CJ74U2NV
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Posts posted by CJ74U2NV
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36 minutes ago, MSerfozo said:
1 & 2 - There are no absolutes in virus transmission. You have to think of it as a probability problem. If you wear a mask, you reduce the probability that you will inhale infected droplets. If I'm unknowingly infected and I'm wearing a mask, I reduce the probability that I'll transmit infected droplets. Neither are 100% but the reduction due to the mask is much greater for the transmitter than for the receiver. Since EVERYBODY is potentially a transmitter (and receiver), the transmission will be reduced most effectively if EVERYBODY wears a mask.
3 - The latest CDC statements are referring to aerosolized particles which are much smaller than droplets. There is some evidence that coronavirus can be transmitted by these but it's a much smaller probability than by droplet transmission. The CDC's apparent conflict is the difference between scientists who want to be as safe as possible and government policy to inform the public about what we can reasonably do. It's not reasonable to expect everybody to wear a respirator capable of stopping 2micron particles to make us just a little bit safer. Any time you have a cost/benefit discussion, there will always be a difference of opinion - in this case, the scientists disagree with government policy. Last Friday the CDC released the scientists statements and yesterday the government told them to stop saying it.
If you decide to not wear your helmet and are killed is a crash because of it, that doesn't affect me (much). If you wear your helmet, your chance of surviving is greater.
If you're shedding coronavirus and you don't wear a mask, you could unknowingly kill my Mom and Dad. If you wear a mask, my parents have a better chance of surviving a chance encounter with you.
I respect your point of view on this, I really do. The only thing I'd say is that I see masks/helmet comparison as I should wear a helmet at all times since they prevent brain injuries...period. That's a true statement but not practical. Thanks for keeping it civil. If we meet, I'd wear a mask near you and buy the first round.
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15 hours ago, CBBaron said:
CJ74, your not helping your argument. Most of the conservative members of this forum, including myself, think your an idiot.
Just because some conspiracy nut on FB post a meme does not make it true.You can't have a civil discussion without personal attacks. Go away until you're mature enough to act like an adult.
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16 hours ago, MSerfozo said:
1. The mask I wear is not for me, it's for you. I'm not able to work from home and isolate myself from the world so that puts me at a higher risk for contracting COVID. If I'm asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic, my sneeze, cough, or even speaking could spray droplets carrying coronavirus.
2. If you're not wearing a mask in public, you could, unknowingly, be spreading it to me or some other "higher risk" person that you love.
3. But I believe the science that says that masks DO work.
I numbered things to keep it straight, not trying to make anything else out of it.
1. This is the question/answer I don't understand the most. You wear a mask for me, but it's my responsibility to wear the mask. If I'm wearing a mask and masks work, you have no need to wear one since I'm already protected.
2. As in number one, if they're wearing masks, they're protected if masks work.
3. I respect your opinion on that and have no qualms about it. I just don't think it works as well as some people want to believe. Just today the CDC reversed it's stance on how covid is spread. They say now that what they said before was a complete mistake (6 month long mistake) that should have never been used as a guideline. Some things are even more clear cut for me like helmet laws. Helmets are obviously the smart way to go and I wear mine. But there's been a few times when I'm taking a quick run to the bank or just a quick jaunt and want the air in my face. I should have the right to do that (and I do in Ohio). -
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4 hours ago, Pauly said:
As an American who has never cast a vote for a Democrat for President, I find your "Republicans are free-thinkers" comment quite amusing. You can be a Republican and not be an idiot. I know, because I am not an idiot and I used to be a Republican. However, you cannot claim masks do not work and not be seen as an idiot... because that is an idiotic thing to proclaim. This has fuck all to do with political ideology. It boils down to the painful truth that a lot of America is really, really dense. A lot of of America is really, really selfish. A lot of America is very un-American.
Serious questions:
-If masks work so well, why do I have to wear one if the other person is wearing one? They're protected from my masklessness if they're wearing one.
-If masks work so well, why do we have social distancing mandates or any other mandates? Wear a mask and you're protected.zzzz
No mention of any "free thinking", civil rights, legality, heard immunity, mortality rates or anything else. Just two simple common sense questions about masks. I'm not even asking for evidence to back up your claims because what I really want is a logical and rational explanation for why I should be forced to do something that is otherwise legal to not do and makes no sense to me. Because I really believe that 99% of the masks (really more face coverings than masks) are worthless. I would also appreciate civility and leaving out name calling.I feel like if you want to wear a mask that is fine and dandy. But I should not be forced or shamed into wearing one either, especially if you're wearing one and protected.
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That's a Ruthless comment
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4 hours ago, Tonik said:
No, we wear masks because we want to help protect the weak. We care about others. You on the other hand are a piece of shit that only cares about
6 hours ago, Pauly said:Again... It isn't fear. It's respect for those most susceptible. Not that a twelfth explanation is warranted or remotely effective.
You think I'ma piece of shit...I think you're a sheep that's had a lobotomy.
Shuttering an entire nation's economy over something that has such a low mortality rate while ignoring other things with higher mortality rates makes no sense. Like protecting the obese guy with hardened arteries that won't help or protect himself.
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Because people who are obese, have diabetes, cystic fibrosis, congenital heart disease, cancer, etc... get covid which pushes them over the rainbow bridge. Covid will be listed as what killed them. Not the fact that every time they walk past a graveyard people chase them with shovels. Nope, covid killed them.
Now they were able to keep hanging on because most other things that would have pushed them over the edge were known and they were able to stay away from them. But an otherwise non-fatal disease killed them because they were pretty close to dead anyways. Now if a common cold pushed them over the edge, typically a medical examiner would list complications from ..... and all the underlying symptoms would be listed. Now, it's just covid. In most jurisdictions, medical examiners have the final say on what the cause of death is. If the ER doc says you died from a being choked to death, the medical examiner can change it to covid...like George Floyd. No one knew he had covid until after he was dead, so it was likely a very insignificant contributory factor in his death. A more likely contributing factor would have been the drugs in his system. But this method of listing a cause of death, and the inconsistencies of it, lead to all the disbelief by the non-sheep types.
People don't wear masks because they're afraid of covid. They wear masks because they're afraid of the government. If they were really afraid of covid, they wouldn't leave their house. -
Had this been handled like SARS/Bird Flu/Ebola, where we all lived with no restrictions, it would have been much better. But democrats can't let a crisis go to waste and will do anything to promote their agenda. Now when a viable vaccine is produced, many people will not get it due to the distrust they have for the people driving this pandemonium....er...pandemic.
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15 hours ago, jschaf said:
It's that "herd mentality". You are right in that the Government is lying to people about Covid as tRump is the #1 Government man. If you live in Germany it's not as bad as it is here. If tRump would taken leadership & followed a plan similar to Merkel's we would be looking at 60,000 deaths instead of 200,000. Not using "alternative facts here".
Most of the US deaths are from NY, a dumbocrat run state and city. Most cases period are from dumbocrat run cities. Trump was one of the first to call for travel bans from countries like China, before Fauci even recommended it.
But nice try.
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33 minutes ago, Disclaimer said:
Government is lying to people about covid. It's not as deadly as you think.
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That would be great. I'll PM you my cell. I don't have any plans this weekend that I couldn't meet you around.
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11 hours ago, jbot said:
So you're capable of looking up stuff and believe the info presented on the leftist science site but not the why? How do you pick and choose what to believe of this dastardly leftist science/black magic?!
As for the things that are closed, let's talk about that. Can you do a quick search for "covid deaths nursing home" and tell me what you get? It might provide an answer as to why they might be "closing" anything where large numbers of those susceptible to complications from covid-19 gather in close spaces, they tend to catch it, spread it to each other and die? Do any of those places/businesses on that list sound like maybe what I just described could happen? That's just one way you can figure out why some of these things like closures and restrictions may be happening. And one last time, because I know I told you this before but you seem to ignore the salient points of anything at all: I was not a fan of how the closures took place, and I would probably have favored a strict isolation of those at risk and let those who want/willing to risk it for money/livelihoods sign a bunch of waivers and get to living life with some restrictions. But maybe if I knew the things those leftist sciencey witches at the head of state and federal government knew, maybe I wouldn't? I dunno.
Ok, you keep going on about how you did the research and know the numbers and cited the sources... If you took any of this shit seriously, you would know that just about any peer reviewed health and medical research shows that masks work to reduce the spread of covid (containment of droplets, discussed in the very article you posted) and how the fact that people infected with it can spread it without knowing they have it (asymptomatic spread) and why social distancing is important (reducing concentrated exposure to respiratory droplets) and why we need to keep it from spreading for the sake of those who are at risk (read literally any article breaking down the mortality rates by age and comorbidities). And I asked before, but seriously, look up the mortality rate again. I mean, I know you already did but your chest beating ego just can't handle it, but I just want you to read the numbers and compare it to what you believed this whole time. If you read the data and the science behind the spread and can cite it (except, you know... the parts you had wrong up until now) but you still think masks while in groups in close quarters is just too much damn trouble? What exactly are you reading?
The one who is finally catching up to the plot is you. It's ok to be wrong, we are all wrong sometimes. It is NOT ok to find out you're wrong and yet keep spreading the wrong information while knowing the CDC and every other health resource disagrees with you after dedicating all their resources to solve this thing since the pandemic started. You don't like being told you're wrong by some stranger on a bike forum, fine. I wouldn't believe me either, why would you, so many hurtful words were said. Go ask a doctor or a nurse. Ask an ICU nurse if you should wear a mask. Ask them to explain how masks work or don't work. Email any of those people cited in the CDC write ups or that video I posted showing how respiratory droplets spread during even quiet conversation. What is to be gained by lying to you?
TL/DR
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6 hours ago, jbot said:
Way to address the core of my responses.
Lol show me this magical 100% seal mask that people can feasibly buy and use in public.
Don't move the goalposts, of course there will be restrictions, I'm pretty sure I pointed that out? And tell me what businesses are still closed? Also did you miss the part where I noted that I disagreed with the way the shut down was handled? Get it together.
Seriously, look up the .026 number. It's not that hard to get it right. And you're critically misunderstanding why people talk about the fact that it's so widely asymptomatic and why it makes it so dangerous. Learn. To. Read.
IIRC, the ENVO N95 can present a 100% seal. Those and all the way up to a hazmat suit.
EDIT ON MASKS: Removing and disposing of a mask is more dangerous from a virology stand point than just wearing it around. It's the same for any contamination protections. And if someone spits in your face (or blows droplets in your face) the virus will enter via your eyes which renders the mask useless. But again, if the mask were effective, we wouldn't need social distancing or restrictions/closings for businesses.
I'm not the one moving goal posts. Your closure list can be found here: https://coronavirus.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/covid-19/responsible-restart-ohio/continued-business-closures/continued-business-closures- Older adult day care services and senior centers. (Will be permitted to open Sept. 21.)
- Adult day support or vocational habilitation services in congregate settings. (A congregate setting is defined as a single location where more than 10 people are present in confined space.)
- Rooming and boarding houses, and workers’ camps.
- Certain entertainment/recreation sites.
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Includes:
- Auditoriums, stadiums, arenas.
- Performance theatres and indoor concert and music halls.
- Parades, fairs, festivals, and carnivals. (Junior fair activities at county fairs are permitted with 10 p.m. curfew.)
- Certain spectator sports, sports tournaments, and organized recreational sports leagues. (Skills training, practice, and scrimmages for all sports is permitted. Non-contact and limited-contact sports are permitted. Batting cages, bowling alleys, tennis facilities, and golf courses are permitted to open.)
- Some public and private pools. (Public pools and club pools regulated by local health departments are permitted to open. Use of swimming pools for single households also is permitted.)
I've looked up the numbers and have provided several sources. All I've gotten in return is chest beating egos and irrational backtracking. Right "broseph"?
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11 hours ago, jbot said:
Blah...blah...blah
You're wrong, there are masks that are 100% sealed. Certainly not the bandannas that most people wear which are more detrimental than helpful. FACT
All businesses in Ohio have restrictions. Many states still have "non-essential" businesses closed.
My numbers are from the CDC. You know...that scientific government organization.
40% asymptomatic (and .026% mortality rate) means it's not something worth trying to make activities that are otherwise legal, illegal.
From the CDC again.....
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34 percent of premature deaths from heart diseases, prolonging about 92,000 lives
Heart disease risks include tobacco use, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, type 2 diabetes, poor diet, overweight, and lack of physical activity. -
21 percent of premature cancer deaths, prolonging about 84,500 lives
Cancer risks include tobacco use, poor diet, lack of physical activity, overweight, sun exposure, certain hormones, alcohol, some viruses and bacteria, ionizing radiation, and certain chemicals and other substances. -
39 percent of premature deaths from chronic lower respiratory diseases, prolonging about 29,000 lives
Chronic respiratory disease risks include tobacco smoke, second-hand smoke exposure, other indoor air pollutants, outdoor air pollutants, allergens, and exposure to occupational agents. -
33 percent of premature stroke deaths, prolonging about 17,000 lives
Stroke risks include high blood pressure, high cholesterol, heart disease, diabetes, overweight, previous stroke, tobacco use, alcohol use, and lack of physical activity. -
39 percent of premature deaths from unintentional injuries, prolonging about 37,000 lives
Unintentional injury risks include lack of seatbelt use, lack of motorcycle helmet use, unsafe consumer products, drug and alcohol use (including prescription drug misuse), exposure to occupational hazards, and unsafe home and community environments.
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34 percent of premature deaths from heart diseases, prolonging about 92,000 lives
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40 minutes ago, Pauly said:
Lastly, how much of this bullshit do I have to participate in before one of you old timers challenge me in all aspects of life? That is my MO at the moment. Quarantine makes me twitchy.
If you're that tired of it go away.
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The first paragraph The study concluded that moisture retention, reuse, and poor filtration could increase wearers’ risk of infection.
N95 masks do work, but there you go again with the "in combination with the 6 feet rule".
EDIT: No one wears N95 and no one covers their eyes or other entry points for the virus.Answer these questions please and try to do so without personal attacks. You can be a dickhead in person is you think it's smart:
1. Why do we need 6 feet apart rule if masks work?
2. If masks work, why do we need to continue to shut down everything?
3. Why would you wear a mask or shut down an economy over a virus with a .026% mortality rate?
4. Why would you wear a mask or shut down an economy over a virus with a 40% asymptomatic rate?
5. Why don't we take such drastic measures about things that really are much more deadly?
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3 minutes ago, Pauly said:
I couldn't care less what his political leanings are. If you put "personal common sense" above clinical medical science... you're a fucking moron.
Plus, Wtf does gender have to do with anything? He brought up a topic we weren't discussing because he has no solid ground from which to spew his idiocy. Any first-year psychology student can see through his veil of uneducated hogwash.
I didn't dare say his mask of hogwash. That would have been too easy.
You da man 👍
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1 hour ago, jbot said:
No but really, why do you think the masks don't work? It's scientifically established that microdroplets are the primary transmitter of the virus, and it's established that even simple cotton masks are effective at containing and reducing microdroplets. Seems like a straightforward concept. We don't even need to get all complicated leftist science here hahaha
I"m going to address just the mask first, not the lack of common sense about why people should wear them.
When was the last time someone sneezed and blew snot all over your face? When was the last time someone coughed in your face and sprayed you with spit? I've never had it happen. The virus is so small that most masks don't work to contain it. They might hold back some spit, but the virus will still go though the mask. This is why every "scientific expert" says you have to stay six feet away and wear a mask. Essentially, the virus won't travel more than six feet under normal breathing conditions. Which is odd because if we all stayed more than six feet apart, we shouldn't need to wear masks. And if we wear masks, and/or stayed six feet apart, all businesses should be open.
The exception would be an N95 mask with a nose pinch. But the wearer would need to have no makeup, no facial hair and keep a tight seal around the mask. Otherwise, every time the wearer breathes in, they suck in the virus. However, even with an N95 mask (or any mask), the virus can be transmitted though your eyes. So you'd need and N95, plus a full face shield.Cloth masks are the worst yet that's what most people wear. You are actually increasing your risk of not only covid, but every other communicable disease by wearing one. Don't want to believe me? Here's SCIENTIFIC evidence from MIT....https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-updates/2020/07/do-cloth-masks-work
Now for the common sense part (or lack thereof). The current mortality rate for covid is .026%. That's pretty freaking low. Like really low. 40% of people that get it are asymptomatic which means they don't have any symptoms. Those are CDC statistics. Turns out I am one of them. I regularly donate blood and at my last donation I was told I have the antibodies. I caught the kung flu and it had zero affect on me. I'm an older guy and according to the guberment I should be on a ventilator. If you're in a high risk group, you should be taking precautions. But IIRC, 90% or 95% of the population in this country is not a high risk group. There are so many other things that have much higher mortality rates that worrying about covid just doesn't make sense. Obesity kill way more than covid, but how many fat people are wearing masks yet not losing weight?
If people are scared and want to wear a mask, I have no problem with that. If someone with covid is near you, you have your mask on and will not catch it. But if you need to be more than six feet from them, why do you even need the mask? None of it makes common sense. The curve has flattened but now we have "red counties" to keep the scare alive until the election is over. DeWine is right with you in the trump-derangement syndrome. That's why Ohio is where it is. South Dakota is doing great with no restrictions or closures of any kind.
Further, the economic impact this is having will be way more detrimental to our society that the virus ever could be.
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I find it odd how leftists swear by "science" when it comes to covid but deny science when it comes to gender.
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44 minutes ago, Disclaimer said:
FTFY.
Nope...you broke it. You're a "never Trump" guy. Leave Trump's name out of an argument and you lose all points to your argument.
unOFFICIAL Thanks Trump thread.
in Dumpster
Posted
https://www.gazetaexpress.com/this-is-lake-trump-and-it-is-in-kosovo/