i-Zapp

Anybody else game for some mid-week track fun next week?!

Zack and I will be there on Tuesday, probably riding I group, but looking for A bump???

Weather looks very good for both days.

the 'rebound' damping theory is pretty good... with the bike cornering the suspension is partially compressed, and if youre on the gas and suddenly stop cornering (like when making a large direction change) the front end would will suddenly decompress and if the rebound damping is too light it may even be enough to cause the bars the wiggle as the front gets light. for sure check the steering head for tightness but i'd crank in a few clicks of rebound damping.

 He was pitted across from us. Was a good looking rc51.

actually the bike didnt look bad at all, considering all the commotion. Glad the rider was ok - it seemed pretty serious at the time. He run turn 1 wide?

Try forum2014 or forum14

thanks! Two of us signed up for I on Monday. Me on a black Aprilia Tuono, and Zack on my black CBR600 (#123). See ya there!

I emailed them and they agreed to allow me to reschedule , with a 50 dollar reschedule fee

i pm'ed you. i might be able to help you out.

is there a coupon code? the one i tried (25RIDING14) is not valid.

1:47 may be approaching the slower times for a twilight, but there are people who are running WAY slower than that...and I'm not talking about smaller displacement bikes.  If you are comfortable with the track, can reguarly get in the 40's and are fine with being passed at pace on inside and out it won't be a problem. 

this is accurate. last time we were in the 48-52 range and having a grand time, and def not the slowest. never heard about getting sent home for being too slow. maybe for riding over your head and being a danger to others.

we are shooting for the 23rd. prefer the full day, more leisurely schedule.

I'm currently signed up for Sunday the 25th:)

Me and Zack are in, him on my 600 (gulp) and me back on the Tuono.... unless I can score a replacement between now and then. :>)

we had the opportunity to demo some Legends cars today at the Beav, courtesy of Cometic Gasket (theyre selling Legends now). They rented the big track and let a group hit the track for a few sessions each. pretty sweet deal.

Both my son and I managed to dip into the 1:13 range, but there's probably a whole lot left - cold tires, lack of experience with the car, somebody ELSE's car, etc. Very interesting and a whole lot of fun - especially being able to screw up here and there and it not causing a red flag. Driving a car - very forgiving, relatively speaking.

The screen shots below are a comparison between Zack's 1:15 lap time on his 250, compared to the Legend car. Since the lap times are not too far different, it's not surprising the speeds are close. Also, (not shown) the lateral g's are pretty darn close too.

video-

first half of track

second half of track

i've pondered the bike vs car thing too. Some other things off the top of my head, for novice weekend racers...

* the effective turn radius is much wider on a bike; you can start out wider, come in tighter, and run it wider

* power to weight: car= 350 / 3500 = 0.1 and bike = 120 / 600 = 0.2, so bike has double the accelerative capacity

* even though bikes have a fraction of the tire contact patch, it all comes down to the friction coefficient, and the rubber isnt all that different between cars/bikes. they'll both generate about the same lateral acceleration. however getting the bike tire up to optimum temp is easier.

the downside is the ability to recover from a slide isn't as easy. 8>|

I'll let you know more after this weekend - i'll be testing on four wheels at the Beav.

12k miles, new tires, new battery this year. Capable track bike, comfortable on the street, and perfect for hoolying. Essentially stock, except for the cored stock pipes and fuel controller. Also has sliders (untouched).

$4900. Located in Mentor.

forgot to include model year: 2012

• Original owner, bought brand new
• Title in hand
• 2k easy miles on odometer, lol
• All original factory bodywork saved and bubble-wrapped – perfect condition; black factory color
• Hot Bodies race bodywork, painted with two-part acrylic enamel (not rattle-canned)
• Woodcraft clip-ons
• Woodcraft rear sets
• EBC brake pads
• GP shift, with modified countershaft sprocket guard
• Full Leo Vince Super Corsa exhaust, dyno’ed and jetted
• 3 track weekends on Pirelli track tires, 0 miles on OE street tires (stored)

Guaranteed straight and true, ready to race.
$3500 for package with stock stuff included, or $3000 in race trim only

Spare fresh motor also available. Fresh top end, with degreed cams. $500

now that was a great race, beginning to end!

I think a 250 would be a PERFECT starter track bike.

http://www.motoseries.com/old/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2139

spoiler....

Congrats to Riders Discount, Eslick, and fanchoice.tv - would have liked to watch in real HD on my tv instead of my laptop, but beggars cant be choosers. Too bad that Disalvo and Westby went down midrace, it would have been an awesome final lap!

There's nobody local to Ohio who does this? I don't really want to have to pay to ship my 1pc and jacket...

I ended up shipping my 1pc to Lizzy in VA for about 11 bucks via FedEx. At least I know its getting done right.

Need to get some road rash damage attended to before the season starts. Been using a local shoe repair shop, but not really impressed with the work so far. Any suggestions for local to Lake County? I've got some time and can ship if need be.

we used one for about the half the season last year on the kids bike, along with a iPhone based Harry's Lap Timer. For the money, IMHO you're WAAY better off with the HLT...

The biggest difference is that although the HLT can give you instantaneous speed and G's everywhere on the track,the GPX can give you the additional channels of data like throttle position, engine speed, gear position (calculated by rpm and speed, or input with a sensor). But considering that the HLT only costs about 30 bucks (its a phone app), you have to justify those additional channels for the extra 400+. For me/us, just understanding how to benefit from basic lap analysis was plenty to do without the complication of adding the other stuff.

Another big difference is that with the HLT you can jump off your bike after a session, and immediately inspect your laps, versus having to plug into a laptop. There is some data available on the little LCD screen, but nothing at all like the HLT. Makes routine analysis a pain in the ass.

After the "new car smell" wears off on your several hundred dollar toy (mine is a loner), you're left with a cool gadget that you really have to think hard about how its actually going to improve your lap times especially when it comes to the extra channels... what do you do with all the data???

For us, if you can put down a fast lap and use that as a reference lap later, then you can see exactly what part of the track you need to concentrate on to get back to that speed. But as a tool for becoming faster without a reference, that's much trickier. Not as easy as saying "hey i need to go faster here" since not only is it easier said than done, but how do you know the bike/tires are capable of that?  A cool feature of the HLT is that if you are riding with buddies that also have it, then everyone shares their laps via bluetooth. Pretty cool.

i'd be happy to share screen shots of the phone screen or laptop software if anyone is interested. killing time till the season opener!

Road Atlanta next month, Nov 9 and10

who's that with? their site doesnt list it.

http://www.roadatlanta.com/events/track-days#motorcycle-track-days

Yah it's healthy but we're preaching to the choir. I think the take home messages are that riders need to be screened by the trackday org before advancing (done by STT more so than MS), and that no matter what group, there will exist a potential for a speed differential that needs to be handled with caution (STT stresses with specific rules MS not so much). If folks don't belong in a group there should be a discussion with that rider and/ or the org.

Just my "too sense"

ok i think we beat this death. see you at the track, next year.

But, as OSU stated and was correct about, there are a LOT of "A" riders that shouldn't be in that group.  It's always been an issue until the companies started doing pace rules.  Take the scenario where 4 guys go to the track.  3 are advanced riders and OK.  The 4th guy is really a mid pack "I" rider.  BUT, he wants to ride with his buddies.  He thinks he will ride with his buddies...  The buddies leave the guy and he is left running in a group well outside his ability level and gets in over his head often.

 

Happens all the time.  So, the idea is that the "A" group is able of handling the passing and level of riding as seen or believed to be seen in the "A" group.  When in fact, there are several guys running at a pace they shouldn't and it becomes a safety issue.  Not only on examples like the closing speeds, but when the true "A" level riders are trying to pass and believe that the rider in front of them is an "A" rider and passes as such.  Only to find out that they are mid pack "I" and they tangle...

 

It's something that has been going on forever.  Happens regularly and is part of the sport.  If anything, it teaches riders to manage traffic and that can be a great thing.

I dont mean to be argumentative, but in your example, that mid-pack Intermediate rider's abilities SHOULD have been vetted by the trackday organization before he hit the track as an A rider - i hope that actually doesn't happen that often. The premise to being an Advanced rider is predictable, consistent machine control, not necessarily race-pace speed. The presumption is that there is a level of comfort and confidence that comes with that that precludes getting spooked when being passed,  at least during normal trackday "this-aint-a-race" passes. I would think an Advanced rider should be able to pass a mid-I group rider without blinking an eye and not have to stuff him or endanger "getting tangled".

As i've admitted, i'm one of those bottom-feeder slower than shit A group riders. Somebody's gotta be. I sometimes get the impression that the A group is a racer-only group of elitists that dont appreciate anyone else crashing their party. (no pun intended!) But the reality is that the I group is huge and the fringe of that group WILL trickle into A. You crazy fast dudes just need to realize you have to share the track.

The groups are fine.  The issue is that when you have a self evaluation system, you get guys that "think" they fit into a group when they do not.

Getting back on topic here, re the difference between MS and STT - this is a good example of how they differ. Motoseries seems very lax about which group you sign up with. Like you said, it's a self-evaluated qualification. STT on the other hand required that we get paced (individually) by a control rider / ridign coach, and only then were we awarded an A sticker. And STT was VERY fussy about passing in I group - like a full wingspan clearance on outside passes (6' really?!), and no passing control riders until you get waved by. A little anal if you ask me, but I think MS could stand to be a little more regimented too (like "there are no passing rules")..

i appreciate the feedback Brian, believe me - the closing speeds are def a concern and something that i've struggled with. I guess my rationale is that i'm more comfortable to have a handful of Advanced riders pass Zack with a relative closing speed of 60 mph, versus a whole crapload of not-so-advanced (Intermediate) riders trying to do the same at  maybe only 30mph. And i agree, 4 groups bad idea.