donkason Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 I am going to get a custom tune for my 07 GIXXER 750. They discussed tuning it to run racing fuel and it would net me a HP gain. It's a dedicated track bike so I'm down for that. I have a couple of questions and you folks could probably help.1. I've heard leaving racing fuel in your system, even for a short time, could jack up the bike because of the lack of additives that are in pump gas. Is that true?2. What kind of shelf life does race gas have?3. If #1 is true can I use additives, like seafoam, to allow it to sit in the bike or do I need to pull the tank and drain the fuel out and put a little pump fuel in while it sits4. If I have to drain the tank how do I do it without spilling expensive gas all over myself? Is there an aftermarket quick disconnect valve or some such convenience product. Let me know how the big dogs handle it:bow: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 I wouldn't waste your money and just tune it on pump gas.You could try to hit up scj1000 on here he runs it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Depends on the race gas used. Let's use VP U4.4 which I run as an example. Yes, you need to drain the tank at the end of each day and run pump gas through the fuel pump a short time. The reason is more due to the fact that race fuel will destroy the o-rings and such within the pump...Another thing is that while race fuel technically can be ran for a very long time, the example I am using is oxygenated. Every time you crack it open, you lose the good stuff.Another thing is that race fuel has a shelf life. If it is an opened container, it isn't going to sit long before it is basically wasted. Sure, it will run your bike, but it doesn't get the gains it did before...In the end, unless you are at the top of the rung in racing a series you run at, it really is a waste of money. Track day use? SERIOUS waste of money. I always love it when I come up behind a rider as I am setting up to pass by and smell the top shelf race fuel they are running... Makes me giggle. Could be the fumes. Or, could be the fact that I waxed them while running 93 octane... as for draining the tank, I use a boat siphoning setup. Has the brass end with a marble inside and you essentially jiggle until it shows fuel coming up and it will drain the tank. I then replace pump gas in, start and run for a while... Done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rctaylor Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Thanks for the informative post, Brian.Race gas sure smells good, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmutt Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 I know that drag guys and mile guys tend to favor the race fuels since they're actually using the gains. Trackday use, like Brian says, is probably a waste of money. I'd think that you wouldn't need that little bit of extra power to help reduce laptimes that couldn't be found with a couple later braking points, a little more momentum through a few turns, or different race lines here and there. As well as the extra labor involved with draining the tank, cycling pumpgas, and proper storage of the fuel everyday you ride. Really up to you and your wallet though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 I wouldn't waste your money and just tune it on pump gas.You could try to hit up scj1000 on here he runs it.100% agree. Race fuel makes an expensive sport far more expensive. IF you can justify the "need" for more horsepower, I would look at other means first.Really, weight loss is the absolute best mod you can make. Hp only makes you faster on the gas. Weight loss makes you faster in the turns as well. Start cutting down the wiring harness and sub frame, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary#17 Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Race gas for track days is a total waste of money. I'd spend the money on suspension, better gear and more track days. We typically only brought the race gas out for special races like the GNF. I haven't raced in like 6 years and it was atrociously expensive back then, I can't imagine what it costs now!Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmutt Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 100% agree. Race fuel makes an expensive sport far more expensive. IF you can justify the "need" for more horsepower, I would look at other means first.Really, weight loss is the absolute best mod you can make. Hp only makes you faster on the gas. Weight loss makes you faster in the turns as well. Start cutting down the wiring harness and sub frame, etc.Good point, cutting weight off the machine is typically free until you start replacing components with cf, magnesium, titanium, etc. Lighter machine is race craft 101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTM Brian Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Someone needs to put the compression through the roof on a sport bike and let me tune it on Corn "E85". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Copeland Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 My bike was custom tuned for 110 race gas.It even had a little in it when I got it last OctoberI run 93 octane in it now and it runs great.So,save your money for more important things like seat time and tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Good point, cutting weight off the machine is typically free until you start replacing components with cf, magnesium, titanium, etc. Lighter machine is race craft 101Even when the weight reduction or horsepower increase costs you money, it's only costing you money ONCE.Race gas costs you money every time you fill the tank.Like Mary said, if you're racing really competitively and want to use race fuel when the stakes are particularly high, then that's cool, but I would have 2 separate maps programmed, and use the "89 octane" map whenever possible, and the "race fuel" map only when necessary.Also like Mary said, it's never really "necessary" to use race gas at a track day...If the 750 isn't powerful enough, look into liter bikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrown57 Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Someone needs to put the compression through the roof on a sport bike and let me tune it on Corn "E85". I remember you talking about that at the Dyno day. "Poor mans race fuel" I believe is how you put it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkason Posted August 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 I like the idea of having two maps. I really don't want to mess around with the maintenance side of draining and refueling unless I have to. Would I have to bring race fuel and have it for the tuning session to get both maps? Also what's the story on the 98 Octane Sunoco fuel? They sell it at Mid Ohio and it looks like it's near unleaded pump gas from what I read online. Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c7fx Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) I once had a bike that needed to run High octane fuel r/t the high compression motor. It really became more of a pain in the ass looking for fuel and carrying the fuel around. The last two bikes I owned I made sure that they would run on pump fuel. Both actually had great Hp and I didn't have to search around for fuel. If I had some fuel left at the end of the day I would just toss it into the truck.Like others have said you want better performance...eat a salad instead of that cheeseburger Ha!Also Doesn't running E85 consume more fuel? Edited August 9, 2012 by c7fx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Also Doesn't running E85 consume more fuel?yes, lower MPG's, (less energy stored per gallon) but you can use higher compression/forced induction without the tendency of pre-ignition (pinging)Re: lower weight, just don't start chopping big holes in your frame... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTM Brian Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Tune for pump gas and be done. Assuming your motor is stock you are not going to see any benefit to race fuel unless you plan on running oxygenated fuel. TOO HIGH OF OCTANE WILL CAUSE YOU TO LOSE POWER IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE COMPRESSION OR IGNITION ADVANCE TO RUN ITThese tiny little miracles of engines make super good power on pump gas. If you think that higher octane fuel is going to benefit your application, (Again I assume your engine is stock. Not concerned with modifications outside the engine) I would suggest doing your homework on how octane impacts a engine. The higher the octane the slower the burn. The engineers designed these motors to run on the gas that comes out of our pumps. No sense in trying to "fix" something that is not broken. Spend less time worrying about race gas and spend more time worry about the tune being correct in the bike.Getting the correct A/F ratios is WAYYYYY more important then throwing money away on race gas for an engine that was not built to run on race gas.Done with my rant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkason Posted August 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Tune for pump gas and be done. Assuming your motor is stock you are not going to see any benefit to race fuel unless you plan on running oxygenated fuel. TOO HIGH OF OCTANE WILL CAUSE YOU TO LOSE POWER IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE COMPRESSION OR IGNITION ADVANCE TO RUN ITThese tiny little miracles of engines make super good power on pump gas. If you think that higher octane fuel is going to benefit your application, (Again I assume your engine is stock. Not concerned with modifications outside the engine) I would suggest doing your homework on how octane impacts a engine. The higher the octane the slower the burn. The engineers designed these motors to run on the gas that comes out of our pumps. No sense in trying to "fix" something that is not broken. Spend less time worrying about race gas and spend more time worry about the tune being correct in the bike.Getting the correct A/F ratios is WAYYYYY more important then throwing money away on race gas for an engine that was not built to run on race gas.Done with my rant.I understand how octane works. The engine is stock, quick, and I was not trying to fix it, but maybe improve it. I was presented with a situation when tuning they could arrange it to work with high octane fuel. That got me interested. However, it seems to be an expensive pain in the ass for a small net gain in HP that can be quickly mitigated by skill and not being 230lbs. I'm currently working on getting back to 210lbs. If I was racing competitively it would not be in vein, but for track days I'd spend $15 a gallon to have sweet smelling exhaust. Negatives do outweigh the positives here. I got the PC to smooth out a few flat spots in the power band and the fuel issue was a secondary thought. You guys are great. Thanks! Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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