buildit Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Lol Europe is not in great shape for other reasons. Guess what...we're next. Analysts are predicting that the house of cards the rich have created is set to collapse worldwide by 2014. The signs are there that it's already in motion. And here we bicker about healthcare Well, here is a history lesson. In every past occurrence of "redistribution" it has been the wealthy and corrupt who are again in control of the majority of the wealth within a decade. The most famous French up risings resulted in no real change in the people who were wealthy. The same is true in Russia after the iron curtain fell. It was the people who could understand the system and were able to use it for their own purposes who regained wealth while others stayed exactly where they were if not in a now worse position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twowheelsnake Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 I dont hate the rich, I hate the fact that most of their kickbacks and bailouts come out of my pocket and it shouldn't. They're the rich ones after all...not me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drc32-0 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 The only reason you guys are arguing about this is because large corporations have put millions of dollars into advertising to make this seem like a bad idea. Why? Because they are not interested in making life better for the common man. They are only interested in protecting their profits. And you ask "what's so wrong with that it's capitalism right?". I don't want for profit healthcare any more than I want for profit prisons. It's not a good thing.So true!Don't you just love the socialist republicans yelling socialist when they have to help someone,but love socialism when they make a dollar off of it...socialist republican C.E.O.'s sending our jobs to socialist China and socialist republicans buy those cheap socialist Chinese products.There's a name for that...Hypocrite.Or republican,they're interchangeable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crb Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 I dont hate the rich, I hate the fact that most of their kickbacks and bailouts come out of my pocket and it shouldn't. They're the rich ones after all...not meFair tax FWIW. The government offers them the bail outs and tax breaks, blame bush! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twowheelsnake Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Hey drc, wanna have some real fun. Look up how much money is spent on corporate welfare compared to social welfare. But somehow even when faced with the facts people keep banging that "capitalism" drum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twowheelsnake Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Fair tax FWIW. The government offers them the bail outs and tax breaks, blame bush!Totally agree man! I want a consumption tax! You want the 250,000 Ferrari? Fine, you're gonna pay taxes on it and not be able to write it off lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swingset Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Hey drc, wanna have some real fun. Look up how much money is spent on corporate welfare compared to social welfare. But somehow even when faced with the facts people keep banging that "capitalism" drum.That you use the term corporate welfare is a telling thing (as if we haven't figured out your talking points yet). Tax breaks do not equal welfare...but I'd bet that's the bulk of your perception and "statistics". A town or state offering a tax break to entice a company to bring jobs and revenue into their area isn't welfare.Let's talk about corporate taxes, which are higher in the US than almost all of the industrialized world. And where do those taxes go? Mostly to the ACTUAL welfare. Oh, and that high rate also chases a lot of jobs overseas where the corps can do business easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crb Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 So true!Don't you just love the socialist republicans yelling socialist when they have to help someone,but love socialism when they make a dollar off of it...socialist republican C.E.O.'s sending our jobs to socialist China and socialist republicans buy those cheap socialist Chinese products.There's a name for that...Hypocrite.Or republican,they're interchangeable. good thing liberals like Jeffrey Immelt and ge make all their products proudly in the USA. Isn't Immelt on Obama's economic team? Look out Justin I can troll too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crb Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Totally agree man! I want a consumption tax! You want the 250,000 Ferrari? Fine, you're gonna pay taxes on it and not be able to write it off lolAgreed! No tax breaks for anybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashweights Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 We're not in that great of shape for the amount of money we spend on health care per capita.http://rendezvous.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/28/u-s-health-care-costs-more-than-socialized-european-medicine/?partner=rss&emc=rssBear in mind the most common health problems we experience in America are self-inflicted. So the amount spent per capital is a poor estimate that is founded on the idea that the more you spend, the healthier you should be. Rather, the more unhealthy you are, the more you spend. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drc32-0 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Yeah,tax breaks aren't welfare,they create jobs..............in China and Vietnam and Bangladesh and India and...Those bleeding heart dems makes it so hard for a socialist repuke to find a good slave now-a-days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crb Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 That you use the term corporate welfare is a telling thing (as if we haven't figured out your talking points yet). Tax breaks do not equal welfare...but I'd bet that's the bulk of your perception and "statistics". A town or state offering a tax break to entice a company to bring jobs and revenue into their area isn't welfare.Let's talk about corporate taxes, which are higher in the US than almost all of the industrialized world. And where do those taxes go? Mostly to the ACTUAL welfare. Oh, and that high rate also chases a lot of jobs overseas where the corps can do business easier.Sorry I would rep you, but I already did today. Stupid PB rule. I guess we should through child tax credits, mortage intetest deductions, child care writes , earned income tax credits into the welfare category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drc32-0 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 I guess we should through child tax credits, mortage intetest deductions, child care writes , earned income tax credits into the welfare category.Finally...something we can agree on.Everything you list IS welfare,how many are you claiming...me,none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottb Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Almost makes you think that Halliburton is in the health care "industry".........oh wait, wrong president.....disregard .......I don't know much of the details of new law, but i don't being forced to buy something. Maybe we can start a company called Ohio Riders Care, and make money selling minuim health care at minium prices? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crb Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Finally...something we can agree on.Everything you list IS welfare,how many are you claiming...me,none.None although I did claim an energy tax credit for insulation. Wife and I pay 28% federal rate I believe. I would have to double check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 Slippery slope.Ahhh, my favorite logical fallacy.http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/slippery-slope/Where did you get the idea that I make 70k?1% tax penalty rate for not having insurance of $695 = $69500/yr, right? Unless you were projecting in the future... you didn't make that clearYour right that I don't have coverage now. Of course I haven't asked you to pay for anything in over 10 years even when I did have coverage, I didn't use it. Just lucky I guess.That's all it was, luck. Looks like I'll just have to wait and see how much this is going to cost me. Until then, complain about it. My g/f is a good cook, but I don't know what my g/f is cooking for dinner, I just know that I won't like it.Oh, and thank you for the implication that I'm fat, stupid and clumsy. Way to make a point! You go man, your on a roll!Really? You're gonna play the martyr-card on one of the various hypothetical reasons I could be charged with your health-carelessness. I don't know you, I haven't met you, but I must've touched a nerve there with you, so maybe I've gotten lucky and guessed the truth? I dunno, but get over yourself.I found another reference to the link, try this one:http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/what-health-bill-means-for-you/#That link works, but I didn't play around with NOT having insurance in the prior link because I filled it out as if I had insurance. I don't really care about the people that already HAVE insurance, it's the ones without right now that worry me and makes me upset when you figure out why a hospital charges $6 for a single Q-tip - to cover the folks that don't pay for their own care.Let's talk about corporate taxes, which are higher in the US than almost all of the industrialized world. And where do those taxes go? Mostly to the ACTUAL welfare. Oh, and that high rate also chases a lot of jobs overseas where the corps can do business easier.Respouting Republican talking points without the research... love it. http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/03/30/456005/reminder-corporate-taxes-very-low/?mobile=ncZOMFG!! All these taxes... these poor corporations that have to pay them. Wait, no they don't. http://ctj.org/corporatetaxdodgers/Finally, I especially want to see the data that shows that most corporate taxes go to ACTUAL welfare. You can't cite "my butt" as a reliable source of information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twowheelsnake Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twowheelsnake Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2011/11/03/pkg-snow-businesses-pay-zero-taxes.cnn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twowheelsnake Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 NO I am not lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swingset Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 (edited) Respouting Republican talking points without the research... love it. http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/03/30/456005/reminder-corporate-taxes-very-low/?mobile=ncZOMFG!! All these taxes... these poor corporations that have to pay them. Wait, no they don't. http://ctj.org/corporatetaxdodgers/Finally, I especially want to see the data that shows that most corporate taxes go to ACTUAL welfare. You can't cite "my butt" as a reliable source of information.Oh lookee, a graph that uses "effective" tax rate instead of statutory. The ACTUAL tax rate IS higher in the US. It's not untrue, it's not lie. Yes, there are diversionary ways that some corps are offered (by the government, btw, not stolen by the corporations) that can lower that rate, but it is a fixed amount, and it is one of the highest in the developed world.And, I agree that some corps don't pay taxes for various reasons - much like Tim Geitner doesn't for some reason. But the overwhelming majority of them do, and even those that do don't actually pay the taxes - we do as consumers and users of their service. Raise them, and we all pay. That's a heady concept to explain to a liberal, but it happens to be true.On where those taxes go, the reason that corporate taxes go to actual welfare is that all taxes go towards actual welfare, which doesn't need citation. All taxes fund the bloated welfare state, which is a huge chunk of the government. Duh.Now, turn that Rage Against the Machine on your Ipod up, and fume for a while about "The Man", if you want. It's obviously doing you good. Edited June 29, 2012 by swingset Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 The point was.. the ACTUAL tax rate is pretty meaningless. Why even bother with that number? Kind of like how the MSRP on a vehicle is meaningless, who pays MSRP for anything? That's just an artificial starting point to brag to your buddies what a great deal you got.I didn't realize you have an expanded definition of welfare... you literally mean welfare, as in the military is welfare because it protects the welfare state? That's kind of a broad definition and useless to make your point isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swingset Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 The point was.. the ACTUAL tax rate is pretty meaningless. Why even bother with that number? Kind of like how the MSRP on a vehicle is meaningless, who pays MSRP for anything? That's just an artificial starting point to brag to your buddies what a great deal you got.I didn't realize you have an expanded definition of welfare... you literally mean welfare, as in the military is welfare because it protects the welfare state? That's kind of a broad definition and useless to make your point isn't it? The tax rate is the tax rate. It's like the price of gas. If it's $4.00 a gallon but some people have a coupon, it's still $4.00 a gallon. Those breaks and deferments aren't for everyone. Some get them, some don't, and yes the average puts the numbers lower but the rate isn't low and the escape from that rate isn't fixed either - it can be changed, revoked, added to or subtracted - much like a coupon, but the price remains because the statutory rate is the code.By welfare, I mean government assistance. Play stupid if you want. I'm not going to play handball with the drapes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 (edited) Some get them... like huge conglomerates who benefit the most from the this consumer driven economy, but then take all the spoils out of this country (on paper only)... yea that's fair. And that's a horrible example because if you use that analogy the people with the "coupons" are getting $4 off gallon to fill up their Porsches, Bentleys, Ferraris, and Lambos, while the regular folks have no coupons and fill up their Taurus and Impalas.I'm not playing stupid, you'll have to clarify your exact definition of welfare because if you think corporate taxes are mostly going to pay "lazy people who just collect a check everything for nothing" -- then you're more ignorant than I thought. Edited June 29, 2012 by JRMMiii Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swingset Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 Some get them... like huge conglomerates who benefit the most from the this consumer driven economy, but then take all the spoils out of this country (on paper only)... yea that's fair.The "spoils" as you put it are corporate profits, and what doesn't fund expansion, growth or innovation is owed to the investors. If those investors are overseas, great. If they're here? They get taxed on those dividends. Those evil investors carry all the risk with their own money, and when things go well there are more jobs and more industry for people...and if they put too much of it overseas you can choose to not fund them with your dollars....which is how all corporations are fueled. Your problem seems to be with people who fund corporations instead of the corps themselves. They don't feed themselves. I'm not playing stupid, you'll have to clarify your exact definition of welfare because if you think corporate taxes are mostly going to pay "lazy people who just collect a check everything for nothing" -- then you're more ignorant than I thought.All taxes are mostly going to pay for our welfare state. The government uses its revenue collected to pay out to those OTHER folks who magically don't pay taxes and escape your scorn - the 50% of the nation who escape having any skin in the game. You can quibble like a retarded child about the definition of welfare, but it's patently obvious that when half of our nation is either let off the hook, carried completely, or otherwise assisted by the money of others, they're "welfare".I agree with you now. You're not playing stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 Wow... you are a Republican talking point machine over there.50% pay no FEDERAL taxes due to them being elderly or "working poor", but most of that 50% very well do pay taxes.http://www.politicususa.com/half-americans-taxes.htmlAs was pointed out earlier... do you take the standard deductions when you file your taxes? Mortgage interest? Then you're a welfare queen buddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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