DerekClouser

Please explain the recent changes...??

 

Self Defense is one of the "Standard Defenses" to all crimes that are not Strict Liability, and it nullifies the Mens Rea (Guilty Mind) that is a required part of the prosecution.

 

I think you are referencing Castle Doctrine wherein there is a rebuttable presumption that a person who breaks in to your home or car without permission is there to do you harm.  This places more burden on the prosecutor as they now have to prove that you knew you were not in danger, rather than you proving that you were.  I believe the threshold is still preponderance, though...

 

Florida goes one stop further and creates the "Stand your Ground" law which states that you do NOT have the duty to flee, and can meet deadly force where and when it is used against you.  This is not relevant in this trial, though, as Zimmerman claims he had no opportunity to flee.

Yes, you are exactly right. I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as you are in the topic, therefore, I'll trust you are right.

Does the fact that he followed TM around against the words of the operator have any bearing on the case? I guess in the sense if he was 'looking for trouble', but if I leave my car keys in the car and someone steals it, does it make my fault?

And he should along with everyone in this country because you should be innocent until proven guilty but we all know that's not entirely how the system works at times.

Agreed, I was merely asking because he was only posting the testimonies favoring Zimmerman. I was curious what was going on for the prosecution.

(I added numbers above to organize my responses)

 

 

1) I maintain two different opinions on these types of trials...  Did they do it?  and Will they be convicted? 

 

I vacillated at first as the evidence rolled in sporadically.  Anyone who has a CCW has a different understanding of deadly force self defense than most.  We understand terms like means, motive, opportunity, duty to flee, duty to not escalate.  I recognized early on that in order for the shooting to be ruled self defense they would have to clearly demonstrate that Z believed M was able and willing to use deadly force and that Z was innocent in starting the fight.

 

This is a complex case with many facets - it's like a fractal, the closer you look at individual points the more those points break out into complex sub-points...

 

So, based on the evidence so far I have yet to see anything that refutes Z's version of events.  I currently believe he is factually innocent - but am open to new evidence.   I also believe that he will be found not guilty based upon the progress of the trial.

 

 

2) There are two different standards of evidence at play.   The prosecution must prove Z guilty "beyond reasonable doubt".   That is a very high standard.    Z must prove he was acting in self-defense "By preponderance".  Which means "is it more likely than not that he was defending himself."     The two questions for the jury are:

- "Who caused the physical fight?"  Did Z do something to make M think we was under imminent risk physical harm.  Following is not enough, it would have to be something like Z getting within fighting range and taking a fighting posture.  If the jury believes Z caused the physical fight then they may conclude that Z is not able to use deadly force, therefore the self-defense claim fails.

-  *IF* the jury believes that Z did nothing illegal and that it was M that caused the fight, then they have to ask if it was reasonable for Z to fear that he was likely to die or suffer serious injury.

 

I can't speak on Florida law, but I know in Ohio they just modified CCW and self defense to innocent before proven guilty. In Ohio, DA's now must prove you aren't acting in self defense rather then you having to prove you were acting in self defense.  Anyone know if this is the same in Florida?

Roughly translated as "I'm not looking at the evidence, but I am making a conclusion regardless.

 

If you don't care enough to look at the evidence then your opinion on guilt or innocence is worthless.

 

I have been watching the liveblogs of the trials and some of the testimony live.  

 

 - 2 witnesses put Z on top

 -- One of those said she knows it was Z on the top because the person on top was bigger and she guesses M's size from the 12yo pic on the news.  M was actually 5-6" taller than Z, making M the bigger person, making her testimony support Z instead

 -- One said Z shot martin in the back three times.  This is obviously false, rendering her testimony useless.

 -- One witness claimed to have not formed an opinion have any bias on the case, yet she signed a petition to "Prosecute the murderer of TM".  Her testimony is now highly suspect.

 

- One prosecution witness definitely put Z on the bottom in an MMA "Ground and Pound" based upon "the guy on the bottom had lighter skin and was wearing red" and said it was Z who was calling for help

 

- The responding officer testified that Z said; "I was calling for help but nobody came to help"

 

- The phsysican's assistant said that whatever Z did to stop his attack probably saved his life

 

- Rachel Jeantel testified that she heard the scuffle start, but that was 4 minutes before the fatal shot - she cannot account for those 4 minutes.  Z's story is that he went looking for a street sign or address to tell the police where he was but couldn't find one for minutes.  A neighbor witness said there are no visible signs or street addresses near where the attack happened.

 

- Z states he stopped following once the operator told him to, but then the operator twice asked him where M was, where he was going.  Z stated he go out of the car to find a street address but couldn't find one until he walked to the next road over.  Once he told the operator the address he walked back to his truck and M attacked him from behind.

You appear to have a non-guilty attitude towards the case. Is there anything in any of the testimonies that hurt Zimmerman? I'm just curious as the other side of the spectrum.

All race aside, on the topic of the trial at hand.

The rule of thumb is  beyond all reasonable doubt.

Through all the testimony I've read and heard, it appears the testimonies of the prosecution side has failed to completely be truthful or able to be verified. This inheritently should conclude reasonable doubt. Whether he did it unwarrantly or did it in pure self defense, I don't think you can find him guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Therefore, in defense of everyone, he should be acquitted.

As for all the racial talk, I won't add to that fire as it will get us nowhere in society.  I follow a general rule of thumb in that topic. It's the bully principle, if you don't let the bully think what he is doing is bothering you, he'll eventually stop.

PS. I love chicken, watermelon, and rap music. I also like swimming. What does that make me?

Welcome.

Just read it through it's entirety.

Even though he didn't want to continue living, I'd have been happy to see him keep going with his philosophy on other topics if he could have put his mind to it.

Ride in Paradise Clayton.

I think it's supposed to rain tomorrow if that affects your decision making. If not I'd consider riding with ya.

Welcome. (kind of)

yea I've definitely had days where I personally wasn't feeling it and have slowed down and been a lot easier. I've always been good at doing that but I think when it was all these other idiots that were out of my control is when I got to the point where I felt maybe today is just not my day to be riding

Yea we were at the winking lizard talking about the OsuMJ losing her wallet and ID on the way down to GAP. We kind of had the same idea that if that happens, maybe that's someone saying to not go on the ride.

We both agreed that we would have not gone down on that trip due to that superstition. Glad everything went well but sometimes you gotta trust instinct.

That's funny cause Rob (330racing) and I were talking about that the other day at Winking Lizard.  Absolutely, there are times when you don't feel it and those are the days you should be especially cautious or just not go out. Riding can be too unpredictable and have too many variables to not be fully into it. 

I know quite a few police officers, they usually let bikes off if they stop solely because they want bikes to stop and not run. They know how hard it is to keep the throttle under control.

Usually speaking, as long as you keep 2 wheels on the ground and aren't doing dangerous things around others, they are pretty friendly provided you show them respect when they stop you.

Of course repeatedly getting warnings will probably warrant a ticket every once in a while.

Speaking of tire plugs - I had a flat on my old bike and was advised to replace the entire tire (was still relatively new with < 1k miles on it) - Are plugs safe on a motorcycle or just safe enough to get it home and replace the tire?

I heard this on Rover's Morning Glory. Absolutely ridiculous scenario. Hopefully the 6 year old kid will be ok.

If you are still in need of help in resizing I can help you if you'd like.... or you can get a free program like gimp and resize it yourself, up to you.

I drove down it yesterday, wasn't nearly as bad as a week ago. Still grooved pavement, but that doesn't really bother me. Occassional stones/debris but manageable.

As the saying goes, give a kid a crayon, he'll draw a dick, give an adult a laced mushroom, he'll rip off his dick.

AS OsuMJ can attest, also make sure all your pockets with your vitals, (wallet keys, etc) are closed before riding.

Also don't forget your ear plugs or headphones - 7 hours of wind noise can really give you a headache and affect your hearing.

I wish I could, but I'll be in Punta Cana

Edit for troll face.

I'm not the most mechanical savvy guy but I wanted to learn how to maintain and fix my bike so I didn't have to pay a mechanic. I needed to replace my stator one day. After googling the process and asking some local friends, I decided to give it a go. Took the old stator off, replaced the gasket and as I placed the new stator in, I never knew it was magnetized so I put my fingers in behind to support as I got it closer to make sure it lined up and as the magnets took over it slammed my fingers in behind the stator. My father and a riding friend both watched and found it hilarious.

The first thing out of my father's mouth. "Oh ya, it's magnetized".

So did his bald tire cause his wheel to turn into that turn or did bad riding skill cause him to steer into that turn?

His inconsistent throttle control caused his bald tire to lose the front end. Once you lose the front end, your wheel will turn and then you lowside.

My kinda people! Got my frame sliders and tape works wheel graphics done today. What a pain in the ass. The sliders came out better than i expected. Spent a lot of time with the dremel.

Pics or it didn't happen.

I met him at the Epic Ride 2013 as he was in my group. Cool ass dude and his bike is awfully sexy as well.

I have a 98 CBR 900rr.. I'm not sure if I'm doing it wrong or if the clutchless shifting wasn't developed for the bike, but I'll preload the lever, roll off the throttle, but the shifter won't let me shift unless I just very lightly apply pressure to the clutch lever, I don't fully compress the lever, but curious if I was doing it wrong or if my bike is designed this way.

And of course, I always apply the clutch when downshifting (6th gear towards 1st gear).

Any ideas because I definitely want to be able to protect the clutch plates as much as possible and add to my repertoire of skills.

Welcome to the TT. Guys pushing the limits in the Senior on street roads. It bothers me that they always threaten to stop  it because of how dangerous it is, but to be honest, that's what makes the TT what it is. No one is forcing anyone to ride in it against their will and if they choose to do it, they take the risks. As far as the research I've done, most of the danger relies with the spectators. They put themselves so close to the action and then people are shocked if they get hurt. 

Don't blame the race, it's not the races fault for people getting hurt. It's human error.

I do however hope everyone is ok.

Sorry for the rant, just annoyed when they blame the race for being so dangerous and that's why people get hurt. It's like blaming a wild tiger for mauling someone who enters their cage while feeding.

If you have a local shop with Alpinestars gear, try some on for size.  I bought this jacket when I was about 35# heavier, and with room for an extra layer.  

Yea, normally my size is 46 for leather jackets, so probably a tad small.