"Obama asks Military Leaders if they will fire on US Citizens"

[AWW$HEEET]

http://www.infowars.com/nobel-peace-prize-nominee-obama-asks-military-leaders-if-they-will-fire-on-us-citizens/

either very fucked up that someone made this up, or it is true and obama is actually doing this, and it is still fucked up.

[Exarch]

The whole no warning shot raises an eyebrow (Geneva convention) but as far as American soldiers being able to fire on us citizens isn't very shocking. I mean come on dude, look at cops, if they are in danger they are willing to fire on us citizens, so why should the military be any different just because they are in American and not Iraq?

[AWW$HEEET]

i dont claim this article to be true, before the shitstorm ensues.

but yes, your oath does say to defend against enemies "foreign, or domestic", fwiw

[robhawk]

The whole no warning shot raises an eyebrow (Geneva convention) but as far as American soldiers being able to fire on us citizens isn't very shocking. I mean come on dude, look at cops, if they are in danger they are willing to fire on us citizens, so why should the military be any different just because they are in American and not Iraq?

While I was deployed to Iraq our rules of engagement strictly forbid warning shots. You also did not shoot to wound, only engage to kill.

[wht_scorpion]

What the hell you really think Biden doing right now getting backing from other country's to attack us when theirs a up rising

[Cheech]

http://www.infowars.com/nobel-peace-prize-nominee-obama-asks-military-leaders-if-they-will-fire-on-us-citizens/

either very fucked up that someone made this up, or it is true and obama is actually doing this, and it is still fucked up.

infowars = made up derp to stir up stupid people so Alex Jones can make money on link traffic.

[baptizo]

Makes you wonder why in Article One of the US Constitution, Section 8 (Powers of Congress) the militia is not maintained vs.a standing army as our Founding Fathers intended.

If this were the case, you would have the citizenry actively involved in protecting the Republic and there wouldn't be a chance in hell of something of this nature happening.

"To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;"

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;.."

Throw in the The United Nations Rapid Deployment Police and Security Force Act of 2001 (House Resolution 938) and we could have foreign troops on our streets.

As a former soldier and NCO, I know that I nor the men I served with would have followed through with any such order. NFW.

[kiggy74]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

[baptizo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

Thanks, that is the one I was looking for earlier and was having a brain fart at the same time.

[ReconRat]

It also does not apply to the active or inactive organized militia of a state.

It also does not apply to the unorganized militia of a state should the state call upon them.

Both can be used as powers of the state for affairs of the state at the discretion of the state.

edit: And I see this is on Jim Garrow's facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/jim.garrow.1/posts/10151209214442015

Edited January 24, 2013 by ReconRat

[ReconRat]

Ok, I just read (PDF) US Army Field Manual FM 3-19.15, Civil Disturbance Operations, and I don't see the hysteria.

Official US Army web based copy here.

This is the same basic training regular troops had to take if they were on call for riot control. Or not, I did riot control and never got the training. It probably didn't exist back then. Most of it is for operations off shore at the direction of the United Nations. (Or the protection of US territory or property.) In part, it is for operations in the continental United States, in federal actions to protect Civil Rights. Also at the request of a State, like in a natural disaster. About the only thing I see, is how the federal troops should respond if fired upon.

So, moving on to DA Civil Disturbance Plan 55-2. Not finding an authorized copy, but it appears to be a DA supporting document for the mil-spec above. It outlines US Air Force support. It didn't help that it was limited distribution.

Let's try Department of Defense DIRECTIVE NUMBER 3025.12 - Military Assistance for Civil Disturbances (MACDIS) A matching DoD document that authorizes the aspects of the mil-spec. Control of forces remain under direction and control of State authorities. Primary responsibilities are with the State's National Guard units. Action requires organized or unorganized violence that the State would need help with. Not much to see.

Trying Department of Defense DIRECTIVE NUMBER 5525.5 - DoD Cooperation with Civilian Law Enforcement Officials. Definitions and outlines penalties for violation of "Posse Comitatus". Notably includes the following:

E4.1.3. Restrictions on Direct Assistance. Except as otherwise provided in this enclosure, the prohibition on the use of military personnel "as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws" prohibits the following forms of direct assistance:

E4.1.3.1. Interdiction of a vehicle, vessel, aircraft, or other similar activity.

E4.1.3.2. A search or seizure.

E4.1.3.3. An arrest, apprehension, stop and frisk, or similar activity.

E4.1.3.4. Use of military personnel for surveillance or pursuit of individuals,

or as undercover agents, informants, investigators, or interrogators.

There is also a separate directive for the District of Columbia.

It didn't help that some of the documents were limited distribution, and had the code name "Operation Garden Plot".

Just not seeing it. Only usable in WTF SHTF conditions. And requires organized or unorganized violence uncontrollable by the State.

BUT: There was the Whiskey Rebellion, and that war with Utah that the US pretty much lost. Plus other little actions, like intervention on Federal land at Wounded Knee.

[Uncle Punk]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army

[ReconRat]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army

Absolutely. I shouldn't have forgotten that one.

Also:

In 1781, most of the Continental Army was demobilized without pay. Two years later, hundreds of Pennsylvania war veterans marched on Philadelphia, then the capital, surrounded the State House where the U.S. Congress was in session, and demanded their pay. Congress fled to Princeton, New Jersey, and several weeks later, the U.S. Army expelled the war veterans from the national capital. In response to that experience, the federal district directly governed by the U.S. Congress,[3] Washington, D.C., was excluded from the restrictions of the Posse Comitatus Act which forbade the use of the U.S. military for domestic police activity.

Edited January 24, 2013 by ReconRat