serpentracer Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 Seriously, either as a troll or a genuine window-licking imbecile, you are a solid 10.I'm breathless.again show us some more of your lack of knowledge by personally attacking the person instead of talking about the debate.good for you. you lost the argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swingset Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 actually you're the one resorting to name calling and insults which shows the lack of knowledge of the discussion. it's a common logical fallacy. called Ad HominemI gave you and fearbot about 3 pages of solid, well reasoned arguments and you just kept repeating the same moronic, half-baked bullshit about "guns for killing" over and over again.hurrr durrrrI'm a nice guy, for real, and I was patient....right up until you shut your fucking brain off and keep hammering the forum with chickenshit arguments and won't address anything that is difficult to challenge. I ask you a direct question, you dodge it and continue like a broken record.That's when you deserve name-calling, and scorn, and ridicule. There's only two possible reasons you won't tackle these points head on:You're disingenuous and know you're full of shit.You're a fucking douche.It HAS to be one or the other, so you tell me. When I make a point about a gun like a target pistol, designed, built, conceived, sold, marketed and used solely as a competition piece and you just blabber again that all guns are for killing, what is that? A serious argument? Fucking douchebag antics is what is.Both of you deserve the bitch slap you're getting, because you're intellectual cowards. Afraid to answer the tough questions, afraid to think, and afraid to admit you're wrong. Or, more likely, you get off on it.Have a nice night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) I've only got one question...does a gun have any "real world" use that doesn't include "intimidation, injury, or "practice" for intimidation or injury...you claim that it is only an instrument of death because some people chose to use it that way... so convince me...Do you use it to drill holes in aluminum siding? Do you use it to prop doors open? Do you use it as a paper weight? Is it a tool for snaking out your drains? do you use it to drain the pool? what do you use it for other than to intimidate and injure? "Target practice" is an obvious dodge of the question because that is just the act of making the user more efficient, you could target practice with a paintball gun or a slingshot, you don't need a gun for target practice. Edited July 28, 2012 by magley64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exarch Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 I've only got one question...does a gun have any "real world" use that doesn't include "intimidation, injury, or "practice" for intimidation or injury...you claim that it is only an instrument of death because some people chose to use it that way... so convince me...Do you use it to drill holes in aluminum siding? Do you use it to prop doors open? Do you use it as a paper weight? Is it a tool for snaking out your drains? do you use it to drain the pool? what do you use it for other than to intimidate and injure? "Target practice" is an obvious dodge of the question because that is just the act of making the user more efficient, you could target practice with a paintball gun or a slingshot, you don't need a gun for target practice.guns are toys, duh..on that note i wish yall a gnight, off work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swingset Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 One last thing. I come here because I enjoy the people and the bikes. I've met quite a few riders here, and all have been great guys. I don't come here to make enemies, it's the last thing on my mind.If you've got me willing to insult over something like this, brother you worked hard at it....and both of you found the magic recipe. I'd still drink a beer with both of you, but if you treat people in person like you do here, it's a wonder anyone could stand to be in the same room with you.You both need to grow up. You're an adult when you can look your at your prejudices and question them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buildit Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 again show us some more of your lack of knowledge by personally attacking the person instead of talking about the debate.I see the issue, debates can propose hypothetical situations. So hypothetically a gun can jump off a shelf, load itself, hop down the street and shoot someone? Figure it out, there ARE people out there who despite the means will and WANT to do people harm. Denying they exist is no better than burying your head in the sand.Simply put, "If you want to try to outrun a bad person with a gun (because they won't give theirs up) be my guest. I'll pray a nice person who is carrying a gun is willing to defend your life. In the mean time if you want to discourage crimes with firearms, why not work for tougher justice for those who would commit crimes WITH a gun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swingset Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 I've only got one question...does a gun have any "real world" use that doesn't include "intimidation, injury, or "practice" for intimidation or injury...you claim that it is only an instrument of death because some people chose to use it that way... so convince me...Do you use it to drill holes in aluminum siding? Do you use it to prop doors open? Do you use it as a paper weight? Is it a tool for snaking out your drains? do you use it to drain the pool? what do you use it for other than to intimidate and injure? "Target practice" is an obvious dodge of the question because that is just the act of making the user more efficient, you could target practice with a paintball gun or a slingshot, you don't need a gun for target practice.Does dynamite have any use besides blowing shit up? Same stupid question, and because you don't find my recreational use for guns satisfactory does not mean that their intention is malicious by nature. My guns aren't for killing, they're for sport, competition, and one of them is for personal defense which I hope is NOT for death. I certainly don't want to shoot anyone, but it's there for the gravest extreme. You can't believe that, I understand, but it's the truth.Stop trying to win, and start trying to think. You, more than serpent, seem to be able to string together sentences in ways that lead me to believe you're somewhat bright.I, and I alone, make a gun a weapon or a toy. A tool or a destructive implement. If I use it to scare birds from shitting on my car? Tool. If I use it to injure someone? Weapon. If I use it to bond with my daughter at a match? It's a priceless family piece of recreation.Why does this hurt or offend you? If you can answer that, you will understand your own fear. And, it's fear brother. You have it.You see evil in guns. And there is no evil in a piece of metal.Understand that. Accept it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 In the mean time if you want to discourage crimes with firearms, why not work for tougher justice for those who would commit crimes WITH a gun?so a 4 yr old who shoots his brother with a gun he found should get a minimum sentence, say 50 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imaposer Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 tell me this, was a gun not purposly built with the sole intention to kill?Tell me this, is every motorcycle purposely designed with the sole intention of racing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapesmuggler27 Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 Tell me this, is every motorcycle purposely designed with the sole intention of racing?EverytimeI see one i think this....hmmm what class would that fit in???!?!?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buildit Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 so a 4 yr old who shoots his brother with a gun he found should get a minimum sentence, say 50 years?Depends on the intent. Obviously a horrible accident involving a firearm is one thing. But I DO believe the parents should be held responsible or if not the parents the person who allowed a gun to fall into the hands of a 4 yo. As my dad used to say, "The weight of a gun is not measured in ounces or grams, but the responsibility it represents." That is why responsible owners know:1. Always point a gun in a safe direction2. Never put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to use a gun3. Assume a gun is ALWAYS loaded, even when you know it isn't4. Always secure a weapon not in use. This can be a properly installed gun trigger lock or bolt lock, gun safe or place inaccessible to others.5. When you fire a gun, you can never recall that bullet. So be certain where you fire is free of obstruction and safe from others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 We should outlaw bows and arrows. They were made to kill...food. and rocks. Outlaw them too. Oldest weapon known to man. People get stoned to death still. That's their only purpose any why they are made, to kill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) Does dynamite have any use besides blowing shit up?NO! it doesn't.... excellent, you seem to be catching on...dynamite is used to "blow shit up", it was designed for mining, excellent Same stupid question, and because you don't find my recreational use for guns satisfactory does not mean that their intention is malicious by nature.I could buy a tank because i enjoy driving over sand dunes with it... doesn't change what a tank was designed for...My guns aren't for killing, they're for sport, competition, and one of them is for personal defense which I hope is NOT for death. I certainly don't want to shoot anyone, but it's there for the gravest extreme. You can't believe that, I understand, but it's the truth.personal defense how? does it make an inpenetrable force field around your loved ones? no? oh, intimidation and injury.. got it..Stop trying to win, and start trying to think. You, more than serpent, seem to be able to string together sentences in ways that lead me to believe you're somewhat bright.maybe take some of your own advice, the end result here isn't to convince you not to own guns or continue to play with them, but just a little revelation as to what a gun really is, why it exists in the first place...I, and I alone, make a gun a weapon or a toy. A tool or a destructive implement. If I use it to scare birds from shitting on my car? Tool. If I use it to injure someone? Weapon. If I use it to bond with my daughter at a match? It's a priceless family piece of recreation.If you need a gun to bond with your daughter, I fear there is something seriously wrong with your family dynamic. You could bond with your daughter other ways, read together, play ladder ball... it's not the only tool for the job, even if it excites you the most. Could you scare birds other ways? sure you could... Why does this hurt or offend you? If you can answer that, you will understand your own fear. And, it's fear brother. You have it.it's not fear... if you could see in my head... it's understanding..tits are for nourishing infants, guns are for injuring and intimidating... we can use them both as toys, but it doesn't change their original purpose.You see evil in guns. And there is no evil in a piece of metal.Understand that. Accept it.again, if you could see into my head.. I don't believe evil even exists, it's an invented and extremely subjective term... Edited July 28, 2012 by magley64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentracer Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 ok guys look. YES I'm just trolling you. I had guns too. but I don't lie to myself to help me sleep at night. it's a weapon designed to kill people. that's all it is. like magley64 said, it wasn't made to be anything else. it is what it is. there's no tap dancing around the fact. you need to accept it. sure all i ever wanted to do with it was blast shit at outdoor ranges or on farms. I don't think I could ever kill someone with it though.any arguments for having a gun are in fact meritless. just admit you want a gun to potentially blow some asshole's head off or to blast shit with it for fun. that's all it amounts to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 We should outlaw bows and arrows. They were made to kill...food. and rocks. Outlaw them too. Oldest weapon known to man. People get stoned to death still. That's their only purpose any why they are made, to kill.again, I'm not proposing we outlaw anything...but yes, bow and arrow were designed for the same purpose, to injure and intimidate...how many eople do you see going on shooting rampages with bows and arrows? could it be that we just don't live in a culture where the bow is worshipped like the gun is? or is it because the gun has the same design intent, and is more efficient?rocks have WAY more uses than killing people, for instance they can be used to build houses... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentracer Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 I have a gun because it's the most efficient way to kill something. I've already mentioned this' date=' and I don't see how this is a problem. [/quote']there ya go. that's exactly what people need to remind themselves of. instead of going defensive about it which is useless. it's about as useless as defending a heroin addiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buildit Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 ok guys look. YES I'm just trolling you. any arguments for having a gun are in fact meritless. just admit you want a gun to potentially blow some asshole's head off or to blast shit with it for fun. that's all it amounts to.What you say is YOUR perception of it. Knives were made for killing as were swords and even our friend the base ball bat, a club by any other term, was intended to kill, maime and injure either for hunting or offensive and defensive purposes. But base ball bats are not outlawed because people do NOT perceive them as weapons. But if people started running around bashing heads in with louisville sluggers that might change, just like some terrorist on a plane changed the perception of the box cutter. Your perception of a firearm is NOT the same as mine and sounds like it never will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentracer Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) What you say is YOUR perception of it. Knives were made for killing as were swords and even our friend the base ball bat, a club by any other term, was intended to kill, maime and injure either for hunting or offensive and defensive purposes. But base ball bats are not outlawed because people do NOT perceive them as weapons. But if people started running around bashing heads in with louisville sluggers that might change, just like some terrorist on a plane changed the perception of the box cutter. Your perception of a firearm is NOT the same as mine and sounds like it never will be.except everything you listed has other intented uses. except swords. I can give you that. but no one is running around killing people with those. and it's not a perception dude. it's reality. I don't get why some of you find that so hard to understand. and gun is made to kill. period. it's nothing else besides that. all the technology that goes into making them makes them even more deadly. you can target shoot with pellet guns etc.let me ask you guys why do you favor disarming other nations from nukes? they're like baseball bats right? Edited July 28, 2012 by serpentracer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twowheelsnake Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 If you need a gun to bond with your daughter, I fear there is something seriously wrong with your family dynamic. You could bond with your daughter other ways, read together, play ladder ball... it's not the only tool for the job, even if it excites you the most. Could you scare birds other ways? sure you could... What activity a man uses to bond with his daughter is not for you to judge. It is YOUR opinion, just like your views on guns. My father taught me to shoot at an early age, I remember those times fondly. Never once do I say "golly gee, I sure wish we were tossing the ole pigskin around instead". To this day my father and I go shooting together, usually for competition. Not once do I look at him and say "sure would like to use this thing to blow someone's head off dad". That's ridiculous. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 When people stop remembering that a gun is a killing machine.. accidents happen. The gun is not the problem' date=' however. Anybody that argues against that notion is a twat. Plain and simple. You cannot eliminate death by removing tools. Cain killed Abel long before guns, knives, hatchets.. existed. (ok.. so, Cain and Abel probably didn't exist, but that's not the point)[/quote']I totally agree with this statement...RepI would never argue that guns are the problem, but I do think that guns make the problem worse in more ways than it makes the problem better, simply as a function of it's design intent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentracer Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 When people stop remembering that a gun is a killing machine.. accidents happen. The gun is not the problem' date=' however. Anybody that argues against that notion is a twat. Plain and simple. You cannot eliminate death by removing tools. Cain killed Abel long before guns, knives, hatchets.. existed. (ok.. so, Cain and Abel probably didn't exist, but that's not the point)[/quote']I can strangle someone to death too. but my hands were not made to purposly kill.or I guess if you believe in god so much you can say every bit of me was designed to kill since people kill people not guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 What activity a man uses to bond with his daughter is not for you to judge. It is YOUR opinion, just like your views on guns. I haven't judged him for it, in fact it doesn't bother me at all.... The only point I was making was simply that there are other tools for that purpose. Tools that don't include deadly weapons... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twowheelsnake Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 I haven't judged him for it, in fact it doesn't bother me at all.... The only point I was making was simply that there are other tools for that purpose. Tools that don't include deadly weapons...Well that can't include baseball! A bat is a deadly weapon. And you DID judge him by saying something is wrong with his family dynamic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 same as other thread, been a pleasure, enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 Well that can't include baseball! A bat is a deadly weapon. And you DID judge him by saying something is wrong with his family dynamic.*facepalm*re-read.. then come backdone?I'm fully confident he can bond with his daughter, reardless of the presence of guns...goodnight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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