Moto-Brian Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 So, since you all are Jonesin to get another thread in, let's talk cornering. We can break it down into three segments and let's try and focus on each segment in each thread. You want threads? You gonna get 'em! So, Part 1 is entry. Let's include a bit of braking in this section, but let's try and not discuss trail braking too much as it gets hairy and we can make an additional thread later. Yes, trail braking is part of advanced riding and you really just need to look at the cornering sections and the braking idea separately.So, getting your braking done and out of the way, let's talking entering the corner.Setting up of course during braking is going to assist on slowing down into the turn. Trail braking occurs and is something that is an advanced technique and we really don't need to discuss it to cover cornering into a turn. But, to touch on it, the faster guys are going to flirt with a fine line of lower lap times and faster corner entry and higher corner speed by trail braking. I personally do not like to discuss a lot towards trail braking when generalizing like we are doing. Simple reasoning is because someone can think they are going to go out and try it, focus on it and wad shit up into a pop can after 1 lap. It's just too touchy at a generalized level... We get into some advanced topics and I will be all about discussing it...So, we get our braking done, have sat up, slowed the bike to a speed we are comfortable with and ready to get in there and dig in. Body position is key. You need to limit the amount of movement and repositioning one's self on the bike entering a high speed corner. Those little inputs will upset the chassis and depending on your speed, can cause the bike to get Madcat, I mean squirrelly on you. The idea is to TRY and keep the wheels in line. The faster you go, the looser the bike will tend to become. Lifting the rear wheel under heavy braking for example unloads the rear and when it comes back down while entering the turn, will get it loose and out of shape. Looks cool on camera and is a great sensation, but for what we are talking about, let's try and keep the wheels in line. You faster guys are not going to be able to do this, but can smooth it out for sure to be less a burden.You are going to hear a bunch of stuff regarding head position, elbows, butt, etc. There is NO EXACT AND PERFECT WAY TO RIDE A MOTORCYCLE! Yes, there are basics and teaching basics is really what needs to be done. Why? Look at the top 5 MotoGP guys, top 5 AMA guys, WSBK, etc. All of the riders have similar "basic" body style, but no two seem to be exact. You are as individual as your grandmother says you are. Some guys ride the front, have traditional style (myself), new style with elbows draggin (Ryan Kerr as an example), head tilted sideways (Frankenfield), head down with eyes way up (Rossi), etc. Are we all the same speed? No! But, each rider does a fairly good job within the ranks they race. But, body style isn't an indicator of speed. You can be taught where the head goes, elbows go, butt, etc and in general terms, you need to make sure you are doing these things. There IS a wrong way. But, to say someone is doing it wrong is tough. I've seen guys that run a body position/style that has their elbows dragging the ground, but are 15 seconds off pace. They look the part, but their corner speed is poor and needs attention.Body position going into the turn needs to be started towards your position while in the turn. You need to get that knee out, get the elbows up and squeeze that tank with the legs to absorb some of that braking going in vs the arms. Start the process of getting the butt over and getting that head where it needs to be.So, basic stuff here. That seam up the back of your butt? That baby needs to be on the edge of the seat in the direction you are heading. Turning right? Crack on the right side of the seat.Head - needs to be somewhat near or pointed towards where your mirror is/was. I like to tell guys to get the head down and try to get it where the end of your mirror or where it would be. That make sense? You cannot put your head to where the tabs of your fairing are, but getting forward and head down, it is the idea of making sure the head isn't sitting straight up and down. The idea is that where the head is pointed, is where you want to go. Tilting down like Rossi does for example is somewhat a counter to this idea, but his eyes are up and looking to where he wants to be...Elbows are out. Not against the tank. The hands need to be similar to what your position of your hand would be when turning a door knob. If they are stiff and straight, you are not getting that flexibility you need. Elbows being out gets the wrists in the right spot. Plus, you look cooler. Knee out, but doesn't need to be so far out that you limit the lean angle. I tend to try and get guys to aim the knee vs just 90 degrees from the bike. It can stay closer and using the knee is as different for each rider as style. I barely drag a knee. I've seen guys that need new pucks at the end of a single day. It's all what your style is and there isn't a right or wrong. There is a bad position where we see guys sticking knees out and limiting their lean angle, but that tends to show more issues than just the knee.The throttle...The throttle needs to be different for the bike you are on. The twin I raced the last few seasons required to almost keep some throttle on. Really. Never completely off... It allowed the bike to prevent the jerkiness from on/off on a big cylinder twin and seemed to work great. But, on an inline, you don't CHOP the throttle, but you roll out completely and then get back on to even a neutral throttle position in some cases or back into a roll on in others. But, braking, body position and then throttle.You really need to get those things in line to get ready for mid corner and especially the drive out...Pretty basic, right? Kinda... But, there are issues to where the lap times get lower the better you get at braking and corner entry. But, corner entry under late braking for example, can be limiting and hurt our drive out. In my mind, the drive out is more important than entry. Especially as most tracks have more drive turns than braking turns. This means that the importance of mid corner to drive out at exit is important. But, setting up the corner at entry and getting that right is needed to be fluid and make the entire thing come together. You can botch an entry, but it deflates the ability to get that solid drive and make that lost ground up.We start to blur lines with the braking ideas so, look at the braking topic later. But, watch a guy that gets in deep and hard on the brakes late to try and make a pass only to run wide due to high entry speed and the guy he passed on the inside, now drives out under the passer on the exit. Which was faster? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1crusher Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 Coach Brian! Coach Brian!You didn't mention getting your downshifts in. Is this something that's not important when entering a corner? How will not downshifting effect the drive exiting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcat6183 Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 Good writeup, I always get yelled at by Craigy Poo for my head positioning, needs dropped more. My gut gets in the way though and I need to lose that thing so I can be super fast like Hollydoosh and Termegay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1crusher Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 Termegay's gut doesn't appear to get in the way. You should ask him what he does to over come it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 Termegay's gut doesn't appear to get in the way. You should ask him what he does to over come it.It's ginger voodoo.Brian good point on how Rossi holds his head. I have been bitched at for looking at the pavement but I use my eyes to look up and not tilt my head. The pictures look funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcat6183 Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 Ah yes, the Ginger, dangit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbot Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 lol @ r1gutbusterback on topic:talk more about trail braking, pleeeeaaaase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1crusher Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 That will be a different topic, numbnuts. Did you even read the first post?!?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted November 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 Coach Brian! Coach Brian!You didn't mention getting your downshifts in. Is this something that's not important when entering a corner? How will not downshifting effect the drive exiting?We will discuss in the braking segment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbot Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 That will be a different topic, numbnuts. Did you even read the first post?!?!?no. did you see how many letters were in that thing? so many letters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRMN8TR Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 Termegay's gut doesn't appear to get in the way. You should ask him what he does to over come it.Just suck it in fatties! Really it does get in the way, so this off season I'll be hitting the gym harder than madcats morning wood. You guys won't even recognise me. You will think the real terminator Arnold himself has shown up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcat6183 Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 Just suck it in fatties! Really it does get in the way, so this off season I'll be hitting the gym harder than madcats morning wood. This is not possible, just ask my wife, oh wait, don't she just makes fun of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exarch Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 Any of these topics(including future) appy to the street? I'm talking going a safe speed(speed limit, maybe a lil above) I've read this one and the last one you made, not sure if it just applies to the track/high speeds or in general. I'll continue to read regardless, but if I learn something in the process great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 I would say they do. I don't ride differently on the street minus the pace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 This may have been a "you're not ready for that yet" piece of advice, but it really helped me out when I was in B group, and just moving up to I. Brian touched on this, but didn't explicitly say it:Especially when you're approaching a turn after a sustained straightaway, get your ass moved while you're still on the gas. The bike is most stable while you're going fast in a straight line, so do your moving and 'get ready' then, rather than under braking and sort of during corner entry.Brian did explicitly note that moving during a turn is essentialy a suspension input and can disrupt the chassis. If you have your butt off before you brake, you're eliminating your full body-weight from shifting on the seat/pegs, and really only (smoothly) moving your head and shoulders to the inside as you tip the bike into the turn.Plus it just takes away one more thing to think about as you initiate turn-in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRMN8TR Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 Plus it just takes away one more thing to think about as you initiate turn-in.Exactly. Break everything down into different segments, and it won't seem so scary to go into the corner faster. Get your body position set up, then brake/downshift, smoothly make the last body position changes, then corner. It's a lot easier that way then trying to do it all at once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRMN8TR Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 Any of these topics(including future) appy to the street? I'm talking going a safe speed(speed limit, maybe a lil above) I've read this one and the last one you made, not sure if it just applies to the track/high speeds or in general. I'll continue to read regardless, but if I learn something in the process great.Everything here applies to the street as well. The main difference is the pace for the street should be much slower than the track. At a slower pace, most of these things aren't as big of a deal. Doesn't mean they don't apply though, and street riding can be a great place to practice technique/body position without worrying about going fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exarch Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 (edited) Oh, another question... you mentioned throttle control on a twin being different than an inline 4... I haven't done any cornering on my inline 4 yet, but on my twin I stayed on the throttle the whole time. I didn't really think much of it till blue said this can apply to the street, but should I be rolling off ony f4i opposed to keeping a steady throttle?I'll obviously get the feel for the inline 4 once I actually get a chance to ride it, but can't hurt to know this kind of info upfront.Thanks trm, I actually haven't done any of the mentioned on the street(body position), but I think I'll start practicing proper body positioning for stuff like this, especially since I wouldn't mind trying out a track day down the road. Hopefully I can get some good fundamentals down in advance. Edited November 29, 2012 by Exarch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted November 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 This is all basics and general terms. For sure can be applied to the street, but you aren't entering turns as fast, aren't dragging knees and you probably won't be getting that aggressive to where you may get out of shape under the brakes.Question to you homos - should we continue the breakdown in the thread or start a second and third one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted November 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 Oh, another question... you mentioned throttle control on a twin being different than an inline 4... I haven't done any cornering on my inline 4 yet, but on my twin I stayed on the throttle the whole time. I didn't really think much of it till blue said this can apply to the street, but should I be rolling off ony f4i opposed to keeping a steady throttle?I'll obviously get the feel for the inline 4 once I actually get a chance to ride it, but can't hurt to know this kind of info upfront.Thanks trm, I actually haven't done any of the mentioned on the street(body position), but I think I'll start practicing proper body positioning for stuff like this, especially since I wouldn't mind trying out a track day down the road. Hopefully I can get some good fundamentals down in advance.What I was referring to would be something you should NEVER try on the street. Realize we are talking a very big difference in speed from track to street. Plus, if you "never let off", you are doing things that are not consistent to what should be going on. Now, if your speed is such that it isn't an issue, that same speed will dictate the same response in the I4.My comments are that the big twin gets jerky from off throttle to throttle applied. That jerkiness is reduced or eliminated by BARELY having the throttle opened. It is very weird at first because you are slightly accelerating into the turn as opposed to letting off throttle and trail braking to apex before applying throttle back on.On an I4, I would chop off, trail, roll on throttle to whatever open level gradually for that turn. Sometimes, commencing the spin to steer the bike or gently to maintain radius and tire wear. It gets all blurry and why I am trying to make it general and we add to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candybluzx6 Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 Second and third. I think it would be easier to find instead of looking through one thread to find a certain part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted November 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 Part 2:http://www.ohioriders.net/showthread.php?p=929924#post929924 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 Here's one...How about smooth body transiton from a quick left to right...or right to left turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmutt Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Can we please get this stickied? Its valuable info imo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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