Oil change frequency?

[smashweights]

Do you guys usually change oil yearly or at a particular mileage? The new Duc had it's 600 mile oil change July '11 and has about 1400mi on it now, debating changing the oil now or waiting til 3000k. Oil's nice red shell advanced full syn through the sight glass.

[Helmutt]

I swap my filter once a year, and oil is sometimes twice each year depending on mileage. I've always been a synthetic fan, and I change it every 2k or so and filter every 4k. Everyone has their own ideas on intervals and oil types though. I typically do my filter change at the end of the season, so come springtime its ready to go.

[smashweights]

Yeah, that's what I've typically done on the R6. 3k or end of year, but the Duc only has like 800 miles on the oil that's in there right now, so it kind of seems like a waste.

[ReconRat]

Yeah, any oil is ok until it gets dark or looses viscosity.

Oddly, I still swear I can feel when it needs changed.

Sort of a crunchy feeling when I shift.

Any where between 4 times a year and once a year for me.

Obviously a full syn doesn't need changed 4 times a year.

But if I had a lot of blowby that darkens the oil quickly,

I'd probably switch to dino and change more often.

And yeah, changing right before Winter parking is a good idea.

It removes corrosives that would sit there all Winter.

[TheBrown57]

I do it every 5k with rotella T.

[ReconRat]

I do it every 5k with rotella T.

I tried Rotella T. It got "crunchy" shifting way too soon. Not impressed.

But it's still oil and it worked. I'll say that.

crunchy = not smooth

edit: 800 miles on the current oil? I wouldn't change that.

[Tpoppa]

I follow the manual. I may change sooner if I've been riding especially hard.

[Helmutt]

Me neither, at 800 its fine unless it is dark. Any condensation in the pan will evap your 1st ride out in the spring. All is good, just personalize the bike over the winter and ride it when the weather cooperates to your liking

[smashweights]

Me neither, at 800 its fine unless it is dark. Any condensation in the pan will evap your 1st ride out in the spring. All is good, just personalize the bike over the winter and ride it when the weather cooperates to your liking

That's what I was thinking. Just wanted to get some second opinions on it. It's nice and clear/red in the sight glass as it stands now.

[mello dude]

The only way for sure to know if your oil is ok or not is to get it tested. Blackstone Labs does that kind of work. I've seen tests at 4k were they said the oil needs to be changed now, and 8k where they said they oil could go for another couple thousand.

It comes down to your riding style how it affects the oil you use. I havent done the test but I would like to take a data point and see if I can go a bit farther or even find out I'm better where I'm at now. (I go 3 to 4k)

[max power]

And yeah, changing right before Winter parking is a good idea.

It removes corrosives that would sit there all Winter.

Really? I was always told to wait until spring as the oil would collect moisture as it sat over winter.

[jschaf]

I change oil & filter every 4k with Amsoil. The owners manual for both my Honda's says every 8k & the Ducati's says 7.5K. Oil turning dark is not an indication that it needs to be changed. The filter can only remove particulate matter down to a certain size. Oil is designed to hold the smaller particles in suspension without damaging the engine. I have sent my oil to Blackstone twice after the 4k change. This oil was always quite dark but the report came back saying that it would be ok to go farther on that oil. I ride my bikes once a month (6 weeks max) so I don't worry about seasonal oil changes.

[Pokey]

Love oil threads.

[smashweights]

What are you paying for these oil tests?

[jschaf]

$25

[jschaf]

Love oil threads.

Why for?

[Tigerpaw]

Love oil threads.

Me too. Thought smashweights was trolling...

[Pokey]

Why for?

Because we are all experts.

[smashweights]

$25

Might as well just change it for that kind of money!

[ReconRat]

Really? I was always told to wait until spring as the oil would collect moisture as it sat over winter.

It will do that, if it's changed or not. Moisture gets in every time the engine cools. (Or air temps cycle hot and cold.) Not much, but it will have a bad habit of collecting in one spot and trying to corrode metal. Moisture is easy to remove. Cook it out by riding the bike.

Old oil will have a collection of carbon, acids and contaminants held in suspension by the detergents and additives. Opinions differ, but it's still corrosive and it's in there. It's about the only reason to change oil anymore.

Other than that viscosity thing...

edit: And yeah, I still put fresh cheap oil in for the Winter, and change it again in the Spring with the good stuff.

Unless I'm lazy, and/or don't have many miles on the current oil change.

[ReconRat]

Oil testing is indeed the proper way of determining an oil's quality. But I'm going to have to say that a dark oil isn't an indicator to keep it either. Small particulate just means small abrasion. Sort of polishing the innards, I guess. If it's just a viscosity test, that can be set up at home. Flow rate through a calibrated orifice at a given temperature for a given viscosity index. If I'm thinking about testing the oil, I spend the money on changing the oil. What oil testing will do for an engine, is tell you if there is a failure of parts going on in there where you can't see it. The amount and type of metal failure can be seen and measured. Turning the old oil filter in for testing, is an even better method.

Some of the newer filters, have a secondary filter of finer micron filtration. Exactly what that means, I'm not quite sure yet. They are still fairly new, and some say it starves the engine by blocking the flow. I'm using them, and haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary. It's a filter.

A proper filter design will bypass all oil rather than shut off flow, so starving the engine of oil is not likely. Depending on the design, I wouldn't want the finer part of the filter causing an early bypass either. So don't know yet. Would be most impressed by a dual filter media with a dual set of bypass capabilities. I have not seen one of those for bikes and cars yet. Aircraft yes, but not cheap.

Yay, it's Winter time. We're talking oil here.

[ReconRat]

The filter inspection can be done at home. The filter media gets spread out, and you're looking for shiny metal, either aluminum or steel. The filter media should be ashed to get to the metal and quantify/qualify, but I think the message is there if the metal is there.

The tool looks like this: about 40-80 bucks at jegs, summit, newegg, amazon, aircraft supply...

http://www.efficient-mileage.com/images/oil_filter_cutter.jpg

Edited December 9, 2012 by ReconRat

[mello dude]

Might as well just change it for that kind of money!

I dont think I would do it on a new bike, its still in break-in mode.

[TSB67]

Really? I was always told to wait until spring as the oil would collect moisture as it sat over winter.

Basically what Recon said, moisture in clean oil doesn't hurt a thing, and evaporates as soon as the engine is up to temp. Moisture in dirty oil mixes with combustion byproducts and forms corrosive acids. I change the oil before winter storage, and that oil is just fine to run in the spring.

The tool looks like this: about 40-80 bucks at jegs, summit, newegg, amazon, aircraft supply...

I just bought a big-ass pipe cutter (3"?) from Harbor Freight for much less.

http://www.harborfreight.com/no-3-pipe-cutter-5983.html

On a side note, I ran the cheap Honda GN4 in my track bike and changed it every two track days. It came out looking as clean as it went in, but it ran out like water. My theory is the transmission actually sheared it under constant high speed high load. Maybe actual viscosity loss, maybe just my imagination. Do the oil tests report viscosity or just contaminants?

Edited December 9, 2012 by brn6604
add link

[ReconRat]

...Moisture in dirty oil mixes with combustion byproducts and forms corrosive acids...

...I just bought a big-ass pipe cutter (3"?) from Harbor Freight for much less.

http://www.harborfreight.com/no-3-pipe-cutter-5983.html...

...Do the oil tests report viscosity or just contaminants?

Yes. I should have been more specific and said internal acids form from combining the water with the combustion contaminants that get in the oil. It's also the reason guys will say don't just run the engine for a few minutes occasionally in the winter to try and charge the battery. Something we've probably all been guilty of. It has to warm up completely, and probably as long as possible. And it won't charge the battery at idle. My shop manual says charging starts at 3000rpm.

I wondered about a cheap pipe cutter. Wondered if the one I have is big enough. Probably not. And I could use a cheap bigger pipe cutter anyway. I will pick one up next trip to harbor freight. I'm going to start cutting open my filters again. Cutting open a filter is fun. Recommended for every one that likes to make a really neat mess.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/motorcycle.php

Here's some motorcycle sample reports. Yes, viscosity is reported. From reading the sample reports, it looks like two main sources of wear on an engine. One is low viscosity, which can be oil diluted by fuel. And storing an engine with old oil in it, which allows moisture to create acids which cause corrosion. The killer is letting old oil sit idle for years.

Yes, high RPMs in a motorcycle can chop up the oil's viscosity really quickly. I've seen it happen in a very few miles. It shouldn't. If an engine does this, start looking for a better oil, or how the fuel is getting in to dilute the oil.

Smell the oil that's in the crankcase or drain pan. It shouldn't have a strong fuel smell. The viscosity can be roughly judged by how it flows off the dipstick, or when it drains.

Modern oils are way better at holding viscosity in a motorcycle than what was available thirty years ago. Some motorcycle oils are a lot better at holding viscosity than others, but that's still going to be a personal decision.