greg1647545532

Not cast doubt. Ask questions, ask for transparency, ask for time and answers.

Potato, potato.

The medical and public health communities have all of those same questions. Their recommendations have changed as they've gotten new information, and they know their recommendations will continue to change, because that's how science works. Meanwhile, people are dying and hospitals are full (again, sadly). So they're going to keep pushing vaccines for a reason.

Everybody involved in these decisions would love more time to do research. Meanwhile, a lot of people are running out of time in ICUs.

You can call it what you want, but nitpicking things here and there in order to justify a distrust of the medical community is casting doubt during a crisis, even if you phrase it as "just asking questions."

Like I said, many are not trying to cast doubt

Many are not, but you sure are. Right? Isn't that exactly what you're doing by talking about Israel, talking about misattributed COVID deaths, etc?

eta: You and half the people in this thread, that is. Vaccines aren't as effective as they say, masks aren't as effective as they say, COVID isn't as deadly as they say, only the overweight and unhealthy have to worry... these are common refrains right here. Post after post trying to cast doubt on the science.

I listened to this argument with a virologist, immunologist and microbiologist about this topic the other day. The short version is, the virus often attaches itself to droplets in your mouth. These droplets can vary in size. Masking helps catch these larger droplets that carry "larger" amounts of corona virus. 1 individual virus cell or whatever doesn't cause an infection. It takes "some" amount to infect someone. Again not a perfect system but it can cut down on the transfer from human to human.

 

If Im wrong on this someone can happily call me out.

That's accurate. And COVID research overturned 100+ years of bad science in regards to aerosol transmissions that dated back to the TB days.

It goes along with the false sense of security. People think they have a mask that they are protected and they don't need to social distance, not go to that event, etc. When in reality, it may provide a sliver of protection, when used properly. Properly includes covering your nose, using in a sterile environment, discarding after every contact, etc. Meanwhile, most people wear the same mask all day or multiple days, touching it constantly, over only

their mouth, etc. That is where the false sense of security comes in and people spread it.

I agree, but what's the alternative? Refuse the vaccine, don't wear a mask, and just say fuck it? The establishment is trying it's best, with some missteps, to convince Americans that all of these components are necessary. And then the "other side" is doing everything they can do cast doubt and aspersions on the CDC, the FDA, Pfizer, doctors, you name it.

Who's doing more harm in that situation? If the false sense of security bothers you, then you should get vaxxed, wear a mask, and spread the gospel of "stacking," to use Kerry's word. Not do the exact opposite.

I agree but as always there are 2 sides to the coin. The guy with stage 4 cancer with 30 days to live may have only made it 20 days because of COVID. But logic tells you he did not die OF COVID. Had he not had stage 4 cancer, he may have survived. Just like without COVID, the Heart Attack may be survivable. At the end of the day, the cancer was the cause. Not the fact the heart stopped beating, the lungs stopped working, or the COVID.

Sure. That's an edge case. What bothers me is the thought that 1) this is a significant enough event that it could affect public policy, and 2) that all of the eggheads, data scientists, and epidemiologists combined haven't considered this in their research and recommendations.

Like... it's not that clever of a thought, to put it a dickish way.

In general with vaccines, it does not cure the problem, it cures the symptoms and makes you an asymptomatic carrier. It reduces viral load to a manageable level. Then those people can carry it to people who are unvaccinated or whose vaccine did not take well or who may have decreasing antibodies. There are many cases of resurgence when a vaccinated individual carries a sickness to an area that does not experience that sickness or does not vaccinate for that and all of a sudden you have a outbreak.

This is an excellent argument for the vaccinated to continue to wear masks.

Israel has administered 14,511,866 doses. That is enough for 80.1% of the population to receive 2 shots. Not 80.1% of the eligible population but, the total population.

Israelis seem to be dying at a much lower rate than Americans. A quick look shows about 10k daily new cases during this current spike, and 20 deaths a day. The US is above 150k daily new cases, and over 1500 deaths a day.

Maybe Israel's high vaccination rate is keeping people out of the ground? I'm sure you'll come back and say that there are other factors, Israel's population is younger, etc. Sure. But this is not the slam dunk against vaccines.

Again, if the masks work, why the vaccine and if the vaccine works why the mask. In addition, the masks they/we are mostly wearing? Surgical masks that state "not for COVID". Only time we go above that is a known COVID case when we use what everyone should wear if they truly wanted them to work N-95 or higher.

I really don't understand how this is a talking point. Like, vaccines are not a silver bullet, and obviously with the new variants they're not even a bronze bullet. They help. Masks also appear to help, including surgical masks. N95 masks help even more. They're all part of the puzzle.

While pedaling this agenda to the public, we are being told if you have 2 or less symptoms come to work, it's okay.

That's fucked up.

I'm stating (not insinuating) that we were instructed to mark incidents as COVID related when COVID had nothing to do with it. To compare it to the Excess Deaths topic, these would be Excess Incidents. They were Incidents that occurred as a result of the shutdown, as a result of our reaction to the Pandemic not because of the Pandemic itself.

Do you know WHY you were being asked to do that? It sounds like a budgeting issue -- track how many incidents/expenses your unit has that you wouldn't have absent the pandemic. In which case, what you're describing isn't unreasonable, although IMHO that's not the best way to do it. I'm not a budget director, though. I'm curious if you know more about it. Of course, this isn't really related to whether or not COVID deaths are over or undercounted.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Rochelle Walensky stated "Not all of those 223 cases who had COVID actually died of COVID," she said. "They may have had mild disease but died, for example, of a heart attack." All through this Pandemic people with cancer, and other illnesses that had predictions of even 30 days or less to live were marked as COVID deaths UNTIL it went against the vaccine agenda and talking points.

I'm not suggesting you've misrepresented anything here, but this quote has been taken out of context all over the place. It's worth considering that even a mild case of COVID could have made an otherwise survivable heart attack a deadly one. I've discussed in one of these earlier threads how all the internet lawyers think about death certificates all wrong so I won't rehash it all here.

Depends. Did he do it in response to someone announcing their loved one passed? Context is crucial.

 

 

 

I don't know how to make the original question any clearer. You said, "play stupid games, win stupid prizes," about things like seat belts, dog attacks, etc. You then berated anyone and everyone who "plays the stupid game" of not getting the vaccine.

 

You also said not getting vaccinated is the exact same as choosing to not wear a seatbelt. I queried as to how that could be true when you have been on a soapbox shouting about how everyone who chooses not to get vaccinated is a selfish snowflake whatever dolt because they put others at risk when not wearing a seatbelt really only puts the person choosing to do so at risk. It's just a piss poor comparison but you dared anyone to question it putting their morals on the line.

 

You said, "you don't object to what I said, you only disagree about the context." You also said, "Well.the covid vaccine is free, it's backed by science, and it's proven to save lives. Just like seat belts. So to me there's no difference. Play stupid games and win stupid prizes. Die from covid because you didn't want the free vaccine, you only get my baseline compassion."

 

Well, that's fine and dandy but wayment...you ALSO said you got vaccinated and told others too for the sake of others.

 

SO, how does someone not wearing a seatbelt which really only endangers them correlate to someone not getting vaxxed which, as you proclaim, endangers everyone? Are the "the exact same" or aren't they?

 

Damn, it's a good thing I'm away from home for work and STUPID bored tonight. The chuckles have kept me going.

Thank you for clarifying and responding.

Yes, fair point. Not getting vaccinated is way more of a dick move than not wearing your seatbelt for the reason you stated. It's also way less of a risky move for most people.

The comparison is not 100% perfect. Withdrawn, your honor.

greg..you have a major hard on for my posts..I don't know if I should be afraid your a stalker

or you just like conversing with me.

 

There is a major difference in what we stated..I gave a what if..you basically said fuck you if you get covid

I do have a hard on for your posts, it's true. I think it's because you're so earnest most of the time. Like, looking back through this thread there's a lot of political pot-shots, but we all make lazy posts from time to time. Generally speaking, you post in good faith, and that encourages me to respond.

Yes, you said what if, but I don't think that changes the tone that much. Even you said it was crass. Can you imagine saying that to a grieving widow?

"What if this is just survival of the fittest."

"What if you just got the damn vaccine instead of hypothesizing that maybe there's nothing we can do in the face of nature's power."

I literally explained it in the questioning of it.

 

Sorry I offended you by asking a question. Next time I'll just call you names instead and nothing will come of it. Seems you prefer to communicate that way.

You did not offend me. I'm still willing to engage with you in good faith if you can rephrase your question in a way that will help me understand what you're asking.

eta: Are you suggesting that there's a difference between "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes" and calling the unvaxxed dolts? If so, that was not much intention. Not getting the vaccine is a stupid game, and dying from covid is winning a stupid prize. Not wearing a seatbelt makes someone a dolt. Anyone thinking that they're somehow unique enough to not need a seatbelt is a snowflake.

Does that help? My intent was to make those analogous.

lol. What a douchey reply to someone trying to pay respects to another members loved one.

Mallard's father passed in November; he's mentioned it in several threads that 10phone2 has participated in, sometimes even on the same page, but I guess he missed it. Call that a douchey response if you want, but personally I wish you would direct your insults towards 10phone2's continued efforts to push a lie that COVID only kills the overweight and unhealthy. He's been spouting that nonsense for over a year, despite ample evidence to the contrary. Don't you think that's a douchey thing to do?

No. Read it all again. I don't know how Y'ALL feel when you say it's the same then contradict yourself.

 

I'm prob just a dolt though. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Me: "What do you mean in regard to this? Isn't it contradictory?"

 

Greg: "I dunno. What do you think?"

 

Well, that pretty much sums up this entire thread.

Oh, I see. I've read your post again and it's clear as mud.

Well this isn't the first time you've accused me of contradicting myself, and I've not understood how what I've said was contradictory. Last time I asked in good faith for you to explain it so I could respond properly and you did what you do where you just make a smug comment and go away.

So if you want to clarify what you mean, I will respond in good faith.

If I knew I wouldn't have to ask but now that you've also admitted you don't know I believe I have reached a conclusion.

You don't know how you feel about comparing seatbelts to vaccines?

1st off most importantly sorry to hear about your dads passing. not going to comment besides that out of respect to him.

A better way to respect Mallard's dad would be to stop parroting this lie that only overweight and unhealthy people are dying. Tell everyone you know who's anti-vax about this guy you know whose dad was totally healthy and died anyway. And then encourage them to get the vaccine even if they're also healthy, so they don't suffer the same fate.

CSo not wearing seatbelts is no different than not getting vaccinated but if you choose not to wear a seatbelt it's, "play stupid games, win stupid prizes." If you choose not get Mr. Pokey it's, "you're a dolt snowflake."

 

Maybe they aren't all that similar and some folks just want to correlate the two. I dunno. I'm not arguing it. I'm just trying to sift through all the shit and find the golden corn kernel. I would think that "y'all" would take the opposite approach since not wearing a seatbelt puts you and you alone at risk while not getting vaccinated is being said to be wrong because it puts others at risk.

 

So...which is it? Perhaps I'm just not tracking.

I dunno. What do you think?

What if this is natural selection..a dawin theory..mother nature trimming down the species so the others can/will survive.

 

We are taxing the earth's resources and can't keep doing it.

 

Some who take the shot are still dying so there is that. Also those who aren't taking the shot are dying..yes in larger numbers.

 

I say let's nature trim the weak and the rest live on. I know this sounds crass.

I truly cannot believe you called me out for saying, "Just don't expect me to give a shit when you or your loved ones end up drawing the short straw," and then almost immediately afterward you say that maybe people drawing the short straw is just nature culling the weak.

Do you even self aware, bro?

The difference is I did my part by getting the vaccine to try and prevent the weak from dying.

I have no clue. there was a group of moms in our school district that took that approach and copied/pasted the same email to the schools they were at. my wife is karen enough to be in contact with them, but not full karen to follow along. lol.

Church of Karen then. Hallowed be her name.

Thanks.

eta: There was an Air Force Chaplain's aide who posted on r/AirForce how the religious exemption process for the vaccine would work. Short version -- it won't, since virtually nobody will be able to produce the required evidence that they've been practicing a religion that has specific doctrines against vaccines.

My idiot sister has been using a religious exemption for the public school vaccination requirements for 15 years now (she's a full on anti-vaxxer, her covid anti-vaxxing didn't come as a surprise.) Her religion? The very pro-vaccine Roman Catholic Church. I'm sure she has all those same copy/pasted email templates.

I understand school systems don't want to wade into religious wars but it pisses me off that it's so easy to make a complete mockery of religious exemptions.

fappy gonna fappy

Genuinely curious what religion has a doctrine against wearing masks because I've never heard of it but I guess Greg doesn't get to learn things today.

I agree regarding the religious exemption route. we could have taken that route for my girls at school for mask, but didn't.

What religion?

"Hey, I understand you've snuck in my house in the middle of the night and I was startled awake but if you'll excuse me for just a moment I need to get my loaded gun. It's locked up but it won't take long. Stay right there for me, chief."

 

:lolguy:

 

K, bai!!!

Don't shoot the messenger. Locking up bad guy blammos is big bidness

Question on one of them kind of unrelated to the bitch fight going on: keeping loaded guns that aren't locked up...why would you have a loaded gun if it was in a safe or secured some other way? Why not just unload it if you're going to lock it up? Genuinely curious

So you can blammo the bad guys real fast.

the 2nd part of the statement..i guess you weren't able to understand that..let me help you..

"Just don't expect me to give a shit when you or your loved ones end up drawing the short straw." is what you said

LOL, ok. Look, I'm a normal human with normal human emotions like empathy. Everyone will get my baseline of compassion that I give to everyone who shares my species. If you drive without a seat belt and get injured in an accident, you get my baseline empathy and not much more. If you keep loaded guns unlocked in your house and something bad happens, you get my baseline empathy. You beat a dog and it bites you back, you get my baseline empathy.

Like all normal humans I get compassion fatigue. I can only give so much of a shit for people who play stupid games and win stupid prizes. Right? Aren't you the same way? Am I the weirdo for saying that? I don't think so, but tell me with a straight face that you don't agree with everything I just said.

I think the only difference here is that you think not getting the covid vaccine is different from driving without a seat belt. You don't object to what I said, you only disagree about the context.

Well.the covid vaccine is free, it's backed by science, and it's proven to save lives. Just like seat belts. So to me there's no difference. Play stupid games and win stupid prizes. Die from covid because you didn't want the free vaccine, you only get my baseline compassion. Wear your seat belt. Lock up your guns. Get vaccinated.

Peace.

if it takes an online discussion for people to imagine beating your head on a wall or is exhausting... it is what it is. regardless what you decide to do or not do with your own health more power to you. land of the free.

Nobody makes anyone post in the kitchen either. Land of the free.

maybe you were called out for this statement..but I don't know

Need me to Google it for you?