NESBA - 9-24-11/9-25-11 - BeaveRun

[Cbosman]

- So I will be there on the 24th (BDay gift from the wife) my first NESBA and BeaveRun Day -

I will be in the beginner class ... Anything I need to prep the bike for other than tape lights and mirrors ... whats the rule for coolant? Tires at 50%?

I am looking forward to this!

[i-Zapp]

thinking about it, but at 280 (guest, plus late reg fee), its almost too rich for my blood.

[Moto-Brian]

thinking about it, but at 280 (guest, plus late reg fee), its almost too rich for my blood.

You need to consider Moto Series as the prices they are offering and the coaching, it is a STEAL vs NESBA's rates. Wow... $280 for Beaver???

[redkow97]

It's a skills enhancement day.

Track walk in the AM, with control rider fly-bys to demonstrate appropriate lines in various turns. There is basically 1 CR for every 2 riders.

Around 10 AM, there are two 20-minute "get loose" sessions, and then basically open track the rest of the day (minus the lunch break for the corner workers).

I agree that $280 is steep, but it's a LOT more track time than a regular day. I did one last year at Putnam and found it to be a really good way to learn a new-to-me track very quickly. If I had any major criticism, it was that there was more track time than my legs could handle. You can't beat the cost-per-lap if you're fit enough to stay out for 30+ minutes at a time, rest for 15, and then go back out for 30+ more minutes.

Edited September 13, 2011 by redkow97

[redkow97]

Anything I need to prep the bike for other than tape lights and mirrors ... whats the rule for coolant? Tires at 50%?

reading the NESBA riders' manual would answer all of these questions... I believe you also certify that you've read and understand it when you register. Something to keep in mind.

No coolant restrictions in NESBA's beginner group though. Just tape lights and mirrors, and have the bike in good working order. I'd remove the mirrors all together.

They will check brake pad life, brake lever travel, throttle return, and general "is everything held on well enough that it's not going to fall off?" stuff.

do yourself a favor and safety wire or silicone your oil cap and plug. I got sprayed with oil at Putnam because some guy on an R1 didn't think it was necessary to drill his cap. it's plastic ferchrissakes. Not hard to drill. He was laughing about it. My bike and I (not to mention the track) got sprayed with oil. Don't be that guy.

If I don't go hang out at Nelson w/ WERA, I'll show up and pit-bitch for my buddies who are control riding or out to play.

[Cbosman]

do yourself a favor and safety wire or silicone your oil cap and plug. I got sprayed with oil at Putnam because some guy on an R1 didn't think it was necessary to drill his cap. it's plastic ferchrissakes. Not hard to drill. He was laughing about it. My bike and I (not to mention the track) got sprayed with oil. Don't be that guy.

Thanks for the tip ... I think I will start with the silicone ... will have to learn a little more about wiring

[redkow97]

ask someone to show you at lunch. The wiring is easy. The drilling is what sucks.

Still not "hard," just a little time-consuming. And drill-bit consuming

[Moto-Brian]

While that is cool and all, I still think that the Moto Series is a better choice/value. The coach availability is high and there are ALWAYS some guys that can give a 1 on 1 coaching experience.

Put it this way... If it is the first event you are doing, you are NOT going to get that much out of it in such a degree that it blows every other company's program away.

For example, may have more 1 on 1 and more coaches to rider and more laps and time on track. BUT, a typical first timer is by no means going to be able to do 45 minutes per hour of solid track riding. I also don't think that the coaching is going to be Swantz or Champions School advanced. I believe that it would be more along the lines of basic knowledge - otherwise, again... first time rider will not absorb too much info as it is enough that they are out on track and taking all that in.

Not saying the NESBA deal isn't worth it and certainly not saying it sucks. But, I think for the money to run Beaver, $125 for the instructional class with Moto Series is a better choice. 7 sessions (20 minutes each) and classroom. Think about that. You get 30 minutes, 15 minutes of rest and then back to track for NESBA. When do you get classroom? Moto Series running 20 minutes and approximately 10-15 minutes of classroom/instructional.

Again, all up to the OP. But, at more than 1/2 the savings, I'd try something else. Of course, you missed the Moto Series track day, but you could do Nelson. Or, you could come to Mid-Ohio and run their program and get a better track, same classroom style idea and time. Or, do a Grattan STT, but that's a bit further for you and may not work out when you factor travel costs.

All in all, a LOT of choices and whatever you choose, at least you are getting to the track! Good luck!!

[redkow97]

While that is cool and all, I still think that the Moto Series is a better choice/value. The coach availability is high and there are ALWAYS some guys that can give a 1 on 1 coaching experience.

Put it this way... If it is the first event you are doing, you are NOT going to get that much out of it in such a degree that it blows every other company's program away.

For example, may have more 1 on 1 and more coaches to rider and more laps and time on track. BUT, a typical first timer is by no means going to be able to do 45 minutes per hour of solid track riding. I also don't think that the coaching is going to be Swantz or Champions School advanced. I believe that it would be more along the lines of basic knowledge - otherwise, again... first time rider will not absorb too much info as it is enough that they are out on track and taking all that in.

Not saying the NESBA deal isn't worth it and certainly not saying it sucks. But, I think for the money to run Beaver, $125 for the instructional class with Moto Series is a better choice. 7 sessions (20 minutes each) and classroom. Think about that. You get 30 minutes, 15 minutes of rest and then back to track for NESBA. When do you get classroom? Moto Series running 20 minutes and approximately 10-15 minutes of classroom/instructional.

Again, all up to the OP. But, at more than 1/2 the savings, I'd try something else. Of course, you missed the Moto Series track day, but you could do Nelson. Or, you could come to Mid-Ohio and run their program and get a better track, same classroom style idea and time. Or, do a Grattan STT, but that's a bit further for you and may not work out when you factor travel costs.

All in all, a LOT of choices and whatever you choose, at least you are getting to the track! Good luck!!

Moto Series is always the better value. Smaller 'club,' no membership fee, more local (fewer travel expenses to cover), and thus less overhead.

But I can confidently say that the NESBA coaches are faster. That doesn't necessarily make them better coaches, but the "slow" NESBA control riders are turning 1:03's at BeaveRun.

I don't know all the Moto Series coaches, but I don't believe you can say the same about their staff.

How much that matters for riders that are new to the track is up for debate. For the first day, it probably matters very little. For the second and beyond, I think it starts to matter quite a bit - especially for intermediate riders, and even advanced riders. I have learned quite a lot in "A" just by seeing where CR's continue to gap me during their play time.

[fitz13]

I'll be there Cbosman, so if you need any help let me know.

And to others...

Comparing NESBA with Motorseries is apple to oranges, especially to NESBA's SED event that happens maybe ONCE a year. On a typical NESBA event I can go to a NESBA day for a lot cheaper than Motorseries.

NESBA does about 12 days at Beaverun, Motorseries does 2 trackdays a year there.

As for the coaching, I've enjoyed both. Motorseries is great for first timers, beyond that, being in their Open group which is about the same as NESBA's beginner group with no passing rules and with riders that can sign up right off the street in that group, to me, is CRAZY.

Obsman you're going to have a great time, you picked a GREAT day for your first trackday.

Just remember to PACE yourself, it's going to be a big day, and ride your own ride.

fitz

[APCh8r]

I'll be there Cbosman, so if you need any help let me know.

And to others...

Comparing NESBA with Motorseries is apple to oranges, especially to NESBA's SED event that happens maybe ONCE a year. On a typical NESBA event I can go to a NESBA day for a lot cheaper than Motorseries.

NESBA does about 12 days at Beaverun, Motorseries does 2 trackdays a year there.

As for the coaching, I've enjoyed both. Motorseries is great for first timers, beyond that, being in their Open group which is about the same as NESBA's beginner group with no passing rules and with riders that can sign up right off the street in that group, to me, is CRAZY.

Obsman you're going to have a great time, you picked a GREAT day for your first trackday.

Just remember to PACE yourself, it's going to be a big day, and ride your own ride.

fitz

Unless you are getting a discount, you are not getting dates with NESBA for cheaper than moto series. NESBA is $165 + membership for Beaver Run events. Either way the program they have set out for these events seems very helpful. I am sure you will enjoy your time at the track.

[blue03636]

On a typical NESBA event I can go to a NESBA day for a lot cheaper than Motorseries.

Sorry, just found that funny.

As for the coaching, I've enjoyed both. Motorseries is great for first timers, beyond that, being in their Open group which is about the same as NESBA's beginner group with no passing rules and with riders that can sign up right off the street in that group, to me, is CRAZY.

Just a fyi every org I have ridden with that allows people to sign up for what ever group also has people out riding in that group to move people up or down. If they are way off pace they will get moved down, seen it many times. It's not like nesba really helps out in the beginner group a ton anyway. From most of the people that have ridden with them the CRs just ride around lookning for people doing dumb shit which doesn't really help them. I would just rather see the beginner clas a little more structured.

As for the speed of the CRs, that really isn't an issue as you really only need them for the beginner and intermediate groups. There are usually a few faster CR's for the advance group if someone would need help. I have found that most of the really fast guys suck as a actual coach.

Nesba is a fine org and there is nothing wrong with how they do things. I haven't really heard of people that ride with nesba and say they will never go back.

[redkow97]

It's not like nesba really helps out in the beginner group a ton anyway. From most of the people that have ridden with them the CRs just ride around lookning for people doing dumb shit which doesn't really help them.

I don't think that's an accurate characterization.

NESBA takes a more hands-off approach when evaluating new riders in that they say, "show us what you got," and then they correct you.

I do think that's less conservative than STT, Moto Series, etc. that mandate the classroom time and show lines right away.

That said, the extra forced structure encourages people to register in "I" before they're really ready. And that's a fact. There are definitely people who register in "I" just to avoid the classroom time and morning drills.

I got very little guidance in NESBA's "B" group my first 2 sessions. Thereafter, I got feedback virtually every session, and it was always tailored 100% to ME, not just a generic lesson about braking, etc.

How much time is spent playing "cop" instead of actually instructing depends on the group of riders there that day. Some days are certainly better than others.

The Moto Series approach of "let's just not have any firm passing rules" definitely frees up coaches time to instruct; but I wouldn't say that makes things safer or better.

[blue03636]

I got very little guidance in NESBA's "B" group my first 2 sessions. Thereafter, I got feedback virtually every session, and it was always tailored 100% to ME, not just a generic lesson about braking, etc.

Problem is they give you the base lessons you will learn at any well know school (Code, Pridmore, ect.). That is why they give you a vague class and more than enough time to talk to a CR who gives you more specific pointers as to how you are riding.

Like I said there are many that love nesba and I'm sure they will continue to grow. I hope they do as the competition and choices among the orgs are what make this sport great. I can honestly say the majority of the people I have talked to that have ran with nesba love it.

[madcat6183]

Keith Stone, you're sooo smooth.

[Moto-Brian]

Moto Series is always the better value. Smaller 'club,' no membership fee, more local (fewer travel expenses to cover), and thus less overhead.

But I can confidently say that the NESBA coaches are faster. That doesn't necessarily make them better coaches, but the "slow" NESBA control riders are turning 1:03's at BeaveRun.

I don't know all the Moto Series coaches, but I don't believe you can say the same about their staff.

How much that matters for riders that are new to the track is up for debate. For the first day, it probably matters very little. For the second and beyond, I think it starts to matter quite a bit - especially for intermediate riders, and even advanced riders. I have learned quite a lot in "A" just by seeing where CR's continue to gap me during their play time.

Wow... Really... You honestly believe that a good coach is a faster coach? That lap times are the way to recognize quality coaching. I'll let you know a pretty famous name in the MX industry that has a school that is regarded as one of the best available. It is run by the Milsaps and the head coaching person is none other than Momma Milsaps. She's never won an AMA National, never raced in an AMA MX or SX event and has never competed in any form of national level off road or similar. Yet, she is one of the best in the industry. Under your mentality, she'd absolutely suck at coaching.

I also wouldn't be bragging as far as "fast" if they run 1:03s. That's fast and that is going great, but if they are being judged as to how great they are by their lap times only, you need to compare that to Jeff, Justin, Keith, etc. All are into the 58s and can do so at any time. I know none of the NESBA riders that have competed and done such a thing. Maybe a one off here and there or their so called "Quest" racers that show at times, but the reality is that majority of their coaches are just normal, average riders like anywhere else.

I understand you have a hard on for NESBA and promote as much as you can, but the reality is simple. Lap times don't mean shit. Good coaching most often times is found from NON racers. Also, what was discussed before is still a basis of concern. If they go out for 30 minutes, get 15 minutes rest and back out again, that is too little rest and not near enough classroom knowledge.

The customer needs to be looked at in a learning aspect not so much about how much time on track, but the quality of that track time. If I were an advanced rider and going to this thing? Sure. 45 minutes of every hour I am on track? AWESOME! But again, very unlikely most people can handle that stress.

Thus, $280 is a big hit for what you are getting.

But, if it is solely lap times you base who you want coaching you, call Moto Series and ask for Justin Neyra to help you. He went faster than any of the WERA guys did at their last event and easily would have been into 57s had we had better and new tires... But hey, if you want my suggestion, don't EVER let that be a sole basis of who teaches or instructs you. It's WAAAAAAY deeper than that.

[fitz13]

Unless you are getting a discount, you are not getting dates with NESBA for cheaper than moto series. NESBA is $165 + membership for Beaver Run events. Either way the program they have set out for these events seems very helpful. I am sure you will enjoy your time at the track.

I do get a discount, I pay as low as $120 for a day with a "free" membership and no late fees or cancelation penalties AND I don't have to pay an extra $10 per person to get through the gate like with Moto.

So the difference to ME to sign up the day before an event is $120 for NESBA vs $160 + $25 late fee + $20 to get through the gate = $205 for Moto.

Don't get me wrong I like both orgs/clubs, I'm just comparing numbers.

Being on the track is always a good thing.

I like Mid-Ohio, they give free lunch

fitz

Edit: The late fee is $25 not $20

Edited September 14, 2011 by fitz13

[Moto-Brian]

I want to also echo what Blue stated about NESBA. There are a TON of people that enjoy and will continue to go back to NESBA. That's cool. That's actually what I would expect as they are a quality company.

HOWEVER, some of the things stated here are beyond silly. To think that a structured basic understanding of what to do on a track is not a good idea vs letting you run free and evaluate as you go seems like a hurdle and less productive. I am more along the lines of what Swantz and others do where they WANT to structure a classroom of knowledge to get the people info to try and think about. Then, implement those ideas and evaluate you as you use them. The idea is that MOST people that start at track days are street riders.

Street riders have habits that are not smart to use on track. Those habits need to be adjusted and knowledge and teaching is a way to pass that along. Drills are used to take what was talked about and put them into action...

As for Fitz... Well... I think he's a fanboy and not really open to fresh ideas. But, that's my $.02...

As it stands, ANY track time is great and doing it with ANY organization is a great idea. It beats trying to get better on the street or similar.

But, the facts we are discussing is price and what you get. The comments about Moto Series are funny. I've raced the last few rounds and while I used to think it was a great starter series ( i think it is still a great place to start), if ANYONE thinks that it is not competitive and not filled with some talented riders, you might want to reconsider...

[Moto-Brian]

I do get a discount, I pay as low as $120 for a day with a "free" membership and no late fees or cancelation penalties AND I don't have to pay an extra $10 per person to get through the gate like with Moto.

So the difference to ME to sign up the day before an event is $120 for NESBA vs $160 + $20 late fee + $20 to get through the gate = $200 for Moto.

Don't get me wrong I like both orgs/clubs, I'm just comparing numbers.

Being on the track is always a good thing.

I like Mid-Ohio, they give free lunch

fitz

How are you getting that kind of discount and no membership fees?

That's not typical...

[APCh8r]

How are you getting that kind of discount and no membership fees?

That's not typical...

They have a program for Elite Membership for individuals that do more than 12 events with them in the previous year. My guess would be that is what he is a part of.

To get back to the OP, enjoy your first track day and your birthday gift to yourself. You will have a blast and get ready to join the addiction. Might want to start a seperate savings account so your wife doesn't wonder were all your money is disappearing to:D

[blue03636]

If I were an advanced rider

we all know this isn't true, I mean you only turned a min flat on your first time there.

[Moto-Brian]

They have a program for Elite Membership for individuals that do more than 12 events with them in the previous year. My guess would be that is what he is a part of.

To get back to the OP, enjoy your first track day and your birthday gift to yourself. You will have a blast and get ready to join the addiction. Might want to start a seperate savings account so your wife doesn't wonder were all your money is disappearing to:D

Then that's a silly thing as he then paid the regular prices and membership fees for those events... He gets a discount now, but actually, I think Todd would be open to a repeat customer thing and I know STT has a similar deal...

Point is that we need to take an average customer like the OP and use him for both orgs and use that as a comparison. Not, "I know a buddy" or "I rode 12 plus events and my price is cheaper, but not going to tell anyone"...

[fitz13]

As for Fitz... Well... I think he's a fanboy and not really open to fresh ideas. But, that's my $.02...

I haven’t posted on this forum much so I guess I'm not used to people talking out their ass, so you'll have to excuse me if I seem surprised by your completely inaccurate comment when I clearly stated I like all orgs, all have their ups and downs.

But you seem to have a definite prejudice against NESBA, maybe you should look deep and work on your "problem".

See you at the track BRIAN

[fitz13]

Then that's a silly thing as he then paid the regular prices and membership fees for those events... He gets a discount now, but actually, I think Todd would be open to a repeat customer thing and I know STT has a similar deal...

Point is that we need to take an average customer like the OP and use him for both orgs and use that as a comparison. Not, "I know a buddy" or "I rode 12 plus events and my price is cheaper, but not going to tell anyone"...

Wrong again, anyone can get a discount, STT fanboy.

[madcat6183]

we all know this isn't true, I mean you only turned a min flat on your first time there.

Someday I will run a minute flat, somewhere. Well maybe in my dreams. And having Neyra pass me at the max twilight the other weekend in turn 1 was awesome, I felt like a real racer, he went around me about 50mph faster, but it was still a rush, I don't even care.

Anyways, thank you all for this thread, it is heating up and about to get great. I needed this today at work.