Administration killing jobs?

[Rod38um]

It seems every time you look at the news you here something about this administration doing something that inadvertantly kills jobs. Now it seems they are taking on manufacturers head on and telling them their problems will go away if they use foreign labor.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Juszkiewicz said in a statement that the U.S. government has effectively suggested "that the use of wood from

India that is not finished by Indian workers is illegal, not because of U.S. law, but because it is the Justice Department's interpretation of a law in India."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/02/gibson-feds-want-guitar-woodwork-done-by-foreign-labor/#ixzz1WrU1IswR

[buildit]

[Jcarlson]

Foreign labor is what killed the jobs in the first place. WTF are they thinking?

[crb]

The government is letting or about to let Mexican truck cross the border and drive all over the us.

[buildit]

The government is letting or about to let Mexican truck cross the border and drive all over the us.

That would be a huge win for the drug trade and human trafficing.

[drc32-0]

It seems every time you look at the news you here something about this administration doing something that inadvertantly kills jobs. Now it seems they are taking on manufacturers head on and telling them their problems will go away if they use foreign labor.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/02/gibson-feds-want-guitar-woodwork-done-by-foreign-labor/#ixzz1WrU1IswR

I see you're going hypocrite again.In another thread you supported giving tax breaks to companies that use socialist labor.

What's Kasich's net job creation in Ohio,maybe minus 7000?

BTW,I'm not supporting the posted decision.I don't support any decision that hurts American workers.

[ReconRat]

The main reason shipping centers are being built between here and Mexico, is because of all the stuff bought from overseas, is now imported into Mexican ports for delivery to the USA. Our ports for importing are overloaded, and apparently there's not going to be anymore built in the USA to handle the incoming load.

So if we don't want the truck traffic between here and Mexico, quit buying crap from overseas. Of course, that would solve one problem, and create many others.

Choose wisely...

edit: oh yeah, and the deal with the imports from India, centers around the news that Gibson Guitar got busted AGAIN for importing wood from India. Imports that India said was ok, but the USA interprets to be not so, per the USA's interpretation of law in India. Go figure that one out. I can't...

Edited September 4, 2011 by ReconRat

[Rod38um]

BTW,I'm not supporting the posted decision.I don't support any decision that hurts American workers.

No, but you do choose to support those who want to punish the evil business and run them out of the country........ I guess in your mind, once they are unemployed, they're no longer paying union dues so..... who cares, right?

[Rod38um]

I see you're going hypocrite again.In another thread you supported giving tax breaks to companies that use socialist labor.

Your words..... not mine. I'm in favor of things that create business.......I understand that companies that produce a product hire people who in turn pay taxes which contribute to the total tax revenue. That revenue can be used for multiple things, like protection, etc.

I also understand that when you resent those who have more than you so passionately that you demonize companies and try your best take all that they have...... they leave! When they leave, the jobs go with them leaving us with nothing except unemployment, welfare and SSI........ many people drawing from the system, fewer paying in..... makes a large debt......and.......

Oh crap....... you suckered me into talking sense again!!! I'm sorry, I'll try to refrain.

[drc32-0]

Yawn.

You're way too hypocritical to take serious.

Enjoy your labor day holiday,brought to you by unions.I think I'll go for a ride.

[serpentracer]

this just proves Fox news spins things into a story to benifit their political backed republican party.

that type of wood had regulations applied to it's use long before obama took office.

Edited September 5, 2011 by serpentracer

[Jcarlson]

When it comes to unions I'm a mixed bag of nuts, and I know I'm going to catch shit for this, but here goes.

First off, I come from union roots - deep union roots, from coal mines to factories to education. At one time I was of the union branch myself - IEBW 86 in Rochester NY. I am 100% in favor and supportive of the protections they provide from the employer, the quality of workmanship they provide, the pride they take in the things they poduce.

However, when it comes to the "You can't fire me because I'm entitled to this job even though I'm a dick-bag through and through" (my words, not an actual quote), or the entitlements they feel they're owed just because they pay a due or have been there for 20 years, or the jobs bank the autoworkers union had where guys sit and drink coffee all day (or stay home, or work another job) and still get full compensation and never lift a finger for 12 years, or the prevailing wage (wish I could tell my boss he HAS to pay me a certain amount) and a bunch of other things too numerous to mention here - that's baloney!!

Since when did health insurance become an entitlement? The last I looked in my employee manual it's listed under BENEFITS - something offered by the company to entice me to come work for them. No employer HAS to offer benefits other than Worker's Comp and overtime pay.

I'm worth what the job pays and nobody owes me anything for something I didn't earn. If I lose my job for whatever reason (and yes, I've been outsourced to India) I'm SOL and if the only job I can find pays minimum wage with no benefts then so be it. If that's not enough for my situation then that's my problem. I go find a better one. And if I'm an employer, don't you dare tell me I owe you something you haven't earned. Try that once and you'll be looking for a better job real quick.

I'm also an Army Veteran and damn proud of it. I signed up willingly. I did my time. I was paid for my time and service. I was honorably discharged. That's it! Done! Fini! The Government doesn't owe me shit. Now, if I was injured in anyway shape or form while on duty - different story, but otherwise I'm done, sit down, shutup and have a sandwhich.

It's called doing it for yourself people. That's how this country was founded but sadly that's been exploited by those who feel they're entitled. The ONLY things you're entitled to are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness (or Happy Hour, whichever you prefer ).

Back to my initial point - unions ARE a good thing, don't get me wrong, but they have taken some things waaaay to far. This is why our products are built overseas. They cost too much to make here. The Chevy Spark can't be made here affordably. That's why it's made in India and costs $2,000.

When Milton Hershey was building his candy factory in what is now Hershey Pa near Harrisburg, he looked out his window and saw them using a machine to dig a hole. "What's that?", he asked. He was told that machine could do the work of forty men. He said "good, get rid of it and hire 40 men". Perhaps the Messiah should take business lessons from Milton Hershey?

I know those were some scattered thoughts, but I had to vent. I'm off my soapbox now. Time for someone else to let me have it.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Jcarlson
Typos and punctuation errors

[Likwid]

When Milton Hershey was building his candy factory in what is now Hershey Pa near Harrisburg, he looked out his window and saw them using a machine to dig a hole. "What's that?", he asked. He was told that machine could do the work of forty men. He said "good, get rid of it and hire 40 men". Perhaps the Messiah should take business lessons from Milton Hershey?

That's pretty dumb to idolize that.

[drc32-0]

When it comes to unions I'm a mixed bag of nuts, and I know I'm going to catch shit for this, but here goes.

First off, I come from union roots - deep union roots, from coal mines to factories to education. At one time I was of the union branch myself - IEBW 86 in Rochester NY. I am 100% in favor and supportive of the protections they provide from the employer, the quality of workmanship they provide, the pride they take in the things they poduce.

However, when it comes to the "You can't fire me because I'm entitled to this job even though I'm a dick-bag through and through" (my words, not an actual quote), or the entitlements they feel they're owed just because they pay a due or have been there for 20 years, or the jobs bank the autoworkers union had where guys sit and drink coffee all day (or stay home, or work another job) and still get full compensation and never lift a finger for 12 years, or the prevailing wage (wish I could tell my boss he HAS to pay me a certain amount) and a bunch of other things too numerous to mention here - that's baloney!!

Since when did health insurance become an entitlement? The last I looked in my employee manual it's listed under BENEFITS - something offered by the company to entice me to come work for them. No employer HAS to offer benefits other than Worker's Comp and overtime pay.

I'm worth what the job pays and nobody owes me anything for something I didn't earn. If I lose my job for whatever reason (and yes, I've been outsourced to India) I'm SOL and if the only job I can find pays minimum wage with no benefts then so be it. If that's not enough for my situation then that's my problem. I go find a better one. And if I'm an employer, don't you dare tell me I owe you something you haven't earned. Try that once and you'll be looking for a better job real quick.

I'm also an Army Veteran and damn proud of it. I signed up willingly. I did my time. I was paid for my time and service. I was honorably discharged. That's it! Done! Fini! The Government doesn't owe me shit. Now, if I was injured in anyway shape or form while on duty - different story, but otherwise I'm done, sit down, shutup and have a sandwhich.

It's called doing it for yourself people. That's how this country was founded but sadly that's been exploited by those who feel they're entitled. The ONLY things you're entitled to are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness (or Happy Hour, whichever you prefer ).

Back to my initial point - unions ARE a good thing, don't get me wrong, but they have taken some things waaaay to far. This is why our products are built overseas. They cost too much to make here. The Chevy Spark can't be made here affordably. That's why it's made in India and costs $2,000.

When Milton Hershey was building his candy factory in what is now Hershey Pa near Harrisburg, he looked out his window and saw them using a machine to dig a hole. "What's that?", he asked. He was told that machine could do the work of forty men. He said "good, get rid of it and hire 40 men". Perhaps the Messiah should take business lessons from Milton Hershey?

I know those were some scattered thoughts, but I had to vent. I'm off my soapbox now. Time for someone else to let me have it.

You're not going to get any shit from me.I agree with most of you're post.Any organization made by man is not perfect.Unions definitly have their problems and you mentioned the worst problem...protecting the worthless.If we could/would fix this problem it would be a major improvement.But from my experience they(the worthless)only represent about 5% of the total.I imagine you will have that anywhere.I know it's in the non-union because I've seen them and their work...I've been hired to fix it.The worthless in the non-union is usually a family member or some special suck ass,not unlike unions.

I know the difference that being union has made in my life.It has trained me for a transferable skill(not payed for with government money) with good wages and benifits.The tax payer won't have to pick up my health care,children's school lunches or retirement.

I have to disagree with you on your statement that unions cause outscourcing.Unions only represent about 12% of the private sector workforce.Of course that leaves 88% to the non-union.Do you really believe that the millions of jobs that have been outscourced has come from that 12%?Of course not.For the last thirty years the m.o. of corporations has been union>non-union>over seas.Unions are not the cause.In the Dispatch today there is a front page story about the effects of the downsizing of Longaberger on the economy of the village of Dresden.Longaberger was and always has been staunchly anti-union,yet those non-union workers could not work cheap enough to keep those jobs in America.I know this is just one example,but millioms of NON-UNION jobs have been outscourced.This problem is not union caused and it is not a union only concern.Unions are just the scapegoat,much like what is happening right now in Ohio.

Check out the link that JRM (?) posted today under the SB5 thread.

BTW,I served too...Air Force 1980-1984 Europe.Thanks for serving.

Edited September 6, 2011 by drc32-0

[Jcarlson]

Thanks DRC, and back at ya. Once again don't get me wrong. My statements are not about all unions like the independant guys (plumbers, electricians, carpenters, truckers, etc). It's about the factory workers, the educators, the autoworkers - the bigger unions like that.

What I mean by outsourcing is, back in the 70's and 80's we lost tons of auto jobs to Mexico. Why? Because they'll do for $4.00/hr what the union guys in Detroit, Cleveland, Toledo, Akron, Canton, Youngstown will do for $15.00 and with no union contracts, reps, demands, etc. If the union's demands cost too much the company has to do what it needs to do to stay in business and maintain a profit. Simple economics says that if your labor/production costs are too high you'll price yourself out of the market. So what do you do? You cut labor costs by going where it's cheap. You buy robots instead of using humans. Sure, lots of guys are good welders, but a robot does it perfect evey time, 24x7, without a break, without a contrct, it won't strike and it doesn't bitch. But at the same time, how many guys lost their homes to robots? Once again my example of the Chevy Spark - it costs too much to make here so they make it overseas. It can't be imported here because it doesn't meet EPA and safety standards. GM is looking into upgrading it to meet those standards so they can import it here, but the cost will rise to $10,000. Silly to think an American car company has to import it's own product back to the US.

I belonged to the IEBW86 and I used to build control panels for railway systems. The company I worked for in Roch. NY was owned by a bigger company across town. I delivered a board there once. I had a 5 lb box about 12"x3"24". I parked the truck, carried the box in to the receiving desk and put it on the counter. They told me to put it back on the truck and wait for the guy in the yard to come get it. I asked why since I was already there. He said they had guys to do that and I was taking work away from someone else. Ok, fine. I put it back and jumped in the cab. A guy with a forklift and a skid came over, put that little box in the skid, strapped it down, and took it to the loading dock where another forklift picked it up and took it somewhere. Only then could I go inside to have the invocie stamped. I was at the desk about 2 minutes and I left. What a crock of shit!! How much money did that cost the company when I already had it in there? All because the union contract said that's how it's done.

I got tired of that $6.48/hr so in 1990 I went back to college (DeVry here in Cols), put myself in massive debt, and got my degree in programming. I'm not union but I got outsourced to India by National City back in 2002. I had to train my replacement and I was out the door with 10 weeks severance. I have a new job and love it, but I can still be out the door in a minute. I am where I am because I did it for myself. No government help, no entitlements, but by my own sweat and tears. I retooled myself and became successful in my own right (I aint rich but I do ok). This time though I have money in the bank, I have a healthy 401k & IRA, and I live within my means. Nothing is financed but my house. I learned the hard way!!

The teacher up in Centerburg Oh that burned the cross on the kids arm. He was fired for that and rightfully so. The teacher's union took it to court. After a year long court battle (couldn't go to court over summer break - union rules) the guy was still out of a job, but he got his pension, the kids is still burned, and it cost that tiny little school system $900,000 to defend it's actions. WHY? Centerburg is not a big town at all and doesn't have a ton of money to begin with, but they had to shell out all that money they really don't because of this doof wad and his union rep. That money could have been used for books, computers, buses, maintanence, a new teacher to replace him.

SB5/Issue 2 - whatever. What, they can't pay for their own helath insurance like everyone else does? Waa Waa Waa. Tell it to someone else. Pay them what they're worth - absolutely, but they need to pay for the perks just like the rest of us.

One last thing - in my earlier post my reference to the "Messiah :bow:" was meant as sarcasm, but I have no way of showing that here. Sorry for the confusion.

[Disclaimer]

You seem to have a very myopic view of the "bigger unions" and what they do. And, I don't think you understand how strategic outsourcing decisions are made (Like, why are many of the Cadillacs still built in the US? Why are Camaro's built in Canada? If everything was so cheap in Mexico, they'd ALL be down there right?), and I don't think you realize what percentage "labor" really makes up on the production of a new automobile. Nor, do I think you understand the different subsidies the workers overseas and even in Mexico (I've visited a few maquliadoras) are provided by or mandated that company provide by the governments.

Of course, I can only speak about the auto industry because it's near and dear to me, but I surmise the other "bigger unions" got where they are because of mutual agreements and collective bargaining in good faith between the "management" and the "laborers".

Plus, it seems you've fallen into the trap that I see a lot of other non-"bigger union" people fall into, and that's bitterness. Bitterness of what the "bigger unions" have fought for in their respective industries that you didn't get a slice of when you were coming through your life path.

Kinda funny we're talking about this on LABOR Day. I've never belonged to a union, but I do have the day off today - I dunno about you, but I tip my hat to the "bigger unions" for that.

Jussayin'

Edited September 5, 2011 by JRMMiii

[drc32-0]

Jcarlson....

You're situation represents what I am saying.When you said you were not union but your job was outscourced anyway...that's what I'm getting at.This problem is not a union caused problem,it happens to non-union workers everyday,we can not work cheap enough for the unsatiable greed of bankers and corporations.You mention the $4.00 hr worker,can you work for that?Should we give unlimited access,and tax breaks, to companies that search the global plantation for the most desperate workers to exploit?Think of the impact this stratagy has on our tax base when both the workers and the corporations are not paying taxes here.That is why we are in the crunch we are in now and the politicians are blaming the public unions.The real problem is unsatiable corporate greed AND US,the American consumer,demanding the cheapest price.When we flock to communist china mart for the cheapest price we are killing the American economy,and tax base.Four members of the Walton family are in the top 10 of the wealthiest people in the world and I have to buy their employee's school lunches?And pick up their healthcare?That's not a union problem,that's a moral problem.I can't fathom or support that level of greed.But others not only support it,but turn around and say working people are not worth $40,000+ a year.

Of working people in America,who do you think uses the most public assistance...union or non-union?Why should my tax dollars go to subsidizing the non-union bosses greed?There is a hugh hidden cost in providing non-union workers with taxpayer provided necessities.

[drc32-0]

Jcarlson...

I commend you on going back to Devry and getting you're degree.Lifelong learning is crucial to staying employable.

I'm in the proccess of getting my solar and windfarm certs through the I.B.E.W.There's a couple of big solar projects I have my eye on in Californa.

[Rod38um]

Jcarlson....

You're situation represents what I am saying.When you said you were not union but your job was outscourced anyway...that's what I'm getting at.This problem is not a union caused problem,it happens to non-union workers everyday,we can not work cheap enough for the unsatiable greed of bankers and corporations

As I said before, the union is not the sole cause but they do play a part. If they didnt totally support the democratic party, they would only play one part but through that support, they inadvertently advocate a whole host of other business killing legislation. Unions need to get on board with supporting politicians and legislation that make it cheaper and easier to do business in the USA.

[Pokey]

GE is sending allot of jobs overseas......

[drc32-0]

As I said before, the union is not the sole cause but they do play a part. If they didnt totally support the democratic party, they would only play one part but through that support, they inadvertently advocate a whole host of other business killing legislation. Unions need to get on board with supporting politicians and legislation that make it cheaper and easier to do business in the USA.

Jeez...ya still flogging that dead horse?Quite a few posts back on the SB5 thread I mentioned letting the illegal aliens and Chinese have the public sector jobs,like a good non-union employer.How can you get any cheaper?Maybe reinstitute slavery?Maybe we try letting the white folks be the slaves this time,see how we like it.Since we're doing unto others all around the globe.

[Jcarlson]

I think the biggest part of the problem now is we're in too deep to get out. I think the only way to get out would be to go back to the 40's when it took 100 or so guys to build a car and that sort of thing. That sounds great and all but look what that would do to the country. We'd all lose everything we have and would have to start all over from scratch.

There is no magic bullet. There is no one right answer. No President can create jobs. You can create work which then creates jobs, but what jobs will they create? They need to be sustaining jobs, not part time census taker jobs. How do you do that? I have no idea.

President Bush opened the flood gates when he gave tax breaks to corporations that sent jobs overseas. The idea was to use that saved money to reinvest in the company and create new things. Great idea but that's not what happened. Oh they saved a ton of money - trust me, but it went into the coffers, not into R&D. The fat cats pocketed the money and laughed all the way to the bank. And what did it do to us? It put too many of us on the streets.

President Clinto mandated banks to give loans to people that don't deserve loans. Everyone should have a piece of the American Dream and own their own home. Look where that got us.

The Porkulous bill was supposed to go to the banks so they could lend it back out so we could buy more things, stimulate the economy, blah blah blah. Guess what? It didn't happen. The banks kept all the money and didn't lend a dime!

Pokey - you mentioned GE is sending jobs over seas. Guess who was inline for many of the Green Jobs and grants for Green technologies? GE, that's who. Guess who is one of President Obama's advisors? The president and CEO of GE.

So who exactly is to blame? Big union? Big banking? Big Corporation? Big polititian? Big Wallstreet? Everyone one is guilty of getting us where we are today. It isn't just one industry.

I'm an analyst by profession. I look at things and figure out where the problems are and how to fix it, where the weaknesses are and how to strengthen them, and to find where the flaws are and make them better. I can't fix this one though. I just can't do it.

Jim

[Rod38um]

More job killing....... another example of promoting an unfriendly environment for business:

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2010/07/ohio_hamburger_chain_says_insu.html

The financial hit will make it hard for the company to maintain its 421 restaurants, let alone create new jobs, says company spokesman Jamie Richardson. White Castle employs more than 10,000 people nationwide, and more than 1,200 in Ohio.

[Pokey]

I think the biggest part of the problem now is we're in too deep to get out. I think the only way to get out would be to go back to the 40's when it took 100 or so guys to build a car and that sort of thing. That sounds great and all but look what that would do to the country. We'd all lose everything we have and would have to start all over from scratch.

There is no magic bullet. There is no one right answer. No President can create jobs. You can create work which then creates jobs, but what jobs will they create? They need to be sustaining jobs, not part time census taker jobs. How do you do that? I have no idea.

President Bush opened the flood gates when he gave tax breaks to corporations that sent jobs overseas. The idea was to use that saved money to reinvest in the company and create new things. Great idea but that's not what happened. Oh they saved a ton of money - trust me, but it went into the coffers, not into R&D. The fat cats pocketed the money and laughed all the way to the bank. And what did it do to us? It put too many of us on the streets.

President Clinto mandated banks to give loans to people that don't deserve loans. Everyone should have a piece of the American Dream and own their own home. Look where that got us.

The Porkulous bill was supposed to go to the banks so they could lend it back out so we could buy more things, stimulate the economy, blah blah blah. Guess what? It didn't happen. The banks kept all the money and didn't lend a dime!

Pokey - you mentioned GE is sending jobs over seas. Guess who was inline for many of the Green Jobs and grants for Green technologies? GE, that's who. Guess who is one of President Obama's advisors? The president and CEO of GE.

So who exactly is to blame? Big union? Big banking? Big Corporation? Big polititian? Big Wallstreet? Everyone one is guilty of getting us where we are today. It isn't just one industry.

I'm an analyst by profession. I look at things and figure out where the problems are and how to fix it, where the weaknesses are and how to strengthen them, and to find where the flaws are and make them better. I can't fix this one though. I just can't do it.

Jim

I am very familiar with GE....trust me.

[drc32-0]

I think the biggest part of the problem now is we're in too deep to get out. I think the only way to get out would be to go back to the 40's when it took 100 or so guys to build a car and that sort of thing. That sounds great and all but look what that would do to the country. We'd all lose everything we have and would have to start all over from scratch.

There is no magic bullet. There is no one right answer. No President can create jobs. You can create work which then creates jobs, but what jobs will they create? They need to be sustaining jobs, not part time census taker jobs. How do you do that? I have no idea.

President Bush opened the flood gates when he gave tax breaks to corporations that sent jobs overseas. The idea was to use that saved money to reinvest in the company and create new things. Great idea but that's not what happened. Oh they saved a ton of money - trust me, but it went into the coffers, not into R&D. The fat cats pocketed the money and laughed all the way to the bank. And what did it do to us? It put too many of us on the streets.

President Clinto mandated banks to give loans to people that don't deserve loans. Everyone should have a piece of the American Dream and own their own home. Look where that got us.

The Porkulous bill was supposed to go to the banks so they could lend it back out so we could buy more things, stimulate the economy, blah blah blah. Guess what? It didn't happen. The banks kept all the money and didn't lend a dime!

Pokey - you mentioned GE is sending jobs over seas. Guess who was inline for many of the Green Jobs and grants for Green technologies? GE, that's who. Guess who is one of President Obama's advisors? The president and CEO of GE.

So who exactly is to blame? Big union? Big banking? Big Corporation? Big polititian? Big Wallstreet? Everyone one is guilty of getting us where we are today. It isn't just one industry.

I'm an analyst by profession. I look at things and figure out where the problems are and how to fix it, where the weaknesses are and how to strengthen them, and to find where the flaws are and make them better. I can't fix this one though. I just can't do it.

Jim

I tend to agree with you that we are in too far to fix it.I think America is in a death spiral.When you stated who is to blame I think you left out one of the biggest,if not the biggest, contributors...the American consumer.By demanding the lowest price we have put companies in a positon that they had to take jobs overseas or their competitors would,and we would reward the competitor with our business.Greed,from the very top to the very bottom has killed our economy.

The only hope I see is if we,the consumer,make a concerted effort to buy American.It would increase our tax base,put a lot of people back to work and send the c.e.o.'s a message that they would have to listen to.

I'm finding a lot of the off brand name products are still made in America.Also,I find a lot of stuff on the internet,if you rely on brick and mortar stores you're not going to find many American made products.But they are out there.Just google whatever you're looking for and you might be surprised with the quality of the American made products that come up.

Unfortunatly you won't find everything...like American made dual sports,sport bikes,sport tourers,adventure tourer etc,etc. Although I am very interested in the new sport tourer Motus is bringing out.It will be interesting to see what the price will be.

Edited September 9, 2011 by drc32-0