magley64 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 you mean, doing stuff that doesn't involve getting your hands dirty (literally) or physical labor is not a "job"?by the strictest sense of the word, sure... does it qualify? ehh not really...feel free to come up with an example that changes my mind.the hardest working people in this country get paid the least... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbot Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 by the strictest sense of the word, sure... does it qualify? ehh not really...feel free to come up with an example that changes my mind.the hardest working people in this country get paid the least...the fact that i have list ANYTHING to "change" your mind is pretty silly. there are plenty of people that don't do physical labor and don't sweat at their jobs that work just as hard, put lots of hours in, under pressure, stress, and are generally people just like you and me.ANY scientist/researchers of any discipline comes to mind. a multitude of therapists that don't have to perform hard physical labor but they do occasionally have to use years of schooling and generally their brains. programmers of any kind (anything from software to CNC), many engineers, the list goes on and on. you must think investment banking is easy. being a lawyer must be "easy". becoming a judge was easy. what about being a director of films, or writer, or poets? must be easy.seriously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 ANY scientist/researchers of any discipline comes to mind. a multitude of therapists that don't have to perform hard physical labor but they do occasionally have to use years of schooling and generally their brains. programmers of any kind (anything from software to CNC), many engineers, the list goes on and on. you must think investment banking is easy. being a lawyer must be "easy". becoming a judge was easy. what about being a director of films, or writer, or poets? must be easy.seriously?Easy compared to say, a miner, or a smelter, or a blacksmith, or a logger..yesnow those jobs definitely require a certain skill level, education, or vision...but they aren't strenuous... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hue jass Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 So you go through all the trouble of switching, and is there some guarantee that the new bank isn't going to introduce fees? I think that's where they're all heading. I just parked a few thou' into a savings account at 5/3 and there's never a fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 no guarantee, no... but it would make sense that the ones who havent introduced new fees would see a surge in their number of accounts and want to keep it that way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashweights Posted July 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Because that's what unemployment benefits are there for. I wholeheartedly agree with ScubaCinci, and over the last 2 years I've been building up a emergency fund that I'm happy to say will fund my expenses for about 6 months. However, if I'm laid off or otherwise eligible for unemployment benefits, you bet your ass I'm going to take them, on top of what I already have stashed away. Sure, I didn't factor them in my planning since it would be silly to make that kind of a assumption, but I'd take them and so would you. I don't usually speak in absolutes, but anyone who says differently is flat-out lying.No doubt, I was on unemployment for 3 months. Best time of my life. Part of the reason I question it, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Because that's what unemployment benefits are there for. I wholeheartedly agree with ScubaCinci, and over the last 2 years I've been building up a emergency fund that I'm happy to say will fund my expenses for about 6 months. However, if I'm laid off or otherwise eligible for unemployment benefits, you bet your ass I'm going to take them, on top of what I already have stashed away. Sure, I didn't factor them in my planning since it would be silly to make that kind of a assumption, but I'd take them and so would you. I don't usually speak in absolutes, but anyone who says differently is flat-out lying.Keep it up you might start sounding like one of those crazy preppers people are so scared of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbot Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Easy compared to say, a miner, or a smelter, or a blacksmith, or a logger..yesnow those jobs definitely require a certain skill level, education, or vision...but they aren't strenuous...so if a job doesn't require physical labor, it's easy and shouldn't be paid more than a job that does? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baptizo Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) My CU is over 2000 miles away in Spokane, WA and has always been a pleasure to deal with online, over the phone, and also through the Shared Branching network They don't charge any stupid fees and reimburse my ATM fees if I satisfy just a few requirements which are easily met with my debit card usage. I've also just secured a loan for my truck and handled it all over the phone. Edited July 25, 2012 by baptizo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 so if a job doesn't require physical labor, it's easy and shouldn't be paid more than a job that does?riiight...because i have an opinion on how difficult or strenuous a job is, automatically i'm in charge of what pays what... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbot Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 yup, if you call being an investor and CEO a "job", but then if being an investor is a job then being a politician is just as worthyHas he ever broken a sweat in the process of earning money? I doubt it...by the strictest sense of the word, sure... does it qualify? ehh not really...feel free to come up with an example that changes my mind.the hardest working people in this country get paid the least...Easy compared to say, a miner, or a smelter, or a blacksmith, or a logger..yesnow those jobs definitely require a certain skill level, education, or vision...but they aren't strenuous...riiight...because i have an opinion on how difficult or strenuous a job is, automatically i'm in charge of what pays what...Oh lol I don't think you're in charge of that and I certainly wasn't claiming that. I was questioning what your opinion is as a follow up question to your posts and replies in an attempt to understand why your opinion sounds so stupid when in real life, you're clearly not. So do you think wage should, in large part, be based on how much a "real job" requires sweating and strenuous physical labor versus amount of education, training, skill, etc etc etc? Should a miner earn more than a cancer researcher, for instance? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meanie Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Good to hear. Which CU are you going to?CME, we have had a secondary account with them for a few years. Just tired of Chases BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnone Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Tough non physical jobs aren't what's in question. I mostly think that it isn't easy to make great wealth, but it is easier if you start off with rich parents and are raised by rich and influential people. Romney went to the best schools without trying. Meet great connections. Then with his own effort on top of all that great beginning he made a shit load more money. He has been 'earning' 10+ million a year lately while running for office. I'm pretty sure most would say that's easy money and would happily trade their job for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashweights Posted July 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Tough non physical jobs aren't what's in question. I mostly think that it isn't easy to make great wealth, but it is easier if you start off with rich parents and are raised by rich and influential people. Romney went to the best schools without trying. Meet great connections. Then with his own effort on top of all that great beginning he made a shit load more money. He has been 'earning' 10+ million a year lately while running for office. I'm pretty sure most would say that's easy money and would happily trade their job for it.Problem in his logic is we're now in a world where great ideas and great minds are worth more than great labor. Big money is in creating, not sweating. This ain't the stone ages any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Hell, I'd be happy with just having Romney's tax rate... sucks to make an "income" and not "capital gains" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Too many millionaires ans billionaires just don't know what it means to to an honest days worth of real physical work...Then they come out and tell you how hard they worked for their money, and how they've created so much... riiight...It's a pretty simple analogy in my mind..Working class: pedestrians, at any time they stop "working" they stop advancing...Small business owners: bicyclists, if they stop putting effort into their business, their business slows down, and eventually stops, but they get a lot further and travel a lot faster than pedestrians for the amount of work they put in.Medium business owners, ceos, cfos upper management: motorcyclists: not a lot of work, just basically picking the right direction, keeping aware of what's going on, and nudging the controls here and there to get where you are going, much faster than a bicycle or walking...Big business / born rich: chauffered, hire a decent driver, tell him where you want to go, take a nap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbot Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Tough non physical jobs aren't what's in question. I mostly think that it isn't easy to make great wealth, but it is easier if you start off with rich parents and are raised by rich and influential people. Romney went to the best schools without trying. Meet great connections. Then with his own effort on top of all that great beginning he made a shit load more money. He has been 'earning' 10+ million a year lately while running for office. I'm pretty sure most would say that's easy money and would happily trade their job for it.there was no argument regarding head starts from a long line of wealth, deep rooted networks, nepotism, what have you. the conversation he and i were having was strictly about what are considered "real jobs" and where the value was.Problem in his logic is we're now in a world where great ideas and great minds are worth more than great labor. Big money is in creating, not sweating. This ain't the stone ages any more.that's the general idea i'm going with. i'm trying to figure out just where he is coming from.Hell, I'd be happy with just having Romney's tax rate... sucks to make an "income" and not "capital gains"i'm going to go with teams of godly accountants. didn't obama release his tax returns or something a few years ago? i think his was in the mere 7-8 figure range. i would enjoy seeing one from one of the ultra wealthy, just to see the crazy numbers. though, i'm guessing it just ends up being a chase through the endless corporate tax returns and probably other stuff i have no idea about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 It's a pretty simple analogy in my mind..Working class: pedestrians, at any time they stop "working" they stop advancing...Small business owners: bicyclists, if they stop putting effort into their business, their business slows down, and eventually stops, but they get a lot further and travel a lot faster than pedestrians for the amount of work they put in.Medium business owners, ceos, cfos upper management: motorcyclists: not a lot of work, just basically picking the right direction, keeping aware of what's going on, and nudging the controls here and there to get where you are going, much faster than a bicycle or walking...Big business / born rich: chauffered, hire a decent driver, tell him where you want to go, take a nap.Interesting anology.Being misinformed isn't terrible. However, being misinformed and convinced you are right is a dangerous combination. I will consider this when I read your posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbot Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 still waiting on an answer to my question. just want his opinion so i can understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 So do you think wage should, in large part, be based on how much a "real job" requires sweating and strenuous physical labor versus amount of education, training, skill, etc etc etc? Should a miner earn more than a cancer researcher, for instance?I'm not disregarding education, training or skill...What I'm concerned with is the addition of value, and the disproportionate income of those that DO add value vs. those that just manage the people who are actually doing the work.Or like Mitt Romney, earning millions by stealing it from the pockets of workers who put the work in to earn it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 the hardest working people in this country get paid the least...Uhhh....not even close. People with a low level of qualifications tend to have lower paying, less desirable jobs.People that have higher level of qualifications, initiative, or a proven work history at lower level jobs tend to be able to land more desireable positions. Of course there are exceptions. Circle of life. Hakuna Matata bitches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbot Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 I'm not disregarding education, training or skill...What I'm concerned with is the addition of value, and the disproportionate income of those that DO add value vs. those that just manage the people who are actually doing the work.Or like Mitt Romney, earning millions by stealing it from the pockets of workers who put the work in to earn it.so... you aren't disregarding education, training, and/or skill in your first sentence, and then get right to disregarding it in very next few words.got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 The difficulty of a job really isn't a major factor in setting compensation levels.There is a strong correlation between compensation and how quickly a replacement can be found & trained to do that particular job.If you have a special skill or necessary certification that is difficult to obtain, companies have no choice but to pay you more.If a replacement can be found and trained in a matter a of days...guess what.I won't argue if that is good or bad, but it is a fact. Anyone who knows how HR works would say the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 so... you aren't disregarding education, training, and/or skill in your first sentence, and then get right to disregarding it in very next few words.got it.No...you misunderstand me...It's about adding value, not how you do it. I'm a Mechanical engineer, I add value through my understanding of physics, technology and integration. Specifically with my input on designs, processes, or systems based on that understanding. Improving a product from concept and development to make it more valuable, easier to manufacture, quicker to assemble, cheaper to produce, longer lasting, or any combination of those(including others).I also add value by streamlining processes, reducing labor costs, automating, or otherwise making the manufacturing process better.The final way I add value is through integration. Making processes smarter by linking them with other processes to reduce unnecessary costs involved with storage, logistics, and wasted transportation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbot Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 No...you misunderstand me...It's about adding value, not how you do it. I'm a Mechanical engineer, I add value through my understanding of physics, technology and integration. Specifically with my input on designs, processes, or systems based on that understanding. Improving a product from concept and development to make it more valuable, easier to manufacture, quicker to assemble, cheaper to produce, longer lasting, or any combination of those(including others).I also add value by streamlining processes, reducing labor costs, automating, or otherwise making the manufacturing process better.The final way I add value is through integration. Making processes smarter by linking them with other processes to reduce unnecessary costs involved with storage, logistics, and wasted transportation.are you a dancer? you keep skirting around the question like a mechanical engineering ballerina:should you, mechanical engineer extraordinaire, make more or less than Mr. bluecollar who works on the production/assembly line, ruining his joints and back from the strain of lifting those 45LB 4oz castings of "sweaty nutsack" housings onto the assembly line over and over again, sweating his nutsack off while you sit on your cushy desk job, playing with computers drawing sweaty nutsacks on Solidworks or AutoCAD in the AC and running lifecycle studies on said sweaty nutsack and revising future sweaty nutsack casting designs as a result of tests you know how to develop and run due to your expertise/training/schooling?i'm assuming the answer will be, you should earn more because you impact the earning/losing of money on a bigger scale than the line worker because you add more value overall after the dust settles. just how do you think you add more value when you put in less physical work? how is this possible?! IMPOSSIBRU!!11!am i right?if so, we can go onto the next chapter of "value added hierarchy 101" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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