Nuts&Volts Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 Hello,As mentioned in my intro thread I have 2003 R6 that I am converting to electric. This is the second electric bike I've done. The first was 1989 600 Katana from which most of the powertrain parts are coming. I purchased the R6 in Sept, rode it all fall to get the feel for a gas bike and performance of the original R6 and have torn it down this winter. My main reason for first doing a conversion is because I cared about the environment and about better utilizing our energy resources. I wanted to do a car, but a motorcycle ends up being cheaper and simpler to do. Ever since I have been addicted to electric motorcycles. I continue working with these because I believe it is/will be a better solution in terms of performance, energy efficiency, cost of ownership, and technologically. I plan to work in the 2-wheeled electric industry (studying mechanical engineering now). If people are interested we can argue out the reasons for and against in another thread. I like to argue I plan to eventually have about 80-100HP available but will only have 40HP for this riding season and a top speed of about 70-75mph. My range will vary, but my goal is 100 miles at 55mph cruise. Final weight will be between 360 and 380lbs ready to ride. I will detail more specs later on. The main steps includetear down (complete)CAD design/layout (mostly complete)Motor Install (mount created)Battery Install (3/4 through the cutting)Misc Electronics mountingWiring - high and low voltageBodyworkThroughout this thread I will try to highlight the various components, principles, and considerations that are used/needed when building an electric machine. Feel free to ask any questions you have and I will do my best to answer them along with update this thread. Here are a few pictures of what I have so farBare frame - weighs about 140lbsGeneral layout (orientation has been changed a little). Leaves entire tank and tail section to be used for storage.PS - R6 engine parts and some body work are for sale. Will post soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuts&Volts Posted February 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 Reserved for future information Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 I applaud your efforts and wish you luck, but your goals are certainly lofty. Just based on the specs of other electric bikes out there, you're shooting to have 80% of their power with about 60% of their weight. Again, I wish you all the luck in the world and hope I can contribute more than just questions to your build, but i think the fact that zero and other electric bike manufacturers arent achieving the results you're after with multiple engineers and boatloads more financial resources is telling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 I applaud your efforts and wish you luck, but your goals are certainly lofty. Just based on the specs of other electric bikes out there, you're shooting to have 80% of their power with about 60% of their weight. Again, I wish you all the luck in the world and hope I can contribute more than just questions to your build, but i think the fact that zero and other electric bike manufacturers arent achieving the results you're after with multiple engineers and boatloads more financial resources is telling.I think it is an awesome idea also. But, the reality is that the batteries they are using right now are over $6k plus in bikes like the Zero and our KTM. They get 40 minutes of use and hours to charge.The bigger street models have even more expensive batteries and more time to run. But, as stated, I too applaud your efforts. Keep us informed!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 Gotta power a bike with iPad batteries or something. They seem to last forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FZRMatt Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 Sometimes it takes a mind outside the industry to come up with innovative ideas. Good luck with the build and keep us updated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Sometimes it takes a mind outside the industry to come up with innovative ideas. Good luck with the build and keep us updated.true enough; and the industry can't really "borrow" a 2003 R6 frame as a starting point either.There are definitely going to be advantages and draw-backs to starting with a pre-fabricated gasoline powered bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuts&Volts Posted February 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) I applaud your efforts and wish you luck, but your goals are certainly lofty. Just based on the specs of other electric bikes out there, you're shooting to have 80% of their power with about 60% of their weight. Again, I wish you all the luck in the world and hope I can contribute more than just questions to your build, but i think the fact that zero and other electric bike manufacturers arent achieving the results you're after with multiple engineers and boatloads more financial resources is telling.You are pretty much correct, these are very high numbers. You can beat thou that I have done my research The new Zero's (http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-s/ ) is 341 lbs and can do an EPA 114miles (real world who knows). I have already personally gone 100miles on a charge on my full fairing, 430lb Katana. This was commuting back and forth from campus and Hilliard in 4 times on 25-50mph roads. I used 96% of my battery and will be adding 15% more cells to the R6. The R6 roller with everything but ICE bits weighs ~170lbs, 155lbs in batteries, 40lbs of motor and controller, and 10 lbs of electronics puts me at 375lbs. With an aerodynamic body I should be very close to that 100miles@55mph.The 80-100HP motor/controller I plan for is being developed and probably won't be available for another year. It's just my goal to beat the original R6 performance. I dyno'd mine with 99.4HP at the wheel and ~400lb wet, we'll see! The other points mentioned about battery cost is very true. I was lucky to source these cells used from a fellow El Moto friend, but they aren't readily available. I am fairly certain I have the same cells which are in the new Zero's I linked above. The R6 complete will be about $9-11k not including tools and such. Thanks for the encouragement guys Edited February 7, 2012 by Nuts&Volts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuts&Volts Posted February 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 I think it is an awesome idea also. But, the reality is that the batteries they are using right now are over $6k plus in bikes like the Zero and our KTM. They get 40 minutes of use and hours to charge.The bigger street models have even more expensive batteries and more time to run. But, as stated, I too applaud your efforts. Keep us informed!!Yea my batteries/mount will be about $6K, but these are quality used cells. Probably a similar price to new cells in bulk orders. Additionally I have a charge time of about 4-5 hours right now from 0 to 100%. Batteries would handle an hour charge if I had the charger to do it. I've got a 220V 50A outlet in the garage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuts&Volts Posted February 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Here are a screen shots of the CAD model I have. With and without the original engine and some other angles. This is not 100% done.Wheels and forks are stolen from an SV650 CAD model. Model has 5in of ground clearance, 55in wheel base and about 52deg of maximum lean. Top line on side view is roughly where the seat is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mello dude Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Hey N&V cool project you got going. A tip for you for some ideas/help, see if you can hook up with a guy that goes by "frodus" in motorcycle threads. He has done several conversions and worked with electric bike racing at the Isle of Mann. I have lost track of him, but he eats and sleeps electric vehicles. Here's a start from VFRworld...http://vfrworld.com/forums/mechanics-garage/13300-1986-vfr700f-electric-conversion.htmlI know there are other updated threads, but I cant find them.Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuts&Volts Posted February 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Hey N&V cool project you got going. A tip for you for some ideas/help, see if you can hook up with a guy that goes by "frodus" in motorcycle threads. He has done several conversions and worked with electric bike racing at the Isle of Mann. I have lost track of him, but he eats and sleeps electric vehicles. Here's a start from VFRworld...http://vfrworld.com/forums/mechanics-garage/13300-1986-vfr700f-electric-conversion.htmlI know there are other updated threads, but I cant find them.Good luckThanks and I'm actually good friends with mr frodus. Met him two years ago at VIR. He's a great guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mello dude Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Thanks and I'm actually good friends with mr frodus. Met him two years ago at VIR. He's a great guy.Small world - pretty cool. What's he up to? Tell him I said "hi" next time you talk to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Hunter Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Good luck! I have a curiosity to see this bike on the track some day, when it is ready. Could be fun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuts&Volts Posted February 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Small world - pretty cool. What's he up to? Tell him I said "hi" next time you talk to him.Yep, I'll be sure to tell him. He just started up a business as a supplier of some AC Electric motors along with his day job. He's also on about revision 6 of his electric VFR haha. He has been working on upgrading it for about 3 years now.He spends a lot of time on http://elmoto.net as do I. A lot of good builds on there.Good luck! I have a curiosity to see this bike on the track some day, when it is ready. Could be fun?Someday, at least at a track day. With the current motor it wouldn't be too exciting topping out at ~75mph. Once it gets >60HP or a two speed tranny it should be a blast. Notice roughly 70% of the weight is below the top of wheels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revelstoker Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) Best of luck and I hope you can pull it off.I would love one of these, http://motoczysz.com/motorcycles/e1pc_2010 Edited February 8, 2012 by Revelstoker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblosser Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 Best of luck to you, Kyle!If your student license for Solid runs out, give me a shout... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 Notice roughly 70% of the weight is below the top of wheels It looks like you've thought this through more than I initially gave you credit for. Nice job. Regarding the COG though, I wouldn't necessarily shoot for such a bias that low, if you can avoid it. Low COG makes a heavy bike easy to pick up if it's laying on its side, but it can make turn-in feel really weird too. Your cad drawings also look as though the battery cells will result in a serious weigh bias toward the front. That will require some suspension tweaking up front, but could also result in a bike that's prone to stoppie rather than stop. Rome wasn't built in a day, just things to consider. If you can spread out the battery cells, that would really help you tune handling gremlins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuts&Volts Posted February 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) It looks like you've thought this through more than I initially gave you credit for. Nice job. Regarding the COG though, I wouldn't necessarily shoot for such a bias that low, if you can avoid it. Low COG makes a heavy bike easy to pick up if it's laying on its side, but it can make turn-in feel really weird too. Your cad drawings also look as though the battery cells will result in a serious weigh bias toward the front. That will require some suspension tweaking up front, but could also result in a bike that's prone to stoppie rather than stop. Rome wasn't built in a day, just things to consider. If you can spread out the battery cells, that would really help you tune handling gremlins.Thanks for the insight. My lack of riding experience means I don't have quite the understanding of this. I have always thought that lower weight was better and never knew if there was a tipping point where this may not be true. I may try to reduce the width of the lower packs and move some batteries up higher. This becomes a little tricky because of the electrical connections I need between the cells. It may be worth it to move things, or it may be worth a try as is and cut and reweld the aluminum later...got some thinking to do. I think the combination of low and forward wouldn't increase the the chances of a stoppie, thou. Forward and high would increase the chances of a stoppie due to the moments occuring (as rear and high increase the chances of a wheelie. I do wonder how the turn in will be effected, a lot more body would most likely be needed. This may not effect me as I don't have a preformed feel for turn in due to lack of experience. Anyone else have any insight about effects of Center of gravity?? Edited February 10, 2012 by Nuts&Volts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuts&Volts Posted February 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 Best of luck and I hope you can pull it off.I would love one of these, http://motoczysz.com/motorcycles/e1pc_2010Oh yes indeedy I'm planning on going out to Laguna Seca for the the Moto GP and FIM ePower series in July. Motoczysz should be there, hopefully I'll meet the man behind the machineBest of luck to you, Kyle!If your student license for Solid runs out, give me a shout...Still got another year and a half of school left so won't need it anytime soon. Thanks thou and I'll keep this in mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbarron77 Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 http://www.brammo.com/home/saw this and thought I'd add my $0.02. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuts&Volts Posted February 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 http://www.brammo.com/home/saw this and thought I'd add my $0.02.Yea they are actually building a whole line of electrics with a 6 speed transmission. It should be very interesting to see how it performs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mello dude Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 That Brammo is pretty cool - I would like to ride it for grins. Dunno if I would buy one though. As far as electric vehicles go, I would be more interested in a full bodied 3 wheel style to go to work in. -Go to work, come home, plug in at nite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuts&Volts Posted February 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 That Brammo is pretty cool - I would like to ride it for grins. Dunno if I would buy one though. As far as electric vehicles go, I would be more interested in a full bodied 3 wheel style to go to work in. -Go to work, come home, plug in at nite.Whenever my R6 is up an running I would be more than happy to let people take it for a spin. The experience so much different than anything you've ever ridden, I guarantee it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentracer Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) make it run on water then you'll be a god. btw I might be interested in some of your spare parts.the lack of engine sound makes me gigglehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqqpHGExEAs Edited February 9, 2012 by serpentracer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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