Candidate faces criminal trial for open carry of motorcycle

[alienpi]

...now you've got my attention

Yes, I believe in order to take advantage of the tax exemption they are supposed to not comment on current events, especially politics and such. I'm not 100% sure about this, and I'm too tired to do research.

[jporter12]

So if Im on my bike its ok to ride with a unload weapon out in the open with the clip under my hump of my bike. Its ok so when I get off my bike load my clip in the gun and walk in public.

I'm pretty sure the MAGAZINE has to be unloaded, not just stowed away.

[fusion]

I'm pretty sure the MAGAZINE has to be unloaded, not just stowed away.

Maybe he has a revolver.

[Scruit]

My understanding is that the pistol is considered to be loaded if the magazine is loaded even if the magazine is not in the pistol (and the magazine is also in the car). It's all about how quickly the weapon could be brought to bear... The intent is to ensure that anyone who can become armed and dangerous quickly has a CHL.

For a revolver I'm not sure if a speedloader counts like a magazine...

[jporter12]

Maybe he has a revolver.

The post I was replying to said "clip", which I'm going to say he really meant "magazine", therefore not being a revolver.

My understanding is that the pistol is considered to be loaded if the magazine is loaded even if the magazine is not in the pistol (and the magazine is also in the car). It's all about how quickly the weapon could be brought to bear... The intent is to ensure that anyone who can become armed and dangerous quickly has a CHL.

For a revolver I'm not sure if a speedloader counts like a magazine...

If that is the intent of the law, then it should be illegal for anyone other than CHL holders to open carry. There are just too many laws that conflict with the intent of others, not only dealing with this, but almost everything else as well.

[SpeedTriple44444]

I'm not sure what Bibles you've been reading' date=' but the one I grew up reading clearly illustrates the purposefulness of carrying a weapon for self-defense.

[url']http://www.biblicalselfdefense.com/

I think much of that is a stretch, but I was surprised about the verse referring to a thief breaking in at night. Interesting read.

[chevysoldier]

So if Im on my bike its ok to ride with a unload weapon out in the open with the clip under my hump of my bike. Its ok so when I get off my bike load my clip in the gun and walk in public.

Maybe he has a revolver.

Negative. A loaded magazine or speedloader even when seperated from the firearm is considered a loaded weapon. One can be in the glove box, the other in the trunk. Without a CHL, it is illegal.

[fusion]

The post I was replying to said "clip", which I'm going to say he really meant "magazine", therefore not being a revolver.

Yeah just trying to give the guy benefit of the doubt by suggesting he meant a revolver clip even though I really thought he used the wrong term also.

[jporter12]

Yeah just trying to give the guy benefit of the doubt by suggesting he meant a revolver clip even though I really thought he used the wrong term also.

Gotcha. I was worried about you losing your intelligence there for a minute!

[cOoTeR]

Nope. Once you investigate what defines "motor vehicle" in Ohio' date=' you'll see that he is fuxored.[/quote']

I'm not talking about the definition of motor vehicle I'm talking about being "on"a motor vehicle while the law applies to "in" a motor vehicle. If your out somewhere where open carry with out a permit is allowed. You decide to sit on the trunk of your car with the gun being openly carried. It would seem you would be on the car not in the car and not violating the law. Or you drive to a friends property to do some shooting. You get there load up a couple of firearms and set them on the trunk of your car. Does that mean your in violation of the law because you have a loaded weapon on your motor vehicle? I don't think so.

Now I don't agree this guy should have tried this without his chl. But I do believe that any law abiding citizen has the right to carry a gun at all times. Problem is they make laws against that not realizing criminals don't care. They still rob liquor stores with guns even though its against the law to have a gun in one.

Edited September 2, 2010 by cOoTeR
Typo

[chevysoldier]

I'm not talking about the definition of motor vehicle I'm talking about being "on"a motor vehicle while the law applies to "in" a motor vehicle. If your out somewhere where open carry with out a permit is allowed. You decide to sit on the trunk of your car with the gun being openly carried. It would seem you would be on the car not in the car and not violating the law. Or you drive to a friends property to do some shooting. You get there load up a couple of firearms and set them on the trunk of your car. Does that mean your in violation of the law because you have a loaded weapon on your motor vehicle? I don't think so.

Now I don't agree this guy should have tried this without his chl. But I do believe that any law abiding citizen has the right to carry a gun at all times. Problem is they make laws against that not realizing criminals don't care. They still rob liquor stores with guns even though its against the law to have a gun in one.

Show me where you cannot carry in a liquor store.

[fusion]

Gotcha. I was worried about you losing your intelligence there for a minute!

Oh no worries I lost that a long time ago.

[Scruit]

Show me where you cannot carry in a liquor store.

Maybe they have a Class D for wine tasting?

[chevysoldier]

Beer and wine are not liquor' date=' per the ORC.[/quote']

Awesome sig!

[cOoTeR]

Show me where you cannot carry in a liquor store.

After my research I have failed to find it, so I must admit I had misunderstood the class liquor permit stuff and I was wrong. So please allow me a chance to redeem myself. You can't carry a gun in a Verizon store, but criminals still rob them with guns.

[chevysoldier]

After my research I have failed to find it, so I must admit I had misunderstood the class liquor permit stuff and I was wrong. So please allow me a chance to redeem myself. You can't carry a gun in a Verizon store, but criminals still rob them with guns.

Still not correct. I have verizon and the store at 256 and 70 doesn't post.

[cOoTeR]

The one in Delaware doesn't allow it. I also have Verizon. I remember seeing a post on here with a video of a guy robbing one with a gun and I believe someone said that that one has the do not carry in here sign also. The point I'm trying to make is that restricting where guns can and can't go only affects law abiding citizens who follow those laws. Not the criminals who know they can rob that place and chances are they will have the only gun in there.

[chevysoldier]

The one in Delaware doesn't allow it. I also have Verizon. I remember seeing a post on here with a video of a guy robbing one with a gun and I believe someone said that that one has the do not carry in here sign also. The point I'm trying to make is that restricting where guns can and can't go only affects law abiding citizens who follow those laws. Not the criminals who know they can rob that place and chances are they will have the only gun in there.

I know what your saying, I'm just messing with you. I totally agree. Placing restrictions only restricts the law abiding citizen, not the bad guy intent on killing someone. Look where all the shoot outs/massacres take place; Columbine, Ft. Hood, that immigration center...none "allowed" guns. The restaurant carry bill need to become law soon.

I do remember the vid you are referring to, I didn't know that one was posted. Glad the one I go to isn't, well last time I was there it wasn't.

[jmbnnr4]

DEFINITIONS

In order to understand the correct application of the statute in question, we must first define the terms used in connection with this point of law. As will be shown, many terms used today do not, in their legal context, mean what we assume they mean, thus resulting in the misapplication of statutes in the instant case.

AUTOMOBILE AND MOTOR VEHICLE

There is a clear distinction between an automobile and a motor vehicle. An automobile has been defined as:

"The word `automobile' connotes a pleasure vehicle designed for the transportation of persons on highways."

American Mutual Liability Ins. Co., vs. Chaput, 60 A.2d 118, 120; 95 NH 200

While the distinction is made clear between the two as the courts have stated:

"A motor vehicle or automobile for hire is a motor vehicle, other than an automobile stage, used for the transportation of persons for which remuneration is received."

International Motor Transit Co. vs. Seattle, 251 P. 120

The term `motor vehicle' is different and broader than the word `automobile.'"

City of Dayton vs. DeBrosse, 23 NE.2d 647, 650; 62 Ohio App. 232

The distinction is made very clear in Title 18 USC 31:

"Motor vehicle" means every description or other contrivance propelled or drawn by mechanical power and used for commercial purposes on the highways in the transportation of passengers, or passengers and property.

"

Used for commercial purposes

" means the carriage of persons or property for any fare, fee, rate, charge or other considerations, or directly or indirectly in connection with any business, or other undertaking intended for profit.

Clearly, an automobile is private property in use for private purposes, while a motor vehicle is a machine which may be used upon the highways for trade, commerce, or hire.

TRAVEL

The term "travel" is a significant term and is defined as:

"The term `travel' and `traveler' are usually construed in their broad and general sense ... so as to include all those who rightfully use the highways viatically (when being reimbursed for expenses) and who have occasion to pass over them for the purpose of business, convenience, or pleasure."

25 Am.Jur. (1st) Highways, Sect.427, Pg. 717

"

Traveler

-- One who passes from place to place, whether for pleasure, instruction, business, or health."

Locket vs. State, 47 Ala. 45;

Bovier's Law Dictionary, 1914 ed., Pg. 3309

"

Travel

-- To journey or to pass through or over; as a country district, road, etc. To go from one place to another, whether on foot, or horseback, or in any conveyance as a train, an automobile, carriage, ship, or aircraft; Make a journey."

Century Dictionary, Pg. 2034

Therefore, the term "travel" or "traveler" refers to one who uses a conveyance to go from one place to another, and included all those who use the highways as a matter of Right.

Notice that in all these definitions, the phrase "for hire" never occurs. This term "travel" or "traveler" implies, by definition, one who uses the road as a means to move from one place to another.

Therefore, one who uses the road in the ordinary course of life and business for the purpose of travel and transportation is a traveler.

DRIVER

The term "driver" in contradistinction to "traveler," is defined as:

"

Driver

-- One employed in conducting a coach, carriage, wagon, or other vehicle ..."

Bovier's Law Dictionary, 1914 ed., Pg. 940

Notice that this definition includes one who is "employed" in conducting a vehicle. It should be self-evident that this individual could not be "travelling" on a journey, but is using the road as a place of business.

OPERATOR

Today we assume that a "traveler" is a "driver," and a "driver" is an "operator." However, this is not the case.

"It will be observed from the language of the ordinance that a distinction is to be drawn between the terms `operator' and `driver'; the `operator' of the service car being the person who is licensed to have the car on the streets in the business of carrying passengers for hire; while the `driver' is the one who actually drives the car. However, in the actual prosecution of business, it was possible for the same person to be both "

operator

" and "

driver

."

Newbill vs. Union Indemnity Co., 60 SE.2d 658

To further clarify the definition of an "operator" the court observed that this was a vehicle "for hire" and that it was in the business of carrying passengers.

This definition would seem to describe a person who is using the road as a place of business, or in other words, a person engaged in the "privilege" of using the road for gain.

This definition, then, is a further clarification of the distinction mentioned earlier, and therefore:

1. Travelling upon and transporting one's property upon the public roads as a matter of Right meets the definition of a traveler.
   
2. Using the road as a place of business as a matter of privilege meets the definition of a driver or an operator or both.
   

The rest can be found......................... just search right to travel.

[fusion]

definitions

tl;dr

[chevysoldier]

This is what I was looking for.

2923.16 Improperly handling firearms in a motor vehicle.

[basically says you can't carry a loaded firearm, then states:]

5) Divisions (B) and © of this section do not apply to a person who transports or possesses a handgun in a motor vehicle if, at the time of that transportation or possession, all of the following apply:

(a) The person transporting or possessing the handgun is carrying a valid license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun issued to the person under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code or a license to carry a concealed handgun that was issued by another state with which the attorney general has entered into a reciprocity agreement under section 109.69 of the Revised Code.

K) As used in this section:

(1)”Motor vehicle,” “street,” and “highway” have the same meanings as in section 4511.01 of the Revised Code.

4511.01 Traffic laws - operation of motor vehicles definitions.

As used in this chapter and in Chapter 4513. of the Revised Code:

(B) “Motor vehicle” means every vehicle propelled or drawn by power other than muscular power or power collected from overhead electric trolley wires, except motorized bicycles, road rollers, traction engines, power shovels, power cranes, and other equipment used in construction work and not designed for or employed in general highway transportation, hole-digging machinery, well-drilling machinery, ditch-digging machinery, farm machinery, and trailers designed and used exclusively to transport a boat between a place of storage and a marina, or in and around a marina, when drawn or towed on a street or highway for a distance of no more than ten miles and at a speed of twenty-five miles per hour or less.

Edited September 3, 2010 by chevysoldier

[cOoTeR]

2923.16 I mproperly handling firearms "in" a motor vehicle.[basically says you can't carry a loaded firearm.

In as in inside can be defined as enclosed within. He was on the motorcycle not in the motorcycle. Had he had the gun in an under seat compartment or saddle bag then he would be in violation. If the law stated you can't carry a loaded firearm while operating a motor vehicle or as a passenger in or on a motor vehicle. Then he would be in violation. But because the law is written as it is he is not in violation.

[ReconRat]

For a revolver I'm not sure if a speedloader counts like a magazine...

Yes, but it's not clearly written into ever jurisdiction's laws. Just some.