Japanese manufacturing in the USA

[ReconRat]

Ok, a little research...

As of 2008, there are 60+ Japanese automotive manufacturing facilities in the USA producing 2.97 million vehicles and 3.28 million engines.

And no motorcycles... all the motorcycle production by Japan in the USA has ceased. This is unacceptable...

Some watercraft, ATVs, and stuff are still made here.

[Disclaimer]

Can you post the sources just for all our edification?

[ReconRat]

Can you post the sources just for all our edification?

crap, now you ask... I wish there was a single source of info, but there doesn't appear to be any that I can find. Just stuff scattered all over the internet. I found one pdf that lists the 60 Japanese locations in the US. That's the only thing found so far that's worth anything.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/30127001/Japanese-Automobile-Manufacturers

What's the point though, it's pretty clear that Japanese motorcycle production is gone. Go find me one.

[Moto-Brian]

Japan's tolerances and QC standards are or were not being reached by US employees...

Terrible to say, but factory workers were not upholding the standards the Japanese companies wished for motorcycles.

Plus, they NEVER built a single sportbike here as these are and always will be produced under strict guidelines in Japan...

[ReconRat]

I've designed a lot of parts for aircraft, and I was constantly going out to the factory to check and find and point out the out-of-tolerance parts that were stopping the production line. Parts that passed inspection.

On the other hand, Boeing tried to manufacture wing assemblies in Japan, and it was rather difficult. Aircraft riveting is closer to an art, and required resourcefulness on the part of the mechanic. Sort of "just knowing it's right". That doesn't work in Japan, where workers work per strict instructions and guidelines.

example: a rivet drawing will call for a number of rivets between spars. So six -5 alum rivets between spars, and you wing it. It's done with an elastic tape measure. You pinch off at 8 marks, and stretch it from point to point and use a sharpie to "x" the locations of your six drill points. You're expected to drill correctly, and install rivets correctly, with proper centering and edge distance on the mating parts. that's winging it, and the Japanese mechanics flipped out when they saw American mechanics do that.

Edited October 9, 2010 by ReconRat
example

[ReconRat]

...Plus, they NEVER built a single sportbike here as these are and always will be produced under strict guidelines in Japan...

Correct, the Lincoln Kawasaki plant made dirt bikes.

[Moto-Brian]

I've designed a lot of parts for aircraft, and I was constantly going out to the factory to check and find and point out the out-of-tolerance parts that were stopping the production line. Parts that passed inspection.

On the other hand, Boeing tried to manufacture wing assemblies in Japan, and it was rather difficult. Aircraft riveting is closer to an art, and required resourcefulness on the part of the mechanic. Sort of "just knowing it's right". That doesn't work in Japan, where workers work per strict instructions and guidelines.

I know even the standards for Gold Wing painted panels were a headache for Honda as they used a few suppliers and they would come back with mismatched panels...

Essentially, they tried to build the lower end motorcycles with hopes to build more, but in the end, the amounts they paid for screw ups led them to want to send them back to Japan...

This was before the recession really had any effect on OEMs...

[serpentracer]

Japan's tolerances and QC standards are or were not being reached by US employees...

Terrible to say, but factory workers were not upholding the standards the Japanese companies wished for motorcycles.

Plus, they NEVER built a single sportbike here as these are and always will be produced under strict guidelines in Japan...

I watched a show called ultimate factories on the National Geographic channel.

they were at the corvette factory in Kentucky. they have an electronic/computerized measuring station that measures every single part of the chassis on the vette. if it's off by a few thousandths I think it was, the whole production line shuts down until the errors are corrected.

American companies have figured out how to guarantee perfect parts removing human error. so the technology exists. I think Asian companies either didn't want to use it or rather move production back home.

I know a few people that work for asian run companies and said they are some of the worst hard headed people to work for. for instance the plant in tenn that makes fuel pumps, they person I know that works there said they don't allow any doors to be open. they think the dirt from in the air outside will comtaminate the plastic parts being made. but the air quality inside the building fails safety standars in place by osha.

and they get finded all the time for it. they said the air in the building is full of burning plastic fumes and is very bad to breath. it's like breathing in spray paint fumes. they don't want to put fresh air systems in the building. again, they are hard headed people. instead they pay the fines, and get mad at people who get sick.

they don't have those kinds of worker protection in their factories back home. that's why they like it there.

Edited October 9, 2010 by serpentracer

[Moto-Brian]

I watched a show called ultimate factories on the National Geographic channel.

they were at the corvette factory in Kentucky. they have an electronic/computerized measuring station that measures every single part of the chassis on the vette. if it's off by a few thousandths I think it was, the whole production line shuts down until the errors are corrected.

American companies have figured out how to guarantee perfect parts removing human error. so the technology exists. I think Asian companies either didn't want to use it or rather move production back home.

I know a few people that work for asian run companies and said they are some of the worst hard headed people to work for. for instance the plant in tenn that makes fuel pumps, they person I know that works there said they don't allow any doors to be open. they think the dirt from in the air outside will comtaminate the plastic parts being made. but the air quality inside the building fails safety standars in place by osha.

and they get finded all the time for it. they said the air in the building is full of burning plastic fumes and is very bad to breath. it's like breathing in spray paint fumes. they don't want to put fresh air systems in the building. again, they are hard headed people. instead they pay the fines, and get mad at people who get sick.

they don't have those kinds of worker protection in their factories back home. that's why they like it there.

Corvette may be a hard lined QC factory, but like I said, with a few family members who have worked at Honda and Japanese related companies here in Ohio, they say they are certainly hard pushing people and hard headed. However, as a society, they are harder working people than we are. Look at their education system, look at their technology jobs and education relating to that.

I hate to sound like we are a bunch of lazy people here in the US, but essentially, we have relied so much on unions and such that we are now working like we are owed something. Unions are the reason why the companies like Chevy have had issues. Double dipping, the amount of money being paid for labor, etc...

The fact is that the Japanese want things to be exact. Yes, we may know what the technology is to keep it exact and maybe in certain factories it is, but overall, the common weak link is a human being and the Japanese feel they can get better quality out of Japanese workers...

[Disclaimer]

I've designed a lot of parts for aircraft, and I was constantly going out to the factory to check and find and point out the out-of-tolerance parts that were stopping the production line. Parts that passed inspection.

On the other hand, Boeing tried to manufacture wing assemblies in Japan, and it was rather difficult. Aircraft riveting is closer to an art, and required resourcefulness on the part of the mechanic. Sort of "just knowing it's right". That doesn't work in Japan, where workers work per strict instructions and guidelines.

example: a rivet drawing will call for a number of rivets between spars. So six -5 alum rivets between spars, and you wing it. It's done with an elastic tape measure. You pinch off at 8 marks, and stretch it from point to point and use a sharpie to "x" the locations of your six drill points. You're expected to drill correctly, and install rivets correctly, with proper centering and edge distance on the mating parts. that's winging it, and the Japanese mechanics flipped out when they saw American mechanics do that.

This pretty much captures the cultural differences. Yes, the Japanese can get repeatable and reliable processes because they document and specify everything -- they invest the money upfront in planning to avoid the costs of poor quality later where possible.

Americans are skilled tradesmen... for stuff that is hard to measure or document, we have guys that "just know" how to finesse parts and make things work, problem is -- it's not repeatable. This is somewhat how the Italians (Ducati, Ferrari, etc) do things as well. It's not engineering per se, it's art and craftsmanship. Quality and process control are second thoughts.*

*None of that verbiage above is meant to represent "hard and fast" stereotypes of cultures. A lot of this work is becoming like a hybrid form of manufacturing culture where everyone is beginning to realize the benefits and drawbacks of the Japanese, American, and European methodologies.

[drew95gt]

When you get rid of so many full time career workers in your plants and fill their positions with temp workers paying them less with no benefits of course the QC is going to go in the shitter. Same reason so many other manufacturing jobs left this country, cost of living is on the rise and the American worker that puts in a hard 8-12 hour day at a manufacturing job expects (rightfully so) to be able to provide a decent living for his family. Companies don't want to pay expensive benefits and a decent living wage so they pack up and head elsewhere where they don't have to. They have no import tariffs and insufficient tax incentives to stay here anyway thanks to NAFTA and our govt selling us out a long time ago.

Edited October 10, 2010 by drew95gt

[Disclaimer]

NAFTA only causes jobs to be shipped to Mexico or Canada... irrelevant to jobs going to Japan where they have universal healthcare so Suzuki, Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha and the like don't have to foot the healthcare bills for their employees.

[drew95gt]

NAFTA only causes jobs to be shipped to Mexico or Canada... irrelevant to jobs going to Japan where they have universal healthcare so Suzuki, Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha and the like don't have to foot the healthcare bills for their employees.

Yeah I know...the NAFTA thing was thrown in regarding other manufacturing jobs (notably auto manufacturing) that have gone north and south. Universal healthcare is a whole other can of worms, hope that never happens here.

Edited October 10, 2010 by drew95gt

[gearman]

Quality issues had nothing to do with it. The economy tanked and they sucked the remaining jobs back to the motherland or outsourced them to other cheaper pacific rim suppliers.

Universal healthcare is a whole other can of worms, hope that never happens here.

Some would say that it's absence here caused the migration of jobs.

[fusion]

It's long been known the quality of work by Americans in manufacturing plants isn't of the highest quality. If it weren't for the unions we would have better, at a lower cost. The stories I constantly heard from way too many people about workers at the local GM plants was enough for me eliminate GM products for any purchases...forever.

[jporter12]

...and an intelligent person would argue that overbearing tax liabilities had way more to do with it than health care.

Zing!

[fusion]

...and an intelligent person would argue that overbearing tax liabilities had way more to do with it than health care.

I thought it was the overpaid morons on lines that helped push those types of jobs overseas.

[drew95gt]

...and an intelligent person would argue that overbearing tax liabilities had way more to do with it than health care.

I work in healthcare which is why I am not looking forward to these changes if and when they take effect. We all see how good of a job the government does running everything else (sarcasm). I can imagine all the regulations and red tape that would interfere with patient care if government gets their hands in the medical field. Pay, staffing, patient care, paperwork, etc would all be screwed with...no thanks.

[serpentracer]

Corvette may be a hard lined QC factory, but like I said, with a few family members who have worked at Honda and Japanese related companies here in Ohio, they say they are certainly hard pushing people and hard headed. However, as a society, they are harder working people than we are. Look at their education system, look at their technology jobs and education relating to that.

I hate to sound like we are a bunch of lazy people here in the US, but essentially, we have relied so much on unions and such that we are now working like we are owed something. Unions are the reason why the companies like Chevy have had issues. Double dipping, the amount of money being paid for labor, etc...

The fact is that the Japanese want things to be exact. Yes, we may know what the technology is to keep it exact and maybe in certain factories it is, but overall, the common weak link is a human being and the Japanese feel they can get better quality out of Japanese workers...

actually statistics show workers in the usa have longer hours, paid the least, the least amount of vacations and sick time than any other industrialized nation.

[serpentracer]

When you get rid of so many full time career workers in your plants and fill their positions with temp workers paying them less with no benefits of course the QC is going to go in the shitter. Same reason so many other manufacturing jobs left this country, cost of living is on the rise and the American worker that puts in a hard 8-12 hour day at a manufacturing job expects (rightfully so) to be able to provide a decent living for his family. Companies don't want to pay expensive benefits and a decent living wage so they pack up and head elsewhere where they don't have to. They have no import tariffs and insufficient tax incentives to stay here anyway thanks to NAFTA and our govt selling us out a long time ago.

it's a fact pay has never kept up with inflation. when americans are constantly being put furthur in a hole what do you exect people to do? of course they want higher pay.

Edited October 19, 2010 by serpentracer

[crf69]

this may be a good thing.....(harleys and corolla gas pedal's"