Bolt guns - any personal reviews?

[kawi kid]

My vote for entry level is the savage with accutrigger. For a starter gun that you are going to shoot tons and tons or rounds to get the fundamentals down with you can't beat it. When you get those skills honed then I say move to a 700 chassis so there are more options to expand and upgrade. I have a 10 series in 243 but it has a light barrel when I'm creeling lazy ill pack it around to ground hog hunt instead of my longer range ar.

All of this is just my opinion and wtf do I know anyway lol

[fizzer]

I'll second the savage with accutrigger, hard to beat them for accuracy at the price point. I have a 12 LRPV and it shoots really damn well when I do my part. For your range you could get the 10FP-SR, or you could go with the 12FV. Either way you're going to want to spend more than the $100 leftover in your budget on a scope. I think there are also some savages that come in combos for around $500, but the scopes are probably shit and I don't know about the rifles. As many say, buy once cry once!

[imprez55]

You mention a budget but I am not sure what all needs to be contained in it. I would strongly advise following flounder's advice. I will go a little against the grain here in my recommendation to meet your budget though; I think the Stevens 200 would be ideal. It is the cheaper line of the Savage which has been recommended here plenty, but it will be at budget with the rifle alone (same with any rem 700 action rifle). OTD it can be had for $300, then you can spend some money on nice optics ($200-$300) and then money is left over for rings, base, optic covers and bipod/sand bags and you are at $700 even.

Edit: Quick search brought up this: http://www.snipercentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=36355

Edited December 5, 2012 by imprez55

[flounder]

I guess it depends on what you will be using/wanting the rifle for Flounder, plenty of great "shooters" using much cheaper rifles and optics out there than the latter with great results.

Not disagreeing with the above comment at all. Just wanted to make sure the reader understood that a lot of the components mentioned there were custom. I wasnt trying to say they needed those setups at all.

I see so much money that "I consider" a total waste of money being spent on high end rifles and optics, unless it is for competition or bragging rights. Do snipers spend vast amounts of money like that on their rifle and optics, compared to what some civilians spend?

Actually there is a substantial amount of money that goes into military "sniper" rifles. Remember, its not just about the components but also the effort, and time required to screw those components together. (Gunsmithing time/equipment.) Do some google searches on M40's for sale and I think you will be surprised at the cost.

I have a good friend with some serious high end shit when it comes to long distance rifles and optics, and that to me takes some of the fun and challenge out of it.

^ Really, Takes the fun and challenge out of it? This makes no sense to me. Ive never met anyone that was a shooting enthusiast that said, "That was so much fun, I love missing my target." Maybe Im confused by what youre saying.

Of course I am a cheap ass and always like the best bang for the buck. My rifle would be for hunting only, but I can see how money can easily be spent like water with all the goodies and options out there. Hell.... some of the snobbery that I see on AR forums and 1911 forums blows my mind.

Again, Im not saying you need the most expensive equipment. You can get into it for a reasonable amount. I just posted that link because the question always seems to get asked "what are the best using" That is all. The Savage, Rem700 and the Howa are perfectly capable setups and should not be discounted in any way.

Edited December 5, 2012 by flounder

[flounder]

THIS, I am sensing....

I'll check it out and promise to keep my absurdity to a minimum

I wont disrupt the harmony of the pros with my boundless idiocy. I'll be sure to keep my moments of rifle retardism here for you to pick apart; exposing my obvious, yet self proclaimed, lacking knowledge in all things affordable-entry-level-bolt-action:rolleyes:

In all honesty, and no deliberate sarcasm.....I do appreciate the insight and site link

Really no worries.. Like I said, its been a helluva 2 weeks. I wasnt trying to be an ass really. Just trying to point you in a direction that could help better and give some fair warning to help you avoid some things others have run into by not knowing better and asking questions that I know would get you chewed out.

[Mojoe]

I have a Ruger American and am very pleased with it. I bought it for deer hunting with my Dad in Vermont, and to do some distance shooting. I'm not on a SWAT team, I'm not a hired gun, so this rifle covers all I need. I comes with an adjustable trigger and the weapon is very accurate for one at this level out of the box. It's a hunting gun, so no heavy barrel needed and after the 4th round you will see a difference in impact if you fire it somewhat quickly.

Personally, if you are going for a long barrel bolt weapon, go with a higher caliber like .308 or 30 06. Smaller calibers are too limited to be worth your while and you might find yourself wanting to upgrade sooner than you thought.

[Radio Flyer]

I'd be looking to get a Savage Arms or a Remington 700 in .308 if I was looking for a bolt gun that could shoot at a distance.

Most savage rifles come with the AccuTrigger now as others have stated and both would be a good platform to build on.

[walther_gsp]

I'm researching as well as asking here and a few other forums, so there's homework being done - I don't solely rely on opinions cast here, just like to throw personal input into the mix from experienced shooters. I'd inherited a Rem 30.06 bolt that was primarily a shelf ornament, but I did shoot it as a teen - it was traded off a few years ago for something more home defense oriented. Other than that piece, I've little clue as to what I'm getting into.

Researching gun shit here is a terrible idea. The ratio of good advice to bad isn't favorable.

[Pokey]

We all have opinions, especially experts and folks that really know their shit. Seriously.......I was just "trying" to say that maybe some folks spend more money than they need to, when spending less could possibly give the same results or damn near it.

[Helmutt]

It will be hard to beat the Savage and/or Remington/Winchester for what you want to do. Price and performance. As said earlier this year, you will be able to make modifications and improvements to the Remington, but the Savage is more limited to performance changes.

My vote for entry level is the savage with accutrigger. For a starter gun that you are going to shoot tons and tons or rounds to get the fundamentals down with you can't beat it. When you get those skills honed then I say move to a 700 chassis so there are more options to expand and upgrade. I have a 10 series in 243 but it has a light barrel when I'm creeling lazy ill pack it around to ground hog hunt instead of my longer range ar.

All of this is just my opinion and wtf do I know anyway lol

I'll second the savage with accutrigger, hard to beat them for accuracy at the price point. I have a 12 LRPV and it shoots really damn well when I do my part. For your range you could get the 10FP-SR, or you could go with the 12FV. Either way you're going to want to spend more than the $100 leftover in your budget on a scope. I think there are also some savages that come in combos for around $500, but the scopes are probably shit and I don't know about the rifles. As many say, buy once cry once!

You mention a budget but I am not sure what all needs to be contained in it. I would strongly advise following flounder's advice. I will go a little against the grain here in my recommendation to meet your budget though; I think the Stevens 200 would be ideal. It is the cheaper line of the Savage which has been recommended here plenty, but it will be at budget with the rifle alone (same with any rem 700 action rifle). OTD it can be had for $300, then you can spend some money on nice optics ($200-$300) and then money is left over for rings, base, optic covers and bipod/sand bags and you are at $700 even.

Edit: Quick search brought up this: http://www.snipercentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=36355

I'm leaning towards an Axis or Rem700 to get started in distance since I really dont want to add another caliber to the ammo roster but will do so if I get hooked on long range work. Thinking .223 now simply due to having a pile of it already AND because my father and I plan to reload our own for more savings ( He has an Axis ) so its very cost effective for me.

.308 would most likely be my upgrade later due to its popularity and power/accuracy. I just want to keep things reasonable now and .223 will help me do that - plus its a capable round at 200-300 yds which will be my starting point in learning the long range techniques.

I have a Ruger American and am very pleased with it. I bought it for deer hunting with my Dad in Vermont, and to do some distance shooting. I'm not on a SWAT team, I'm not a hired gun, so this rifle covers all I need. I comes with an adjustable trigger and the weapon is very accurate for one at this level out of the box. It's a hunting gun, so no heavy barrel needed and after the 4th round you will see a difference in impact if you fire it somewhat quickly.

Personally, if you are going for a long barrel bolt weapon, go with a higher caliber like .308 or 30 06. Smaller calibers are too limited to be worth your while and you might find yourself wanting to upgrade sooner than you thought.

Thanks Joe, I do like the Ruger American and could be another option later but its not chambered at .223 so to keep at/below $700 total budget for now to get me shooting, I'll probably go with a Rem or an Axis ( Howa was a 3rd choice since the pkg deal is at my limit budget wise, but read good things ) to get me prone, cheaply.

I'd be looking to get a Savage Arms or a Remington 700 in .308 if I was looking for a bolt gun that could shoot at a distance.

Most savage rifles come with the AccuTrigger now as others have stated and both would be a good platform to build on.

My father loves his Axis, so that and low price are major considerations. He and I splitting reload costs are another decider for the smaller caliber too. Eventually I may go bigger but to get things started, I'd rather stay with what ammo I've got in the safe.

Researching gun shit here is a terrible idea. The ratio of good advice to bad isn't favorable.

I dont agree, there's quite a few here that really know their gunshit, bad advice here is typically sarcastic in nature or just personal preference.....the good outweighs the bad so far on this thread.

We all have opinions, especially experts and folks that really know their shit. Seriously.......I was just "trying" to say that maybe some folks spend more money than they need to, when spending less could possibly give the same results or damn near it.

Logic dictates that I definitely need to start out cheaply, but in Flounders defense a fully outfitted M1 or AX338 would be tits to have!

[r1crusher]

Here's something to consider. The Savage model 12 I have is in .243, but it can fairly easily be converted to .308 with a barrel change (I'd have to look again but I think the bolt is usable also). It's just a barrel nut to loosen and swap it out.

So, one gun with the features you want and can go the next step when you want.

Tom and I talked about it in length a while ago. He seemed knowledgeable enough...

[walther_gsp]

I dont agree, there's quite a few here that really know their gunshit, bad advice here is typically sarcastic in nature or just personal preference.....the good outweighs the bad so far on this thread.

There are quite a few gun owners here. There are far, far less experienced shooters.

On this thread, it hasn't been bad in terms of bad advice.

[walther_gsp]

Also, to directly answer your questions...

The AXIS isn't worth your time unless you plan on selling it when you need something more.

While the Remington 700 action is better, I would go with a Savage. Savage is your choice due to low entry cost, and the ability to upgrade barrels without a gunsmith. You can get a new barrel in .308, .260, etc.. by a barrel change and bolt swap if you start with a .223. Also, even if you want to stay with 223, you can get a heavier barrel (I'm assuming you are looking at their "hunter" weight options) with a match chamber and a better twist rate. Also, there are lot of good options now for replacement Savage stocks. You can even go real fancy and get an AI chassis or a McCree.

Since you mentioned distance shooting, you want to get the fastest twist rate you can find to stabilize the heavier bullets when you start reaching out there. Many varmit guns have a 1/12, I believe most of the Savage do 1/9 and the Remington SPS tactical does 1/9. At the very least, get a 1/9 as it gives you the ability to use up to 69gr bullets. You'll want a 1/7 twist eventually if you are looking at shooting the 77gr smk or some of the 80 or 90 gr vld bullets (note you will be loading past mag length so this may) make your gun single feed depending on your mag system.

A hot 77gr load (think 556 pressure vs 223 pressure) will get you to 1000 yards on a good day. A 223 pressure load with an 80gr vld will probably be better. I have a buddy that likes to shoot his 223AI with 90grainers at 1200yards just to show people it can be done.

Kevin makes a good point in that if you start with a .243 you won't need to swap bolts if you switch calibers, at least for certain ones that don't need a magnum boltface.

I know you are looking at their package deals, and I'm not up on the price difference, but opt for a varmit setup in the package vs the standard weight barrels.

Edited December 5, 2012 by walther_gsp

[walther_gsp]

Also, since I'm in such a swell mood today, let me know what price you find for the package you are looking at and I'll see if I can't get you a better deal.

And yet another thing, look at the Stevens 200. It is a Savage action and you may be able to get the base rifle cheaper.

[walther_gsp]

We all have opinions, especially experts and folks that really know their shit. Seriously.......I was just "trying" to say that maybe some folks spend more money than they need to, when spending less could possibly give the same results or damn near it.

The problem lies in when folks who know their shit suggest something, others cry foul over the cost. Scopes for instance. If someone recommends a scope that costs over $200-300, all these guys who have never used anything more than cheap 3-9x go nuts.

[r1crusher]

WOW! Has hell frozen over!?!?

I got a little kudo from Tom! Here I thought he disagreed with everyone.

[walther_gsp]

WOW! Has hell frozen over!?!?

I got a little kudo from Tom! Here I thought he disagreed with everyone.

No, just wrong people. It's not my fault the only time you have been right that I've witnessed is when you are parroting information I gave you a year ago.

[r1crusher]

Right is right ya bastard. Just passing along good information even if it came from you.

[Helmutt]

There are quite a few gun owners here. There are far, far less experienced shooters.

On this thread, it hasn't been bad in terms of bad advice.

Gotcha, I guess I should've mentioned that "knowing their gunshit" actually meant rifle knowledge vastly surpassing my own which is probably most here.

So I can definitely see your point -- hopefully I'll have the experience and vocabulary you do someday, but until then it's going to be a severe learning curve for me.

Also, to directly answer your questions...

The AXIS isn't worth your time unless you plan on selling it when you need something more.

While the Remington 700 action is better, I would go with a Savage. Savage is your choice due to low entry cost, and the ability to upgrade barrels without a gunsmith. You can get a new barrel in .308, .260, etc.. by a barrel change and bolt swap if you start with a .223. Also, even if you want to stay with 223, you can get a heavier barrel (I'm assuming you are looking at their "hunter" weight options) with a match chamber and a better twist rate. Also, there are lot of good options now for replacement Savage stocks. You can even go real fancy and get an AI chassis or a McCree.

Since you mentioned distance shooting, you want to get the fastest twist rate you can find to stabilize the heavier bullets when you start reaching out there. Many varmit guns have a 1/12, I believe most of the Savage do 1/9 and the Remington SPS tactical does 1/9. At the very least, get a 1/9 as it gives you the ability to use up to 69gr bullets. You'll want a 1/7 twist eventually if you are looking at shooting the 77gr smk or some of the 80 or 90 gr vld bullets (note you will be loading past mag length so this may) make your gun single feed depending on your mag system.

A hot 77gr load (think 556 pressure vs 223 pressure) will get you to 1000 yards on a good day. A 223 pressure load with an 80gr vld will probably be better. I have a buddy that likes to shoot his 223AI with 90grainers at 1200yards just to show people it can be done.

Kevin makes a good point in that if you start with a .243 you won't need to swap bolts if you switch calibers, at least for certain ones that don't need a magnum boltface.

I know you are looking at their package deals, and I'm not up on the price difference, but opt for a varmit setup in the package vs the standard weight barrels.

I'd actually prefer a bull over a lighter weight bbl, even though I don't plan to send 100 rounds an hour down range. No plans to hunt with this gun, so additional weight isn't an issue - just have an interest in a long range piece at this point.

Think I'd like the tried and true actions of the 700, and I especially like the fact that there's a plethra of options and upgrades available for it, but as you said the Savage is great for starting out and even for seasoned shooters on a budget.

I'm on the fence between the Rem and Savage, and keep telling myself to go cheaper to leave more funds towards better optics etc, but I'm still making my pro/con list of both so I'm not quite ready to commit just yet.

Thankyou, and thanks to all for the input so far - wish I had a lot more cash to invest and buy more than one to really experiment

[Helmutt]

Also, since I'm in such a swell mood today, let me know what price you find for the package you are looking at and I'll see if I can't get you a better deal.

Awesome news, I'll be in touch

[shadyone]

If your father has the axis thb why not get a savage and see what you like best big it's the axis trade up for next to nothing

[Helmutt]

He's bringing a couple of the Savage's up from Bama in a couple weeks so we can get some range time in and see how I like them. His patterns have been shrinking pretty good, his 100yd bulls are sharing holes so he wants to step it out to 300yds. His Savage is a .223, with reloads he said his scope zero'd for 100yds is still zero'd at 200, so I'm sure I'll be happy enough with this little caliber for a while.....and the way he's shooting it seems he can teach me some things too - it's gonna be a merry Christmas afterall

[Pokey]

The problem lies in when folks who know their shit suggest something, others cry foul over the cost. Scopes for instance. If someone recommends a scope that costs over $200-300, all these guys who have never used anything more than cheap 3-9x go nuts.

A wise shooter friend of mine made a very good point to me recently, he said "buy a decent gun, then spend a bit more for some good to great optics". A decent rifle with good ammo is very capable, the optics is what really changes the game.

[kiggy74]

For an entry rifle you can't go wrong with either the savage or rem. My experience with savage was a 10 fcp which was dead nuts accurate, but had some quality issues requiring it to go back to the factory.

A brand that hasn't been mentioned that also deserves some consideration is Tikka. They make some great entry rifles as well.

[Helmutt]

Well, it looks like a friend of my father is looking to sell his lightly used ( 50rds thru it ) Savage .223 with bipod, scope, case, and 15 boxes of good reloads for $300. Cant pass it up at that price AND its identical to my father's gun. He was asking if there were any good deals and his buddy said he'd make me a good deal, and THAT he did. He's toting it up from AL in a couple weeks, so I'll check back in once I get it - thanks everyone for the input and helpful advice!