I need help with the charging system.

[Jcarlson]

I have an 81 Suzuki GS850G (see pic below) that is having electrical problems. I fully charge the battery, fires right up, ride for 20-30 min or so and shut it down. Won't restart. Not enough juice in the battery to crank it hard enough and I eventually drain the battery to where it won't even crank - and it doesn't take long to drain it. Headlight dims too when this happens. That tells me the battery is not recharging while driving.

History - I bought the bike three years ago. Only put about 2500 miles on it since I bought it. First season spent trying to get it running (carbs, boots, new YUASA battery, etc). I replaced the stator and R/R with aftermarket brands. Turns out it only needed the carbs synch'd. Bike ran perfect remainder of that season and all last summer until October. That's when I started having this issue. I bought a new gel battery thinking maybe the YUASA was on it's way out. Didn't solve a thing.

I don't know dick about electricity except that it really sucks when it runs down my arm. No one has really looked into it but me but I've had guys tell me it's a bad ground. The only ground I've messed with is the black w/white wire on the rear turn signals. I replaced the OEM rear turns with some aftermarket turns. The male end of the connector was not the same diameter as the OEM, but with a little crimping they worked just fine. I finally got around to putting the OEM turns back on today thinking that might have been the bad ground. NOPE!! Couldn't even get it started with a fully charged battery. Drained that battery faster than peeing after a six pack.

Stupid me didn't check the voltage when fully charged, but afterwards it was 11.86 - not enough. I can't do the load check on the stator R/R as stated in Clymers cuz it won't start and I don't have the six hands required for it. LOL But, they're new(er) so I don't think that's my problem.

I don't know what else to do. Where do I go from here? Does anyone want to come over next week and have a look for me? You gotta come to Westerville cuz obviously I can't ride it anywhere.

[Jcarlson]

UPDATE - I charged the battery again. 13.06 volts this time with engine off. It had been sitting most of this year so I flooded the carbs for a sec and it fired right up this time. Once it warmed up I rode it around for about 15 minutes. Never got past 4th gear or above 35 mph. Came home, shut it off, would not start. 11.86 volts this time.

Let it sit about 15 minutes and checked the volts - 12.03v. Turned the key and it fired right up. Ran it about 1 minute and shut it down. Would not restart. 11.83v this time.

I know batteries can recharge themselves after a little while and I'm guessing this is what happened here. But why am I not recharging while riding?

I'm charging my gel battery now and will swap it out tomorrow and see what happens.

[mello dude]

Basics -

1. First charge up the battery. Then go to Autozone and get it load tested. Sounding like its crap. Before going further and doing the rest of the tests, you need a rock solid battery.

2. You need a voltmeter - Crank it up. Check DC volts at idle,and 5000 rpm, across the battery terminals. Should be 13s at idle and 14s at 5000 rpm

3. Check Stator

------a. pull the connector apart that goes to the R/R, stator side. Usually the wires are yellow. Check resistance pin to pin. A to B, B to C, C to A -- should be less than 1.0 Ohms

-------b. Check each pin: A to ground, B to ground, C to ground for continuity. Should be infinity. NO continuity.

-------c. Check stator output. AC volts. Start bike. Pin A to B, B to C, C to A. Should 15ish at idle and rise into the 60s plus on each test.

If you do these tests, you can get a data point on figuring out what parts are junk.

GL

Edited September 19, 2011 by mello dude

[imprez55]

You said you replaced both the stator and R/R with aftermarket ones. My guess would be thats where to start (if you don't want to check them with a voltmeter, it didn't seem like you wanted to). Did you check the voltage at the battery while running? What kind of stator did you get and were there directions? Race ones are not meant for the street because they are lighter and less coils, and therefore need a higher RPM to get to the same volts/amps and therefore charge which you might not have been hitting if just crusing around on the street.

[dorifto240]

Make sure to check for shorts and/or warm lines as well. Also, clean your ground connection(s).

If that all fails, there's a new shop in Grandview that might be worth checking out.

[Tpoppa]

http://www.electrosport.com/media/pdf/fault-finding-diagram.pdf

[Jcarlson]

I do have a voltmeter. I don't have all the hands needed to do these tests by myself (one for throttle, one for red lead, one for black lead). I didn't check the volts while bike was running, but I will next time.

I don't remember the brand names. It's whatever Iron Pony sells.

I like the flow chart Tpoppa provided. I think I'll print that out and follow it and see where it leads me. One of my big impediments with this is I don't have any background in electrical circuits. Something could say 0.2 ohms and it means nothing to me. My as well be written in Chinese - LOL.

I'll keep you all posted and will keep checking back for more updates.

I go oncall for my job next week (I'm a programmer) which means I'm pretty much grounded to my house. I'll have plenty of time to hunt this down.

[imprez55]

If you put the voltmeter leads on the battery in such a way you can hold them in one hand its easy to rev the throttle with the other. If the bike is running, you do not need to rev the throttle to read like 13-14v, but once you hit 5000-5500rpm it will jump up. You also do not need to read multiple hands (or the bike running for that matter) for continuity testing on the stator lead.

http://www.electrosport.com/media/pd...ng-diagram.pdf

I didn't read it, but that looks pretty helpful. I would say though, that 90% of electrical problems consist of RR/stator and starter relay problems. Luckily they are the easiest to check and fix

[serpentracer]

you're throwing parts at it and jumping all over the place with thoughts.

STOP!

the very first thing you need to do is test the charging voltage with your multimeter.

[Jcarlson]

Well guys if the pooch wasn't screwed before it certainly is now. None of this matters at this point but I'll say it anyway. I put the gel battery in. 12.57v engine off. It fired right up. 12.17v @ 1k rpm, 13.12v @2500 rpm, 12.77 @ 5k rpm (that's a little low, huh?). Rode it for 15 min shut it down. 12.66v engine off. Started it again, idle for a few minutes, shut it down. Won't restart. 12.37v.

Went to do RR no load test as per Clymers and I pulled the red wire right out of the connector pin where it attaches to the harness. Now the pooch is screwed. A new RR is in my future at this point. Gotta have this before I can do anything else. This was probably my problem all along anyway.

Thanks guys for all your help.

Anyone interested in buying it? It comes fully dressed like in the photo album in the link. 19K miles. When it runs it runs good. Fast, lot's of torque. I've even got the tool tray, tool kit, and owners manual. Anyone that's into older bikes like this knows how elusive those items are. Asking $1,800 neg.

Thanks again.

Jim

[dorifto240]

Check out Oregon Cycle Parts for a new Reg/Rec. Why sell the bike for the cost of a hundred dollar part?

[imprez55]

Why sell the bike for the cost of a hundred dollar part?

This, plus didn't you say you had the OEM stator and R/R still because you misdiagnosed the problem before?

[mello dude]

Well guys if the pooch wasn't screwed before it certainly is now. None of this matters at this point but I'll say it anyway. I put the gel battery in. 12.57v engine off. It fired right up. 12.17v @ 1k rpm, 13.12v @2500 rpm, 12.77 @ 5k rpm (that's a little low, huh?). Rode it for 15 min shut it down. 12.66v engine off. Started it again, idle for a few minutes, shut it down. Won't restart. 12.37v.

Went to do RR no load test as per Clymers and I pulled the red wire right out of the connector pin where it attaches to the harness. Now the pooch is screwed. A new RR is in my future at this point. Gotta have this before I can do anything else. This was probably my problem all along anyway.

Thanks guys for all your help.

Anyone interested in buying it? It comes fully dressed like in the photo album in the link. 19K miles. When it runs it runs good. Fast, lot's of torque. I've even got the tool tray, tool kit, and owners manual. Anyone that's into older bikes like this knows how elusive those items are. Asking $1,800 neg.

Thanks again.

Jim

Dude - test your stator too, its not that hard. I listed the steps. Its essentially a quicky summary of the electrosport chart. You might be replacing a R/R for nothing.

Electric charging systems are goofy on bikes, but they're not that hard to fix.

GL

Edited September 18, 2011 by mello dude

[Jcarlson]

I did test the stator - 12.77v at 5k rpm. Clymer says that's too low, s/b 14-15.5, but it's not necessarily a bad stator. I screwed up the wires from the RR so I have to buy a new one now no matter what. I pulled the red wire right out the male end of the connector. The male end is still in the female end and the wire is just hanging.

I'm not selling the bike because of this issue. I was going to sell it anyway but couldn't until I got the electrical problem figured out. I have two bikes - this one and an 06 Kaw Concours. I haven't ridden this one all year because of this. I had my fun with it, it was a labor of love, and I can't ride two at once so I figured it's time to let it go. I won two trophies with it (not that it was judged very hard) but people liked it so I won. Cool, huh? The paint job is killer, especially in the sun, and if you're any kind of Buckeye fan you'll appreciate it.

No, I don't have the OEM parts. I pitched them.

[imprez55]

I did test the stator - 12.77v at 5k rpm. Clymer says that's too low, s/b 14-15.5, but it's not necessarily a bad stator. I screwed up the wires from the RR so I have to buy a new one now no matter what. I pulled the red wire right out the male end of the connector. The male end is still in the female end and the wire is just hanging.

If you decide to keep it, the connector can be fixed and you did not check the stator with that measurement. You checked the end of the charging circuit, mostly the RR (assuming you did all measurements at the battery). The stator will be AC voltage btw.

[mello dude]

If you decide to keep it, the connector can be fixed and you did not check the stator with that measurement. You checked the end of the charging circuit, mostly the RR (assuming you did all measurements at the battery). The stator will be AC voltage btw.

+1 ..... Reread post #3..

Edited September 19, 2011 by mello dude

[Jcarlson]

Ok, I'm with ya. That's where I was going the other day when I pulled the wire from the connector. I was following the Clymer's manual and it follows a different procedure, sort of. I'll get back on this later in the week. I'll let you know what I find.

I thought being oncall for my job would keep me grounded at home with plenty of time to spare but the damn pager keeps going off. Not getting any free time. ARRGGHH!!

Jim