who was addicted to meth for over a year. One day, in a moment of clarity, she took a look at her life and the people she was hanging around with and decided she'd had enough. Smoked her last hit of meth right before getting on a plane to Columbus where she quit cold turkey. Not saying it's easy to just put it down, but it is possible.

[Ryan_c_F]

Ugh. Lots of misinformation itt, and everyone has a bit of the truth.

tbutera - you're right in saying that alcohol is a choice. But it's a choice that's often made with your brain chemistry jacked up, either from depression or alcohol intoxication/withdrawel. Most people can't outright drop what they're doing. It'd be as easy for someone with schizophrenia to realize their worldview is wrong.

You also don't seem to know about the hell people go through while detoxing. "The Shakes" is a nice way of describing delerium tremens, or the DTs, but you're basically going through grand mal seizures, hallucinations, and fibromyalgia all at the same time. It's not pretty and it's violent and unpredictable and awful. You can literally die from withdrawal.

It's not "just a choice."

http://missoulian.com/news/local/article_b83eaf2c-892d-11de-b7ea-001cc4c03286.html

[Steve Butters]

^ thanks for informing me, we should discuss this more over a beer or 30

[jblosser]

I could be wrong about this, please correct me if I am. I believe that "the shakes" and all the other signs / symptoms that go along with it are from withdrawl. Withdrawl being the body's attempt to physiologicaly normalize itself in the absence of the drug, not the body's desire for more of the drug. While there is a physical addiction to a drug, is it not the mind that, consciously or unconsciously, says 'I need more of the drug to stop feeling like crap' i.e. get rid of the withdrawl and go back to what the mind perceives is "normal?"

No, you are correct; however in a heavy drinker, even 6 hours without booze is "withdrawl" - whether or not they are actually trying to quit. Perhaps it was a poor example on my part, as it's been 40 years since I saw Pop like that, and maybe my memory isn't exactly right. Yes, I was 3 or 4 when I saw some things - unfortunately those memories won't go away, and I also didn't learn from them.

About jail keeping him from drinking, you would be amazed at how easy it is to get homemade, or prison-made as it were, booze in jail. It's not hard to make at all and the prisons give the inmates everything they need to make it.

I thought about that and decided not to write about it - figured I had already spouted off enough, plus had already spiraled away from the OP and the direction the thread <should> (imho) have been going and had digressed into something else entirely.

[chevysoldier]

[Ryan_c_F]

^ thanks for informing me, we should discuss this more over a beer or 30

i'll race you long islands.

chug chug chug chug lel

[John]

Also alcoholism isn't fucking disease it's an addiction.

addiction is a medical issue. not a social one.

tbutera obviously has no experience with addiction if he thinks you can "just put it down" and walk away.

but he is like ICP. he doesnt care what scientists think. what the fuck do they know anyway?

[Steve Butters]

make excuses for the lack of willpower all you want. whatever helps you sleep at night...besides your beer obviously

[jmwildi]

No, you are correct; however in a heavy drinker, even 6 hours without booze is "withdrawl" - whether or not they are actually trying to quit. Perhaps it was a poor example on my part, as it's been 40 years since I saw Pop like that, and maybe my memory isn't exactly right. Yes, I was 3 or 4 when I saw some things - unfortunately those memories won't go away, and I also didn't learn from them.

I thought about that and decided not to write about it - figured I had already spouted off enough, plus had already spiraled away from the OP and the direction the thread <should> (imho) have been going and had digressed into something else entirely.

Right on, I thought withdrawl was the physiological reaction to the body normalizing itself when the drugs wear off but I also half slept through that day in abnormal psych so I wanted to make sure I had it right. As I understand it though addictions are more of a psychological problem concerning anxiety/stress coping and gratification. The addiction is just the physical manifestation of those mental issues. In my mind that makes it more of a psychiatric problem as opposed to a physical medicine problem. Even though there are physical symptoms of addiction, the underlying problems always seem to be psychological.

Fair enough, I just thought I'd mention it since it can be a misconception that inmates can't make alcohol or get drugs in prison. My only point was that prison is not exactly "dry" for all the alcoholic inmates. Just my 0.02 cents on the issue.

[Fonzie]

I dont buy alcoholism as being a disease. Once upon a time, long before anyone here knew me I drank ALOT. I would joke that I was a drunk, not an alcoholic because alcoholics admit they have a problem and go to class. I would drink every chance I got. One day I decided I didn't want to live that life anymore. I still drink but very rarely. Alcohol is a choice, not a disease.

Blue's called high school/college

Red's called parenthood

[John]

make excuses for the lack of willpower all you want. whatever helps you sleep at night...besides your beer obviously

lol willpower has nothing to do with it.

but your ideas are intriguing. you should submit them to the NEJM and JAMA.

[John]

My only point was that prison is not exactly "dry" for all the alcoholic inmates. Just my 0.02 cents on the issue.

in prison you make sangria in the toilet.

[Steve Butters]

quitting drinking has nothing to do with willpower - LOL

[Kosmo]

It's much cheaper to put a electronic ankle bracelet to his feet rather than feeding him in jail.....just a thought.....