magley64 Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) So true! give me give me give me!Usually those most vocal about "socialism" are those least willing to give up social security."cuz I earned that money" no you didn't, the money you earned was stolen by the generation before you. Ie the first recipients didn't pay a dime into the system...Every generation continues to rob from the next. Edited May 8, 2012 by magley64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crb Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Usually those most vocal about "socialism" are those least willing to give up social security."cuz I earned that money" no you didn't, the money you earned was stolen by the generation before you. Ie the first recipients didn't pay a dime into the system...If I could opt out today, they can keep everything I have paid in so far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CleaveTheGreat Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 This is the fundamental difference between liberals and conservatives. The liberal approach to an income gap is to tax those at the top and subsidize those at the bottom and if the gap grows, do it again. Repeat as often as necessary.The conservative approach recognizes that although we may have once been the only place suitable for manufacturing and didnt have to compete with other countries for business, times have changed. Other countries have seen that capitalism works and the less restrained it is by socialistic taxes and regulation the better it works. These countries have decided to compete with us. They lowered their corporate tax rates, leaving ours as the highest in the world. They have streamlined their regulation into easy to understand pamphlet size documents. They changed their regulating agencies from something that punishes with a stick to ones that help business comply with a carrot. Some even subsidize wages during startup. Conservatives believe that just like you shop for the cheapest place to buy groceries, businessmen shop for the cheapest, friendliest country to manufacture in and if we want jobs, we have to change what we are doing. They believe that the income gap has grown because the wealthy can always invest anywhere in the world and make money but when our taxes and regulation send business overseas, those jobs and opportunity to advance go over seas also. We are left with no jobs and no tax payers.On a side note. We once had huge labor unions but since the rest of the world has been competing for manufacturing, the unions have been supporting the democrats who in turn insist on keeping high taxes in place, regulation that requires several law firms to figure out and their own high wage and benefit packages. Well the manufacturing is gone and the labor unions (in the private sector) are a shell of what they used to be. Yet they still to this day insist on supporting the democrats who have nearly killed them off.Is it better to hold out till the rest of the world decides to stop competing or is it better to lower our corporate tax rate, streamline our regulation, shift our agencies from the stick to the carrot approach and accept the fact that a slightly lower paying job is better than no job at all?Once you have more jobs than workers, workers value goes up. right now we have way more workers than jobs so people are cheap.......... think about it....I agree that corporate taxes and regulation are out of control and are driving businesses to invest overseas where the costs of operation are less. I also agree that a lower paying job is better than no job but if you allow businesses to create an abundance of low paying, unskilled jobs all you are going to end up with is a permanent, socio-economically disadvantaged underclass. One of the problems is that rising operating costs (due to regulation and taxes - not wage increases) has caused the cost of products and cost of living in general in this country to increase steadily over time. Producing a ton of low wage jobs will not solve any long term problems and will likely create more problems (more crime, larger ghettos, etc). Maybe we should cut corporate taxes and regulatory burdens and require that some of those savings be funneled into an increase in wages which would have wide ranging benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Class warfare #!!!!111one11!You can't ask rich people to be anything but greedy or you're just starting class warfare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CleaveTheGreat Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Class warfare #!!!!111one11!You can't ask rich people to be anything but greedy or you're just starting class warfareYou can thank the media for that. I don't even really think we need to raise taxes on the rich. Just cut corporate taxes and regulation costs and as a condition of these cuts, some of the savings must be funneled into higher wages. Doubt that this will ever happen due to political reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 i'm so disappointed.............. I had such high hopes for you.... Loli'm not sure what you've been reading but my understanding of this movement is purely socialist. They believe they can use the disguise of anarchist's to bring down capitalism to the point that obama will have to nationalize most business. In effect, putting all those mean, nasty, evil job creators out of business and giving the government total control over the economy so we can all finally live in their socialist utopia where productivity is punished and non-productivity is rewarded. But hey..... At least we are all equals right?........... Well except for the liberals who get to run things and oppress or kill anyone who wants to change things or keep what they earn. The ones in charge usually live pretty good.^^^ this ^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheech Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 You can thank the media for that. I don't even really think we need to raise taxes on the rich. Just cut corporate taxes and regulation costs and as a condition of these cuts, some of the savings must be funneled into higher wages. Doubt that this will ever happen due to political reasons.But honestly, how would you possibly legislate something like that? As government, you can pass a law saying that minimum wage workers get a dollar more a hour, but you can't pass a law that says that just because we gave you a break on your corporate taxes, that means that you need to increase your overall payroll by X%.When you've got Sen. Tom Coburn coming on the Daily Show and saying we might need to raise some taxes, we REALLY need to raise taxes. I'd like to start with the people who haven't been paying their fair share, and I'd like to do it by 4%, not the ZOMG 90% that the slippery-slopers immediately gravitate towards. Take that, plus spending cuts (primarily in defense, I think 60 Minutes showed there are plenty of places to cut there), and we have enough money to start whittling down the deficit and start rebuilding some stuff that's been neglected for decades. You know, jobs and shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crb Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Class warfare #!!!!111one11!You can't ask rich people to be anything but greedy or you're just starting class warfareCan we ask the "poor" to pay something in taxes? or are the "evil" rich people the only ones we can tax?FAIR TAX or FLAT TAX NOW!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CleaveTheGreat Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 But honestly, how would you possibly legislate something like that? As government, you can pass a law saying that minimum wage workers get a dollar more a hour, but you can't pass a law that says that just because we gave you a break on your corporate taxes, that means that you need to increase your overall payroll by X%.When you've got Sen. Tom Coburn coming on the Daily Show and saying we might need to raise some taxes, we REALLY need to raise taxes. I'd like to start with the people who haven't been paying their fair share, and I'd like to do it by 4%, not the ZOMG 90% that the slippery-slopers immediately gravitate towards. Take that, plus spending cuts (primarily in defense, I think 60 Minutes showed there are plenty of places to cut there), and we have enough money to start whittling down the deficit and start rebuilding some stuff that's been neglected for decades. You know, jobs and shit.Like I said, I don't see it actually happeneing. I guess I should have said it won't happen for political or legislative reasons. Corporate lobbyists would never agree to something like that and I don't see congress even suggesting something like this. I suppose that the greed that is intrinsically built into the profit motive of running a business is what causes the low wage problem. If you cut corporate taxes without some type of requirement that part of the money be used to raise wages, then wages will remain flat and those savings will be distributed to those at the top, not the everyday worker. I don't really know what the solution is, but I know that it isn't regulating and taxing the shit out of businesses and forcing them to outsource to survive and it isn't taxing the rich more and then redistributing their wealth to those with less. The ideas coming out of Washington from both sides are flawed and unsustainable. We need wide ranging changes that are not being suggested by either side. Ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Can we ask the "poor" to pay something in taxes? or are the "evil" rich people the only ones we can tax?FAIR TAX or FLAT TAX NOW!!!Yeah, if you're okay with families not being able to afford food this week cause they have to pay higher taxes on the money they work for...Meanwhile the millionaires and billionaires sit on their yachts burning cigars bought with interest earned on money they inherited from their parents..I think you're all backwards, we cut taxes on wages earned through work, and raise taxes on earned interest..."Money you work for, you keep, money you get for nothing, gets taxed" just my opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crb Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 So the welfare class can pay nothing only suck the life out of us rich people? I don't consider myself rich but apparently the libs do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod38um Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 I think you're all backwards, we cut taxes on wages earned through work, and raise taxes on earned interest..."Money you work for, you keep, money you get for nothing, gets taxed" just my opinion.That always sounds good and honestly, it gets lots of people elected. But either way the consumer pays either through taxes or in your way through increased product costs. the main difference is in your way, all the jobs are overseas. In the republican way (if you can stop liberal interference) the jobs are here so you can afford to pay something. Remember,If you have more available workers than you have jobs, workers are cheap, there are people standing in line to take you place if you dont like your wages. But when there are more jobs than available workers, Good workers are paid a premium to keep them around because the employer cant find someone to replace you.If we ever want jobs back.... a middle class back.... we have to be viewed as business friendly on all fronts. taxes, regulation and workers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gixxus Christ! Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 You people must not know that America still leads the world in manufacturing. Look it up. We manufacture more moneys worth of products than anyone in the world every year. We just don't manufacture a lot of low profit goods like consumer electronics, clothing, etc. the American businesses model has shifted to the larger industrial class; ships, heavy equipment, trucks, industrial equipment etc. I have spent my entire life from 17 on in the manufacturing sector and have been lucky enough to keep adding to my skill set to keep me competitive in the job market. my story isn't typical of every American in the manufacturing sector, but it does reflect in a lot of those who still work. I agree that out sourcing is destroying certain jobs, some of which are in the high paying, high profit areas of the business. Bringing back companies that make TV sets and refrigerators here will not result in a fixed economy, only bankrupt businesses and $5,000 refrigerators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod38um Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Bringing back companies that make TV sets and refrigerators here will not result in a fixed economy, only bankrupt businesses and $5,000 refrigerators.That would be correct if you tried to legislate that companies stay here or pay a penalty. I do not advocate government intervention. What I advocate is creating the environment through taxes and regulations reform that companies choose to do business here because it is cheaper than doing it elsewhere. I dont realy want the government to receive a dime from a company. I'd like to see companies exist here free of charge, employ people in there factories and those people would add to the treasury via the income tax they pay. Any job is better than no job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) fuck them and fuck the entire Occupy bullshit. Yea lets cry about everything and plan bombings from our IphonesI concur...get a job and be an actual productive member of society or be subjected to random beatings from my friend Demarini Edited May 10, 2012 by Bad324 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Of no real benefit to the discussion, but a little NDN humor poking fun at the Occupy movement (in front of them)...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnUiRXf1LuA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedTriple44444 Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 I love this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVe95s6gH1s&feature=relatedIt shows the ignorance of these people. morons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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