99StockGT

I'm all for revisiting this thread in 2018 I just can't imagine those cars as rare as they are and as well built as they are falling to that level of depreciation. From those of us who own 3/S cars...they tend to break a lot of things which is a large reason their value fell off a table. So...lets move the GT-R aside, what "currently attainable" options are out there? To be had at a decent price, modified without a BA in Computer Science, and "fun to drive". Of course that last bit is personal preference but it keeps people talking

If you paid that kind of money for a 3000, I've got a cherry Stealth I'll sell you tomorrow. Were 3000s and Stealths expensive when they were first sold? Absolutely. There were also a TON of them compaired to the production numbers of a GT-R. You also had several different trim levels that have a HUGE range of prices. How many different trim levels are there for the GT-R? Anything thats front wheel drive non-turbo? What are the production numbers on GT-Rs? Do you honestly see a day when you can get one used in good shape any time soon for mid-high teens? I know what I bought my 92 for in 2001 and unless I'm completely foolish there's no WAY I could buy a GT-R currently for anywhere near what I did, adjusted for inflation of course.

I'll spell it how I wanna spell it! Cameaero! And yes Ryan that's a lot of what I'm saying. 2highpsi...ummm that thing costs HOW much? Super cars aren't included in this thought. I'm talking things purchasable by normal people with normal jobs that don't have a trust fund. The GT-R is an amazing car. But that price range doesn't make it attainable to anyone but people who clear 100k a year. Now as a side comment to that, I'll give a nod to Jones and the rest of the "tech makes it better" crowd because a 9 second GT-R is a WAY different beast than say a 9 second Mustang/F-Body. It's actually car with creature comforts and not just a motor a with a tranny some huge tires and safety equipment. But that's not exactly where I was going with this thread.

Well I won't get into that on this thread maybe I'll start another one for small leaps for mankind. Just saying the raw emotional enjoyment, at least for me, is greater in a car I truely have to control and drive. Maybe that's old folk attitude, but maybe my beard is just dyed and I'm hiding the white hairs. Anywho...what is the go to car these days that normal people can afford, modify, and enjoy that doesn't have a crazy amount of driver assists? I had high hopes for the Genesis turbo...the BRZ certainly has the seat of your pants feel with a grin on your face...mustang and camero though definitely more refined than their earlier family members are still a blast to drive though they definitely transfer less and less of the road to you as the driver. What will be the next '99 Civic SI? Or late 90s F-Body?

Who's to say those of us who still cling to the old ways are wrong? Maybe its our dancing naked in the woods with face paint and a bongo drum that helped the world go round. Oh and kept the water clean and drinkable. Oh and the air clear. Oh and the general population in shape and not morbidly over weight. Not all changes in technology or belief are "better"

So Jones you are telling me that lining up hitting the throttle, pointing it straight and ripping off a 12 second pass with no tire screeching, shifting, clutch work at all is as exciting and satisfying of an experience as managing tire spin, working your throttle, proper clutching/shifting and holding on to dear life while clocking a low 13? Clearly we must come from different schools of driving/thinking.

How many reviews of cars these days make mention of the fly by wire controls? The GT-R has even been likened to driving a video game. There are so many computers between you and the tires it's a completely different experience. If you want to take an example look at the Viper. That thing was a TERROR to drive in its origional form but the boyish excitement from it was awesome, other than white knuckling the entire ride. Now you have that beast with a huge power increase but soooooo much easier to drive. Are you still driving a race car? Sure. But it's much less likely to eat your face. The old car WAS a race car and you better damn well know how to drive it or you'll end up on a stat sheet somewhere. Don't get me wrong, as I have said before, I like those creature comforts as much as the next guy. But in my sedan, or my truck. Not in my plant the foot to the floor rear tires screaming and complaining while bellowing smoke and a pervert grin on my face as I rattle around in a poorly built seat FUN car.

Glad I'm not the only one. Who knows what prompted the car makers to build those crazy things in the first place but we all benefitted from them for certain. Today we have a Horsepower race for sure, with the norm in a lot of cars in the mid to high 300s when just 10-15 years ago the norm was significantly less than that. Want an option from the 90s that had 300 HP+ from the factory how many options did you have? Now you can get it in a 2 door, 4 door, truck, suv, mini-van, motorscooter, etc...

While I'll agree there is a lot of potential in some of the new cars, how attainable are they? With wages barely having moved in the last decade for most people and costs of new cars still going up how attainable are they? What does a fully loaded Mustang GT Convert go for these days? I know what I paid for mine, and adjusted for inflation I look like an investment Guru. Taking the kiddies who have parents money to buy them expensive toys how many younger folk can afford one? What's a new SHO go for? How about an SS camero? Sure the ability to look up how to reprogram a car is easy, just plug in my laptop or hell even bluetooth controlling now is available. But does that give you the same sense of accomplishment that getting dirty in the garage used to? There are a TON of new cars I would love to have. The styling is gorgeous, the comfort is fantastic, the fuel economy is a god send, but they just don't FEEL like the raw automobiles they used to.

Sorry to double post, Brian I applaud you and wish you luck in your project. The new cameros are awesome cars, great platforms and can be a ton of fun. Stick with it and I hope it gives you that childish smile on your face a lot of us have felt with street beasts over the years. I'm totally cool with change, no more carbs with black magic? Fine with me. No more tracking 100 vacuum lines to fine one small hole or crack, great! Doing your homework especially in the internet age of today is SO much easier, even compaired to the early 2000s it's a completely different era. Which is both a good and bad thing in my opinion. Kinda miss the days of standing around kicking tires BSing with and learning from those in the area who have built similar projects, or knows a guy who knows a guy who did that. Do I really sound as old on this thread as I feel like I do? Oh and Erik, STFU! /rude

Geeesammy your last paragraph is really getting to the heart of my meaning. You used to be able to toy/tinker/play/tune your car with nothing but a simple mechanics set you could pick up at a hardware store. For the younger generation who's just starting out in life and wants to get ahold of a car they can drive, have fun with, modify at home what do they choose now? Most cars with any decent feel/fun factor start in the what mid 20s now? What kid coming out of high school and getting a job or coming out of college can afford that? And once they do get ahold of it they need to get all the techno wizardry to tune it. Now you're in what another $2000, give or take? Time to do homework and figure out all the ins/outs/options of that software package you just bought. And do your point on the power machines of the 80s and 90s. When you lift the hood on a Z or a 3000 and can barely see the ground don't you love it? Tubes and wires going everywhere, all wheel steering and active suspension? Why in the world would we want that? But its AWESOME that someone somewhere thought hey lets throw some crazy awesome features at this car and make it unique. Have I replaced a tranny in my Stealth? Absolutely. And 2 T-cases. But when I first started getting into modifying it I could do little bits here and little bits there without a check engine light coming on with some random sensor flipping out retarding my timing down to a sputter and making me want to take all the parts back off. Was that thing hella complicated and over engineered? Without a doubt. That's why with the rare exception it went to a shop that actually lived and breathed (you know who you are) those cars. But had I been slightly better at my own work I'm sure I could have ironed out the kinks. To TooSweets point, I miss it too. Were they a joke and hilarious at the time? Totally. I will remember for the rest of my life the night F&F came out and everyone walked out to the parking lot with a puffed out chest and prideful in their ride. After that yes every kid in a Civic would rev at me in my Mustang at EVERY light or throw a honk sequence at me but it was great! Auto parts stores were crawling with people modifying their rides, hanging out in the parking lots to brag and swap stories. Do I agree that modern cars come with more power stock than just about everything we built back then but are they as fun? Do you feel as proud? Do I enjoy driving a project car around that I've spent years building/testing/tuning to get to 300 WHP versus just going out and buying something that beats it? Absolutely. Will I get SMOKED off a light by some woman who bought a car down the street that has 4 doors and gets 35 MPG (or more) highway? Absolutely. Do I care? Not at all.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the advancement of technology I really do. The incredible difference in power between my Mustang in '99 which was decently fast for its time and the new modern 5.0s is incredible. Hell modern mini vans and sedans have more power and acceleration! I'm all for being responsible I really am, but it feels like a lot of the smile is being engineered out of modern cars. Like Fubar said, when something gets turned off or disconnected and it kicks into limp mode it doesn't make you feel good. What is the $$$ value to be able to just romp on the gas slide the ass out around a corner or shamelessly burn out in a parking lot without little lights blinking at you and shutting off your fun? How many cars now are going to "by wire" controls so you can barely feel the road in your steering/breaks/transmission? It's why I don't own anything more modern than a 99

Hope that didn't sound too much like I was preaching from a soap box(it did) I just needed to vent. That's exactly my point Fubar. Glad I'm not the only one quietly raging behind a computer screen

I hate these types of threads but I have to make it. Been bouncing around in my mind for weeks so maybe getting it out on paper(screen?) will help. Humor me as I get this out of my system, I'm sure others have thought the same thing. Will the golden days ever return? I look at the cars being modded/upgraded/raced these days and for the most part with the exception of some exotics it's generally the same stuff we have been working with for years. Those "Fast and Furious" days are still around, though with less underglow lights. There are still droves and droves of 90s Civics, Preludes, Eclipses and Talons. 240s, Supras, 300zs, and 3000 GTs...many of which it almost felt like the manufactures were begging us to work magic on. The late 80s and all through the 90s gave us some awesome cars. Generally not overly complicated, modifiable, built to take some solid abuse and keep on ticking. On top of all of that they were generally not terribly expensive to buy. Think we'll ever see that again? So many cars are put together with sensors managing everything, with engines tweaked to a razors edge for efficiency and fuel economy. Rear wheel drive is almost a bad word these days, transmissions adding more and taller gears to increase MPGs (8 speeds?!) Rant could go on forever but....just a thought

http://i1323.photobucket.com/albums/u590/Midwestmodels/Flyer_zps772bf7cd.jpg

Finally got this all arranged/approved/paid for so it's time for a car show! Hopefully Mother Nature will allow spring to come or its going to be one cold cold day standing around in a parking lot but here are the specifics. Actual flyer will be posted once the thread is live. When : April 14th 10:00AM-3:00PM Where : Advance Auto Parts Bethel Rd. 2070 Crown Plaza Dr., Columbus Ohio 43229 Who : Come one, Come all! Why : Celebration of all things Automotive Cost : $5 per vehicle Spectators FREE Proceeds from the event will go to supporting the local Ohio Food Bank / Meals on Wheels. All registrants will receive a free "Swag Bag" care of Advance Auto. There will be drawings for gift cards throughout the day, as well as free swag from some of our sponsors. Oh and did I mention free coney's with any purchase from Skyline during the show!? Buy a drink...get a Coney! ... buy a Coney..get a Coney! We will also be providing trophy plaques "Best of Old School/Best of New School" as well as a best in show. Questions comments suggestions please feel free to post, if you are interested in attending the show please PM me so I can start building a list. Hope to see some CR folks there!

I wonder...do they make DUB Edition for STI front grills/air dams?

Not that there's a whole lot of times you'll have to truely use all that power no a dig against a tree or another car but it IS nice to know you can do it without snapping something. Looks like a pretty clean car too not too over the top. Look forward to seeing it rolling around town.

Glad you recognized it as low quality AZ mesh...not the high quality stuff some of the rest of us sell Love the car, always been a fan of these even with the crazy motor lay outs. How does she hold up out of a dig? That's always been one of the most terrifying/enjoyable parts of an AWD turbo car for me. Super fast out of the hole and feels fantastic....as long as nothing goes snap or boom. :gabe:

Buuuuut it doesn't rumble right!

Example right there for all the people who push their cars. While it may be a hassle to install safety pieces as well as go fast pieces, you won't end up as an oil stain on the road. Can't imagine what it feels like to roll something at those kinds of speeds, what's the G force and impact a body takes from something like that?

Except that ad is BS Already responded to it weeks ago from multiple email addresses and got no response. Just someone fishing unfortunately.

If only they weren't so COMPLETELY hideous. Seeing a lot people pushing these into the 12s and even 11s but the dyno numbers for these mods just don't seem to add up. Most folks with these kind of mods are pushing 300-350 at best...though I guess the weight is something to consider..plus those incredible 80s aero packages!

Keep in mind with that "old school" mainframe stuff we put a man on the moon, built atomic weapons, reinvented several fruit...there's potential there if the right people are properly funded. Maybe he's eyeballing the next strain of super fruit his military has invented that will save his people and be exportable...and can be harvested into petrol fuel!

From what I'm seeing some of the tuning/engine management work seems to be a bit of a challenge. Mostly all old school stuff that people haven't done in in years, unless you swap into newer ECUs and such which kind of defeats the purpose of "Old School" I see people pretty consistenty running them into some solid 1/4 times, most of them running some type of T3/T4 hybrid and not building much of any boost till around 3k...curious how these stock width tires hold on with the 20+ lbs of extra wooooosh