kawi kid Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 "Think about it, if the kid was so shady? would Zimmerman really have got the best of him? Shady kids in my neighborhood carry concealed weapons with no license! That kid had no intention of causing trouble and lost his life. If people leave the responsibility of policing to the tax paid officers that are trained to handle these situations, then nothing like this ever happens. But then again in many cases they have killed innocent as well. Without knowing all the facts, I know enough to say Zimmerman is not a hero and in fact stupid for chasing down a guy(kid actually) who you have no idea of what they are capable of nor what kind of weapon they have. (again noting I didnt use race in any of my logic) The dispatcher advised Zimmerman not to chase Martin, therefore he should be made accountable for his actions!"Great points!Not great points! Where did he chase him to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 do you wear a helmet in your car? on an airplane? at your local restaurant? wear your helmet to bed, and in the shower?I shower with my glock-on-a-rope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted May 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Z had many opportunities to change the outcome of this situation. M however, did not.No opportunity? Seriosuly? M had the opportunity to NOT punch Z in the nose, pin him down "MMA style" and punch him until he had two black eyes and gashes in the back of his head from his head hitting the sidewalk... A missed opportunity there, don't you agree?How about responding verbally, like "I'm visiting family", "none of your business" etc? M poorly handled the situation in which he was not trained properly to handle such a situation, therefore he should have let the police do their job.Your mistake is the most sense you've made so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted May 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 The dispatcher advised Zimmerman not to chase Martin, therefore he should be made accountable for his actions!Murder 2, for following someone, which is not illegal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted May 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 there are several new tazers on the market, research them yourself.One shot deals. No good. Shotgun taser is the only multi-shot I'm aware of. I have a taser myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 there are several new tazers on the market, research them yourself.You brought it up. Back up your claims if you can.The ones i am aware of: What's the capacity on them? (Less than standard duty weapon) What's effective range. (Less than duty weapon) Some people aren't as incapacitated by tazers. A bullet is more effective for life threatening situations. Concealment (different than cover) is effective against tazers, not against a duty weapon. Convince me that they are better to neutralize a deadly threat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Convince me that they are better to neutralize a deadly threat.i guess there isn't much more "neutral" than dead is there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 You brought it up. Back up your claims if you can.The ones i am aware of: What's the capacity on them? (Less than standard duty weapon) What's effective range. (Less than duty weapon) Some people aren't as incapacitated by tazers. A bullet is more effective for life threatening situations. Concealment (different than cover) is effective against tazers, not against a duty weapon. Convince me that they are better to neutralize a deadly threat.Shut up. Lets let a cop weigh in on this.... ARE THERE ANY COPS OUT THERE?!?" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 i guess there isn't much more "neutral" than dead is there?I like how straight to the extreme lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cclay Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Murder 2, for following someone, which is not illegal?Hey i'm a logical person, and as I'v stated before, unless you were there you really dont know what happened beyond what someone else tells you!And from the report I read this morning and release may 18th, from cnn... I made some comments on what that report reads, and that report only. Murder 2 is not up to me and all that I said is he needs to be made accountable for his actions. I'm not a judge or prosecutor therefore I don't know exactly what should be done. But as far as the facts go... A kid lost his life and he had less control over the situation then Zimmerman did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 i guess there isn't much more "neutral" than dead is there?Neutralize does not mean dead. It means no longer a deadly threat. Can you or can you not give any valid poinwith either links or personal experience? You said they are better but haven't explained how or why. Back up your claims. Ill admit it if they are better. All I'm asking for is what you base your claim on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted May 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Hey i'm a logical person, and as I'v stated before, unless you were there you really dont know what happened beyond what someone else tells you!And from the report I read this morning and release may 18th, from cnn... I made some comments on what that report reads, and that report only. Murder 2 is not up to me and all that I said is he needs to be made accountable for his actions. I'm not a judge or prosecutor therefore I don't know exactly what should be done. But as far as the facts go... A kid lost his life and he had less control over the situation then Zimmerman did.I disagree with "less control". The evidence so far points to M violently overreacting to Z trying to find out what M was doing in a gated community where he didn't live and wasn't recognized.We're getting dangerously close to saying; "If you see something suspicious, look away". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted May 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Neutralize does not mean dead. It means no longer a deadly threat. Can you or can you not give any valid poinwith either links or personal experience? You said they are better but haven't explained how or why. Back up your claims. Ill admit it if they are better. All I'm asking for is what you base your claim on.How quick can you change a taser cartridge?Only tried it with unfired cartridges, so the buttons on the side are difficult to press with the wires still bunched up. Still, about 5 seconds is my record. That actually sucks. If you miss you'd better be ready to drive-stun or you're now defenseless while you transition to another weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Neutralize does not mean dead. It means no longer a deadly threat. and how does a bullet achieve that? by mortally wounding the would-be attacker... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cclay Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 No opportunity? Seriosuly? M had the opportunity to NOT punch Z in the nose, pin him down "MMA style" and punch him until he had two black eyes and gashes in the back of his head from his head hitting the sidewalk... A missed opportunity there, don't you agree?How about responding verbally, like "I'm visiting family", "none of your business" etc? Your mistake is the most sense you've made so far.We can sit here and dissect a 45 second incident(i'm guessing don't know for sure how long it happened), but at the end of the day, I don't know anymore then you know of the intangibles that will ultimately resolve this matter. If it was that cut and dry then there would be no controversy. To go to the level of saying Trayvon MMA style pinned the guy tells me you are way too emotionally invested in the matter to respond with rational. All the evidence has yet to be confirmed and my comments are only on what has been confirmed. Therefore I'll leave the convo be for you to figure out until the case is resolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gixxus Christ! Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 and how does a bullet achieve that? by mortally wounding the would-be attacker...Not necessarily. Threats can be neutralized by the mere shock of being shot, by extreme pain, by disabling a limb, or partial hydraulic decompression (blood loss). A bullet can duo all these things without killing, provided medical attention is found soon. , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 We can sit here and dissect a 45 second incident(i'm guessing don't know for sure how long it happened), but at the end of the day, I don't know anymore then you know of the intangibles that will ultimately resolve this matter. If it was that cut and dry then there would be no controversy. To go to the level of saying Trayvon MMA style pinned the guy tells me you are way too emotionally invested in the matter to respond with rational. All the evidence has yet to be confirmed and my comments are only on what has been confirmed. Therefore I'll leave the convo be for you to figure out until the case is resolved.The 911 call was over 2 min long. Have you read it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 How quick can you change a taser cartridge?Only tried it with unfired cartridges, so the buttons on the side are difficult to press with the wires still bunched up. Still, about 5 seconds is my record. That actually sucks. If you miss you'd better be ready to drive-stun or you're now defenseless while you transition to another weapon.Not all that quickly. They aren't exactly quick reload friendly.and how does a bullet achieve that? by mortally wounding the would-be attacker...Cause no one has EVER gotten shot and survived. Yes a gun will kill. No an officer doesn't shoot to kill. If one round strikes the arm or other non vital area, and the suspect drops his gun, the officer doesn't plan on shooting again. Although adrenaline and timing can okay a part. And just skip over telling me how the tazer is more effective at neutralizing (not dispatching) a deadly threat. I'm sure you really have no idea or you would have brought it up by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Not necessarily. Threats can be neutralized by the mere shock of being shot, by extreme pain, by disabling a limb, or partial hydraulic decompression (blood loss). A bullet can duo all these things without killing, provided medical attention is found soon. ,+1 but saying killling to neutralize is way more dramatic and fits better with that side of the argument Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 And just skip over telling me how the tazer is more effective at neutralizing (not dispatching) a deadly threat. I'm sure you really have no idea or you would have brought it up by now.it INSTANTLY interrupts communication between the nerves and muscles...bullets have to rely on pain, destruction of ligament or muscle tissue, or bllod loss and fainting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 +1 but saying killling to neutralize is way more dramatic and fits better with that side of the argumentBecause guns only kill. Typical fearing of what isn't understood. Spoons are used for food. People get fat from food. Therefore spoons have to make people fat. Same logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 it INSTANTLY interrupts communication between the nerves and muscles...bullets have to rely on pain, destruction of ligament or muscle tissue, or bllod loss and faintingYes they usually do, usually. Now explain what happens when they are behind concealment, shooting at the officer and the officer has a tazer with limited reload capabilities, and limited range. Who has the upper hand in that scenario? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cclay Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 The 911 call was over 2 min long. Have you read it?need i state the obvious? come on guys really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Not to mentioned clothing, especially winter clothing can prevent a tazer from working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cclay Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 The 911 call was over 2 min long. Have you read it?the 911 call has no relevance on specifically how long it was from when Zimmerman approached Martin and Martin got shot... I think its time for me to gracefully bow out of the thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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