Senate Bill 5

[cfd37buckeye]

And if you are asking for a peoples vote on this issue, you will more than likely get one in November when there is a referendum placed on the bill. The 6% of the voters that turned out for the last election amounts to roughly 250,000. There are 350,000 public union employees in the state. The rest of the process is mere formalities.

[shittygsxr]

I choose to answer your personal message publicly because I feel it is important for me to do so . You asked why do I ask if you profit from this website. The answer is because if you do the amount of members on the site may have something to do with how much so. You seem quite a bit opinionated when it comes to issues involving other peoples lively hood. In response to that open opinion . certain members may decide they don't care to help you with your livelyhood. So I ask again . Do u profit from this website ?

I don't contribute financially to this site, however if you are trying to say you want to leave because of his opinion then I will donate $10 to the site if you GTFO

[Casper]

I choose to answer your personal message publicly because I feel it is important for me to do so . You asked why do I ask if you profit from this website. The answer is because if you do the amount of members on the site may have something to do with how much so. You seem quite a bit opinionated when it comes to issues involving other peoples lively hood. In response to that open opinion . certain members may decide they don't care to help you with your livelyhood. So I ask again . Do u profit from this website ?

It's been discussed on here before several times, hence the private message. No, Ohio Riders does not turn a profit. We generally end up just in the red. It's my fault we don't make money on the site. I don't try to. Throughout the year I donate money to charities out of the OR fund. Like last fall when we did the supplies drive for the Marines. I used cash from the OR account to help pay for a bunch of stuff several OR members chipped together and bought. Earlier in the year I sent a donation to the fund for that kid that died in Indy at the MotoGP. And we donated some to Pelotonia. Etc. We don't charge for membership. Plus we give away the Ohio Riders stickers for free. The only income is from sponsorship, which is dirt cheap, and supporting members. For the most part, we almost break even, maybe a couple hundred dollars in the red. The point of this site was never to make money. The point was to bring people from all spectrums together through motorcycles. For most, it's the only thing (or one of a few things) they have in common with anyone else on this site. But the love and passion of motorcycling brings the group together.

Now with that said, I fail to find why this is of any importance to you. I have no say in your livelihood. I am not voting on this issue. I have no say with the bill. I didn't go support it on the state house lawn. Hell, I haven't even talked about it on Facebook (I don't think?). My opinion means nothing, and as I've stated repeatedly, it is just that; my opinion. I'm entitled to one just as you are entitled to your's. The point of this thread was for open, civil discussion about the bill between supporters and opponents, and those in between. I hold no grudges nor have any complaints against any supporters or opponents of this bill. All I've said remotely close is those who lied, called in sick, then went to protest should be disciplined. If they used vacation or personal days, great. I have not attacked you for your opinion of the bill. If you feel the appropriate action would be to attack me and boycott Ohio Riders because you disagree with my personal opinions, so be it. Most of the pro-union folks on this site I consider my friends. Hell, most everyone in general on this site I consider friends. We all disagree about a lot of things. Doesn't mean we have to hate and threaten each other.

As I've said previously, this does not directly effect me. I am not a union worker. I will not be a union worker. I am not a firefighter, police officer, teacher, etc. I do believe in merit based pay increases over blanket raises for everyone. It's what stirs innovation and exceptional work. If the lady at the BMV was rewarded for giving good customer service, trips to renew plates probably wouldn't suck so bad.

[Cheech]

I don't contribute financially to this site, however if you are trying to say you want to leave because of his opinion then I will donate $10 to the site if you GTFO

There's a worthy cause. I'll match that, as well as administer the kick in the ass.

[quessimasquid]

Good of u to answer the question. And ill accept it as an honest one. As to Ur comment about your opinion. Id compare it a little bit to mine at work..... I can't express it. Difference is my livelihood is at risk if I express it there . If u express yours here , there is little at risk, apparently . I do however believe u should be held to a.different standard when it comes to subjects that are this sensitive in nature. As usual you can disagree. I also believe I like people more If they like bikes.but I personally am not giving people 'passes' anymore. If someone speaks out against my work rights .I will consider going out of my way to adversely effect there's. That appears to be the modern America way. In ending I wish u, the administrator would have expressed his opinion on this matter more like u did in Ur response to me here ..... p.s. if u can collect monies to use to donate to another good cause by seeing to it I 'g.t.f.o.' .... ban me please. Lord knows its a sad state of affairs when the only way to get people contribute to something is by them getting to throw a pie at someone's face. But hey ... modern America . peace

It's been discussed on here before several times, hence the private message. No, Ohio Riders does not turn a profit. We generally end up just in the red. It's my fault we don't make money on the site. I don't try to. Throughout the year I donate money to charities out of the OR fund. Like last fall when we did the supplies drive for the Marines. I used cash from the OR account to help pay for a bunch of stuff several OR members chipped together and bought. Earlier in the year I sent a donation to the fund for that kid that died in Indy at the MotoGP. And we donated some to Pelotonia. Etc. We don't charge for membership. Plus we give away the Ohio Riders stickers for free. The only income is from sponsorship, which is dirt cheap, and supporting members. For the most part, we almost break even, maybe a couple hundred dollars in the red. The point of this site was never to make money. The point was to bring people from all spectrums together through motorcycles. For most, it's the only thing (or one of a few things) they have in common with anyone else on this site. But the love and passion of motorcycling brings the group together.

Now with that said, I fail to find why this is of any importance to you. I have no say in your livelihood. I am not voting on this issue. I have no say with the bill. I didn't go support it on the state house lawn. Hell, I haven't even talked about it on Facebook (I don't think?). My opinion means nothing, and as I've stated repeatedly, it is just that; my opinion. I'm entitled to one just as you are entitled to your's. The point of this thread was for open, civil discussion about the bill between supporters and opponents, and those in between. I hold no grudges nor have any complaints against any supporters or opponents of this bill. All I've said remotely close is those who lied, called in sick, then went to protest should be disciplined. If they used vacation or personal days, great. I have not attacked you for your opinion of the bill. If you feel the appropriate action would be to attack me and boycott Ohio Riders because you disagree with my personal opinions, so be it. Most of the pro-union folks on this site I consider my friends. Hell, most everyone in general on this site I consider friends. We all disagree about a lot of things. Doesn't mean we have to hate and threaten each other.

As I've said previously, this does not directly effect me. I am not a union worker. I will not be a union worker. I am not a firefighter, police officer, teacher, etc. I do believe in merit based pay increases over blanket raises for everyone. It's what stirs innovation and exceptional work. If the lady at the BMV was rewarded for giving good customer service, trips to renew plates probably wouldn't suck so bad.

[jbot]

you work for a publicly funded state agency/department that would fire you if you expressed your opinion about SB5?

[shittygsxr]

Good of u to answer the question. And ill accept it as an honest one. As to Ur comment about your opinion. Id compare it a little bit to mine at work..... I can't express it. Difference is my livelihood is at risk if I express it there . If u express yours here , there is little at risk, apparently . I do however believe u should be held to a.different standard when it comes to subjects that are this sensitive in nature. As usual you can disagree. I also believe I like people more If they like bikes.but I personally am not giving people 'passes' anymore. If someone speaks out against my work rights .I will consider going out of my way to adversely effect there's. That appears to be the modern America way. In ending I wish u, the administrator would have expressed his opinion on this matter more like u did in Ur response to me here ..... p.s. if u can collect monies to use to donate to another good cause by seeing to it I 'g.t.f.o.' .... ban me please. Lord knows its a sad state of affairs when the only way to get people contribute to something is by them getting to throw a pie at someone's face. But hey ... modern America . peace

Are you typing all this on a phone?

[shittygsxr]

So new poll.

Is quessimasquid an overpaid.

a. Cop that got the job because a family member hooked him up

b. firefighter that got the job because a family member hooked him up

c. teacher that got the job because a family member hooked him up

d. other misc administrator that got the job because a family member hooked him up

[Casper]

Good of u to answer the question. And ill accept it as an honest one. As to Ur comment about your opinion. Id compare it a little bit to mine at work..... I can't express it. Difference is my livelihood is at risk if I express it there . If u express yours here , there is little at risk, apparently . I do however believe u should be held to a.different standard when it comes to subjects that are this sensitive in nature. As usual you can disagree. I also believe I like people more If they like bikes.but I personally am not giving people 'passes' anymore. If someone speaks out against my work rights .I will consider going out of my way to adversely effect there's. That appears to be the modern America way. In ending I wish u, the administrator would have expressed his opinion on this matter more like u did in Ur response to me here ..... p.s. if u can collect monies to use to donate to another good cause by seeing to it I 'g.t.f.o.' .... ban me please. Lord knows its a sad state of affairs when the only way to get people contribute to something is by them getting to throw a pie at someone's face. But hey ... modern America . peace

You're comparing apples to oranges. Ohio Riders is not my work. This is strictly voluntary. How awesome would it be if it were, though... But I digress, me expressing my opinion here is not the same as you expressing yours at work. Me expressing my opinion here is the same as you expressing your opinion here, which you are obviously free to do so.

To you holding me personally to a different standard, I certainly disagree. Nothing about me being an admin of a web forum means I lose my right to free speech, nor my opinion. Just as I don't stifle your postings, you should not expect me to stifle my own.

I am not speaking out against your "work rights". Collective bargaining is not a right. It's a privilege. It is not Constitutionally protected. Have you read the bill? Do you fully understand what it entails? I have, every word of it. I will openly discuss any part of it. If you present your argument with valid points, I'd be happy to discuss it. However, accusing me of infringing on your livelihood is about the same as me saying you're stealing my taxes. It's asinine.

As for threatening my livelihood without due reason, I take serious offense to that. I have in no way affected yours. But hey, that's "modern America" right? Do as I say, believe as I believe, have the same opinion as me, or I'll crush you? No, that's just your breed's way, which is the current problem in America. It's the reason we seceded from England. It was the cause of the Revolutionary War. And it's again the cause of turmoil in America. I have a right to my opinion the same as you, except you want to do me harm because you don't agree with my opinion while I'm open to discussing yours. That, sir, is a sad state of affairs.

Goodbye. Stay safe on the roads.

[C-bus]

You're comparing apples to oranges. Ohio Riders is not my work. This is strictly voluntary. How awesome would it be if it were, though... But I digress, me expressing my opinion here is not the same as you expressing yours at work. Me expressing my opinion here is the same as you expressing your opinion here, which you are obviously free to do so.

To you holding me personally to a different standard, I certainly disagree. Nothing about me being an admin of a web forum means I lose my right to free speech, nor my opinion. Just as I don't stifle your postings, you should not expect me to stifle my own.

I am not speaking out against your "work rights". Collective bargaining is not a right. It's a privilege. It is not Constitutionally protected. Have you read the bill? Do you fully understand what it entails? I have, every word of it. I will openly discuss any part of it. If you present your argument with valid points, I'd be happy to discuss it. However, accusing me of infringing on your livelihood is about the same as me saying you're stealing my taxes. It's asinine.

As for threatening my livelihood without due reason, I take serious offense to that. I have in no way affected yours. But hey, that's "modern America" right? Do as I say, believe as I believe, have the same opinion as me, or I'll crush you? No, that's just your breed's way, which is the current problem in America. It's the reason we seceded from England. It was the cause of the Revolutionary War. And it's again the cause of turmoil in America. I have a right to my opinion the same as you, except you want to do me harm because you don't agree with my opinion while I'm open to discussing yours. That, sir, is a sad state of affairs.

Goodbye. Stay safe on the roads.

Well said.

[jhaag]

i find it to be extremely offensive to have a public, tax payer funded group of workers unionizing against those they have been hired to teach and protect, politicians included (obviously not union, but tax payer funded, nonetheless). thats the biggest slap in the face, to me. based on my personal experience the majority of workers here pay between 20 and 50 percent of their benefits. so, why are public sector employees entitled to better? pension? whats that?

if these people want to be pissed at anyone its their respective unions, they're the ones who built the workers up and put them in this position, and in some cases unjustifiably, not the tax payers (dont forget, they're the ones against whom you are unionizing). again, what makes these people so entitled when many dont have the same or similar pay and benefits? isnt this the time for spreading the wealth? well, i'm not feeling the love right now, either. especially when we're being told we all have to make sacrifices.........all except the public sector, i guess.

i dont wish anyone to lose their benefits, jobs or have their pay drastically cut, that is just unreasonable. but, i think its a step in the right direction in the name of sustainability, to use the parlance of our time, and the politicians should be next; i mean lets try to be consistent, here. i have faith that, given the opportunity, good men and women will not let these workers suffer, but will, also, not let it be as easy.

so, how bout we stop with all the bellyaching and fear mongering. if we want to make a real difference why dont we start calling out or politicians for not representing the people instead of special interests, corporations..........and worst of all, themselves.

A wise man will hear, and will increase learning;

And a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels.

But fools despise wisdom and instruction.

[C-bus]

I work in the private sector. If I don't pay enough or have good enough benefits, people leave. When enough people have left, I increase pay and benefits until I can attract and keep the good ones. The same will happen in the public sector. My wife is a special ed teacher by trade. Her program is mandated. When she left to stay home with the kids, her principal tried to offer pay incentives, flexible schedules, and retention bonuses but was quickly smacked by the union.... hence keeping her pay down. This isn't a "poor me" example. She was leaving regardless. But in my business, demand drives wages. A mandate for special ed should drive those wages up. Instead, these teachers are threatened, spit-upon, and punched for the same pay as miss Lippy the kindergarten teacher. If I am the elected city council, am I going to risk personal liability and re-election by cutting staffing and pay (enough to lose staff)? The kool aide is strong, but the truth is that non-union shops don't stay up all night cowering in the corner, wishing they were union. It ain't that bad out there. My hats off to the police, firefighters, teachers, and COs. I won't let you lose your livelihood as a voter and taxpayer, but you can't hold me hostage when times are tough for all of us. And for the record, do any of you Cleveland /Columbus employees really think your Democratic councils, boards, and commissions are going to cut any wages?

[Cheech]

i find it to be extremely offensive to have a public, tax payer funded group of workers unionizing against those they have been hired to teach and protect, politicians included (obviously not union, but tax payer funded, nonetheless). thats the biggest slap in the face, to me. based on my personal experience the majority of workers here pay between 20 and 50 percent of their benefits. so, why are public sector employees entitled to better? pension? whats that?

if these people want to be pissed at anyone its their respective unions, they're the ones who built the workers up and put them in this position, and in some cases unjustifiably, not the tax payers (dont forget, they're the ones against whom you are unionizing). again, what makes these people so entitled when many dont have the same or similar pay and benefits? isnt this the time for spreading the wealth? well, i'm not feeling the love right now, either. especially when we're being told we all have to make sacrifices.........all except the public sector, i guess.

i dont wish anyone to lose their benefits, jobs or have their pay drastically cut, that is just unreasonable. but, i think its a step in the right direction in the name of sustainability, to use the parlance of our time, and the politicians should be next; i mean lets try to be consistent, here. i have faith that, given the opportunity, good men and women will not let these workers suffer, but will, also, not let it be as easy.

so, how bout we stop with all the bellyaching and fear mongering. if we want to make a real difference why dont we start calling out or politicians for not representing the people instead of special interests, corporations..........and worst of all, themselves.

A wise man will hear, and will increase learning;

And a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels.

But fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Coming from someone who openly propagates fearmongering messages, I find this to be quite ironical. Hearing "isnt this the time for spreading the wealth" from someone who constantly railed on raising taxes for the wealthy is like playing in playpen balls of hypocrisy.

[Cheech]

I work in the private sector. If I don't pay enough or have good enough benefits, people leave. When enough people have left, I increase pay and benefits until I can attract and keep the good ones. The same will happen in the public sector. My wife is a special ed teacher by trade. Her program is mandated. When she left to stay home with the kids, her principal tried to offer pay incentives, flexible schedules, and retention bonuses but was quickly smacked by the union.... hence keeping her pay down. This isn't a "poor me" example. She was leaving regardless. But in my business, demand drives wages. A mandate for special ed should drive those wages up. Instead, these teachers are threatened, spit-upon, and punched for the same pay as miss Lippy the kindergarten teacher. If I am the elected city council, am I going to risk personal liability and re-election by cutting staffing and pay (enough to lose staff)? The kool aide is strong, but the truth is that non-union shops don't stay up all night cowering in the corner, wishing they were union. It ain't that bad out there. My hats off to the police, firefighters, teachers, and COs. I won't let you lose your livelihood as a voter and taxpayer, but you can't hold me hostage when times are tough for all of us. And for the record, do any of you Cleveland /Columbus employees really think your Democratic councils, boards, and commissions are going to cut any wages?

What was the reason the union gave for their actions? It's a lot easier to understand your argument if you give the whole story.

[cOoTeR]

so...much...impotent...rage...

Why don't you spend a little less time angry and a little more time articulating why you're angry.

Why I'm angry is I not only work my butt off everyday I also am risking my life everyday. I made $38,000 last year and that's including the overtime I worked. I go into a very hostile environment and tell the people that refused to follow the rules of society to follow the rules of prison. Contrary to popular belief inmates do not stop being criminals just because they are locked up. They break rules and laws while in prison. They are not locked in a cell all day. Most of the day they hang out in the dayroom or out on the yard. They become violent over the dumbest reasons. When that happens I have to put myself in harms way to control the situation. Myself and fellow officers do not carry weapons of any kind. We are greatly out numbered about 50 officers on my shift to the 2500 inmates. It's a very dangerous place that most people spend their entire life trying to avoid. I walk in and do a damn good job for and average wage. Most people on here would never go into the bad side of town or the "hood" but think I should not have a union to help me try to make the best of my work conditions.

I get an average wage but politicians make a lot more and think I should get less. Salary of Speaker of the House...$223,500. Salary of Majority/Minority Leaders...$193,400. Average US Salary...$33,000 to $77,000 Maybe our elected officials should make an average salary too.

Our union does a lot more than people think. It keeps the state out of court by helping resolve issues before they go to court. If an employee feels the employer (the state) by way of its supervisors or other means is doing something wrong they file a grievance and work it out. Instead of getting a lawyer and going to court. If an inmate claims I've done him wrong the state has to investigate that. Without a union to sit in with me during an investigation the state would need to provide me with a lawyer until they found that I was not working within the policies of my job. The union official that sits in saves the state from having to pay for legal council. They help mandate the ratio of officers to inmates. The list goes on but I'm not going to type all day.

People keep saying were unionizing against tax payers, we are tax payers. Cut our income you cut the taxes we pay therefore the state will have less money in its budget for the next go around. Eventually the taxes for everyone will go up.

Edited March 4, 2011 by cOoTeR
typo

[cOoTeR]

Merit based pay also is difficult in most public employment. In a job with no actual product just a service how do you determine merit. For teachers? By students test scores? That just opens the door for them to make class work easier. What about special ed? Their students are bound to have lower test scores. Gym teachers? They can't help if a kids parents have guided him/her into an unhealthy lifestyle. Fire fighters? By the amount of fires they fight? How many times they risk their life? Police by the tickets and arrests? Everyone needs to straighten up if that's the case because they will start nit-picking every little violation. Or corrections officers? By the amount of inmates we keep inside the fence?

Merit based pay opens the door for favoritism and ethics issues. Not to mention the lawsuits based on claims of favoritism and ethics violations.

[Cheech]

Why I'm angry is I not only work my butt off everyday I also am risking my life everyday. I made $38,000 last year and that's including the overtime I worked. I go into a very hostile environment and tell the people that refused to follow the rules of society to follow the rules of prison. Contrary to popular belief inmates do not stop being criminals just because they are locked up. They break rules and laws while in prison. They are not locked in a cell all day. Most of the day they hang out in the dayroom or out on the yard. They become violent over the dumbest reasons. When that happens I have to put myself in harms way to control the situation. Myself and fellow officers do not carry weapons of any kind. We are greatly out numbered about 50 officers on my shift to the 2500 inmates. It's a very dangerous place that most people spend their entire life trying to avoid. I walk in and do a damn good job for and average wage. Most people on here would never go into the bad side of town or the "hood" but think I should not have a union to help me try to make the best of my work conditions.

I get an average wage but politicians make a lot more and think I should get less. Salary of Speaker of the House...$223,500. Salary of Majority/Minority Leaders...$193,400. Average US Salary...$33,000 to $77,000 Maybe our elected officials should make an average salary too.

Our union does a lot more than people think. It keeps the state out of court by helping resolve issues before they go to court. If an employee feels the employer (the state) by way of its supervisors or other means is doing something wrong they file a grievance and work it out. Instead of getting a lawyer and going to court. If an inmate claims I've done him wrong the state has to investigate that. Without a union to sit in with me during an investigation the state would need to provide me with a lawyer until they found that I was not working within the policies of my job. The union official that sits in saves the state from having to pay for legal council. They help mandate the ratio of officers to inmates. The list goes on but I'm not going to type all day.

People keep saying were unionizing against tax payers, we are tax payers. Cut our income you cut the taxes we pay therefore the state will have less money in its budget for the next go around. Eventually the taxes for everyone will go up.

And for putting together a rational, concise argument you (and your cause) can be taken a lot more seriously than OMGIMSOANGRY!!!!!!!. Thank you. I agree with a lot of your points, but as a little point of advice I'd stay away from the "well he makes a lot more money than me! he must be overpaid!" argument as it usually comes across as jealousy, especially when you are making a false comparison (comparing the Congressional House Speaker when you should have been comparing the Ohio/Wisconsin House Speaker).

[YSR_Racer_99]

Cutting an income by $10k wouldn't equate to 10k lost in taxes. In the end, it would end up a net gain for the wage payer (state). If you're at 30% tax rate, it equates to a $7k "savings".

[Cdubyah]

I get an average wage but politicians make a lot more and think I should get less. Salary of Speaker of the House...$223,500. Salary of Majority/Minority Leaders...$193,400. Average US Salary...$33,000 to $77,000 Maybe our elected officials should make an average salary too.

I agree with this. I'm not sure if these figures are right or not. But it seems the cuts always seem to come at the bottom where they really aren't needed. I guess that's my whole beef with this. It's an upside down pyramid.

That being said, I think a compromise has to be reached at some point. I would rather stay stagnant on pay and have old Fred, or newb Johnny keep their job, rather than me get a raise. I have seen both incentive based pay, and flat across the board. Both in good economy and bad. One year it worked, the next it didn't.

Edited March 4, 2011 by Cdubyah

[cOoTeR]

I'm not asking for a raise I just want to be left alone and not be portrayed as a threat to the economy. I think its a little messed up that politicians claim I'm over paid but have no problem with able bodied people on welfare that do not work or contribute to society. I understand that there are people who need assistance but there are many that don't. I feel that one should be drug tested to receive benefits. We have injured vets that struggle to make ends meet while we pay gangbangers to be unemployed.

[Casper]

I'm all for politicians taking pay cuts. I've said before if I ever get elected to any office, anything over what I'm currently making will be donated to charity. Unfortunately, there's no system setup for politicians to say, "hey, I make $XX,XXX now, I don't need $XXX,XXX, go ahead and keep the difference". I'd most likely donate it to education or the such. If it's a state position, maybe pick the poorest school districts in the state and each year and donate the difference to one of them. I realize it isn't much, but it's a start.

Now with that said, I think too many who oppose the bill are mainly afraid of pay cuts. Cooter, that's obviously your number one fear. Realistically, I believe you have nothing to fear at all. I don't think many do. Now maybe raises won't be as good in the future, and benefits might start to slack off. But as you said, you get paid an average wage. Your benefits are not average though. They're superb comparatively. That's the main thing I see being cut back, as the state can't afford it.

Do I think you personally should get paid more, Cooter? Yeah. I think prison guards should get paid on par with police officers. Essentially, they have the same duties and risks. Under this bill, the restructuring of salaries may actually help you in this case. If they cut the pay of administrators/support staff at the prison (my grandmother was one, they pay very well), that leaves more money in the budget for the guards all while still being able to cut costs.

I think too many people are simply afraid of change itself. Truth is, nobody knows what exactly will happen if this bill passes. For all you know, you might get a bit more pay, but have to pay more for insurance and retirement making it a wash. Hell, you might get better raises because of your performance and end up making better money. Nobody knows.

Kasich said the other night on TV that he will have the state's budget balanced within one year. That's what we need. We're $8b in the hole right now. "b", as in billion. Balancing that deficit in one year will negatively affect almost everyone immediately. However, what's the pay off? A future of balanced budgets and no more debt to worry about? I think it's worth it, and I think the federal government should quickly following Kasich's lead. It's been said before but the truth is overwhelmingly important; If I ran my home the way the government is ran, I'd be bankrupt living on the streets. The government is getting close to that.

I'm not asking for a raise I just want to be left alone and not be portrayed as a threat to the economy. I think its a little messed up that politicians claim I'm over paid but have no problem with able bodied people on welfare that do not work or contribute to society. I understand that there are people who need assistance but there are many that don't. I feel that one should be drug tested to receive benefits. We have injured vets that struggle to make ends meet while we pay gangbangers to be unemployed.

Where has anyone said prison guards are overpaid? That's one I haven't seen. And I totally agree with the drug testing for benefits. That's coming.

[cOoTeR]

I'm all for politicians taking pay cuts. I've said before if I ever get elected to any office, anything over what I'm currently making will be donated to charity. Unfortunately, there's no system setup for politicians to say, "hey, I make $XX,XXX now, I don't need $XXX,XXX, go ahead and keep the difference". I'd most likely donate it to education or the such. If it's a state position, maybe pick the poorest school districts in the state and each year and donate the difference to one of them. I realize it isn't much, but it's a start.

Now with that said, I think too many who oppose the bill are mainly afraid of pay cuts. Cooter, that's obviously your number one fear. Realistically, I believe you have nothing to fear at all. I don't think many do. Now maybe raises won't be as good in the future, and benefits might start to slack off. But as you said, you get paid an average wage. Your benefits are not average though. They're superb comparatively. That's the main thing I see being cut back, as the state can't afford it.

Do I think you personally should get paid more, Cooter? Yeah. I think prison guards should get paid on par with police officers. Essentially, they have the same duties and risks. Under this bill, the restructuring of salaries may actually help you in this case. If they cut the pay of administrators/support staff at the prison (my grandmother was one, they pay very well), that leaves more money in the budget for the guards all while still being able to cut costs.

I think too many people are simply afraid of change itself. Truth is, nobody knows what exactly will happen if this bill passes. For all you know, you might get a bit more pay, but have to pay more for insurance and retirement making it a wash. Hell, you might get better raises because of your performance and end up making better money. Nobody knows.

Kasich said the other night on TV that he will have the state's budget balanced within one year. That's what we need. We're $8b in the hole right now. "b", as in billion. Balancing that deficit in one year will negatively affect almost everyone immediately. However, what's the pay off? A future of balanced budgets and no more debt to worry about? I think it's worth it, and I think the federal government should quickly following Kasich's lead. It's been said before but the truth is overwhelmingly important; If I ran my home the way the government is ran, I'd be bankrupt living on the streets. The government is getting close to that.

Where has anyone said prison guards are overpaid? That's one I haven't seen. And I totally agree with the drug testing for benefits. That's coming.

I will address most of this later as I'm about to walk into work. But senator Jones and a majority of the proponents for sb5 I heard speak at the state house. Have all stated that public employees should be paid less because they make more than private sector employees. Based on a biased study.

[Cheech]

. It's been said before but the truth is overwhelmingly important; If I ran my home the way the government is ran, I'd be bankrupt living on the streets. The government is getting close to that.

I said it before and I'll say it again: Family budgets aren't the same as governmental budgets. Go find a macroeconomics professor and tell them that, he/she will punch you in the face.

[Casper]

I will address most of this later as I'm about to walk into work. But senator Jones and a majority of the proponents for sb5 I heard speak at the state house. Have all stated that public employees should be paid less because they make more than private sector employees. Based on a biased study.

In general, not all. And that's a true statement.

Take for instance the IT director of a local K12 school (not going to name the school). He makes over $140k/yr, plus has all of the excellent benefits of being a public school employee. The IT department has in total 15-20ish employees. In the private sector an equivalent position with equivalent responsibility would pay closer to $90-120/k, and not as great of benefits. What pays his extra $20-50K/yr + benefits? Taxes, either property or from state funds.

Here's a better example for you personally: There's an administrative assistant position open in the corrections department. The STARTING pay is $27.93-$36.59 per hour. Full time. That's $58094.40-$76107.20 per year without overtime. That's quite a bit more than what you make to be an administrative assistant at the prison. Who do you think deserves that money? You, or the person sitting at a desk answering phones, scheduling meetings, etc.

Starting pay for someone working the window at the BMV is $13.86-14.85/hr. No joke, I just looked it up. Position title is "Clerk I". That's about the same position as customer service at Best Buy, Walmart, Kroger, etc. Maybe easier since they don't exactly have to walk around all that much compared to going to departments within the store, etc. How much do you think those start at? $8.00/hr ish. So, start them out at $8.00/hr. Have an online customer satisfaction survey and give monthly bonuses to the top rated clerks. I bet immediately your trips to the BMV improve drastically. Employees will work harder to get the bonuses. Those unhappy with the lower pay (most likely because they weren't working as hard as the others) will leave.

No, I don't think all state positions are overpaid. But I do think there are lots of instances where they are, and lots of instances where we as a state can save money. If it were up to me, and as I've read the bill, no current contracts will be affected. This will only affect new contracts from here forward. Should it start with the little guys? Hell no. I agree a top down approach is best. But anything is better than nothing.

And for a few extra thoughts while they're in my head: Get rid of the idea of spending the entire budget or losing the money the following year. Asinine. Offer a percentage bonus for being UNDER budget. For example, if a department's budget is $500,000 for the year and they come in at $400,000 for the year, take 50% of the underage and divide it among the employees of the department as a fiscal-year-end bonus. This would encourage EVERYONE to try to be thrifty, all while still saving the state money. Reward for excellence.

[Casper]

I said it before and I'll say it again: Family budgets aren't the same as governmental budgets. Go find a macroeconomics professor and tell them that, he/she will punch you in the face.

Debt is debt. No debt is good. Spending more than you have is bad. Surplus is good. Not sure how else to put that.