jhaag

lol

alright, guys. clearly, the misuse of technical writing on my part while arguing my stance totally negates my point. lesson learned. i'll try to do better next time i have a differing opinion of the horde.

as you were....

she was injured by the fall. it could happen with a baton too. crack to the knee with a baton will drop someone, especially a methed out 80lb woman

true, but she would still be conscience and able to break her fall even given the possiblility of falling backward. i think the most previous point, and i think a good one, is the possible effect of the voltage/amperage of the tazer on brain and heart function, which could never be known from perp to perp and seems to be played down due to the small magnitude of probability and no regard given to the possibility, which is more dangerous with regard to the well being of the not-yet-convicted felon.

You missed the point by a mile. It is supposed to point out that you recover from a taser in seconds unless there is a freak accident. A baton blow usually results in bruises and ongoing pain and often results in the need for medical treatment and recovery after the fact.

This is not about two people literally facing off taser vs baton.

understood. call me too-quick-to-reply on that one.

however, and not for the sake of arguing, i think the original point was that, by definition, you cant account for a freak accident nor rule it out, whether for arguments sake or not. the tazer has no way of knowing the effects the jolt will have on the tazees nervous system, while a blow the knee doesnt hold the same potential, short of a blood clot to the heart, i guess. knowing the potential the shock could have, both neurologically and with regard to leaving the tazee rendered helpless and prone to gravity realted injury, i would say the argument is that it should be a last or near last resort; especially, in this case, since the perp was within arms length and poorly restrained.

You and I will get together...you with a tazer, and me with a police baton.

You tazer me first, and after I recover (just a few minutes), I'll hit you in the knee with the baton.

I'll bring you a beer in the hospital while they're rebuilding your knee and we'll discuss how each option worked.

Deal?

Ha!

so, after admitting that he would take you down first (negating your argument altogether), he's supposed to be stupid enough to just stand there, let you recover by not tazing you again, not take your baton, not restrain you and allow you to bash his knee all to prove you're right? jeezus, i dont even know the guy, but i'm pretty sure he's smarter than that.

way to think it through....are you going to hang him in the town square after he finishes his beer, too?

i have an issue. today it suggested i be friends with Cheech.

i blame Ben and Paul.

The new engine appears to have the 7900 miles on it that the seller claimed. Everythings I..excellent shape. I've seen some with 15k and have the issue and some with 100k and no issue. I think it comes down to the rider. The original owner/builder of this bike spent a lot.of time on the track, along with very spirited rides. I'm pretty mellow for the most part. I am still going to fix the issue with my other engine and keep it as a spare, incase it does happen. I can then swap back, and fix the issue.

word. good luck.

Can someone change the name of this thread to engine swap? I will start a new thread when I fix the other engine. Thanks

i was just reading through this and wondered if you sere still going to change the gears.

anyway, and not to be a killjoy, might the new engine have the same problem, at least eventually? and is there anything you can do to the new one to prevent it form happening again, before you install it (better parts)?

So you're not saying she shouldn't been stopped, just that you the taser is the wrong tool? A valid opinion. Much more so than those who think it was excessive ONLY because it ended badly.

I personally extend the police much more leeway in keeping themselves safe in situations where the tasee acted in a manner that requires the officer to go hands-on so i'm of the opinion that the taser is better than a fistfight.

exactly what i was trying to convey. but, it didnt seem obvious to me that she really posed much of a threat to him with regard to his safety; nor would he had to pancake tackle her. i will concede that seeing the videos of cops after a chase or during a stressful situation, letting their emotions get the best of them and beating the shit out of someone who is trying to comply has gotten a little old. clearly not the case here, but she shouldnt have been too much trouble for him. besides, and i didnt really want to go this way, it has always been my un-researched understanding that most PD's require some sort of physical condition upkeep and this crack whore shouldnt have even taken him 10 steps to catch.

anyway, not to take away from what LEO's do for us, i realize it can be a tough job. its easy to watch a video and critique.

He weighed 3x what she did. If he tackled her to the ground and she still hit her head then people would criticize him for that instead. Even if she would up with lighter injuries such as broken bones etc then he'd people would scream "brutality" just the same. Those injuries are much more likely.

He testified that she was outrunning him for we can tell how much closer he is at the police station door, so we hangs to take his word on that. I don't agree that she was in reaching distance.

i'm not interested in arguing hypotheticals, my issue is with excess. i certainly wouldnt even comment on her freakishly being injured when taken down in a reasonable manner; nothing short of a stiff breeze would have taken down that bird and sometimes shit happens. i didnt see his decision as reasonable. he was so very clearly within arms reach of her when they came into the frame which would mean he was right on top of her just before. she didnt outrun him, he slowed down to position himself for the shot/was too busy reaching for his tazer to catch her. its two very different scenarios falling when tackled and falling when being shocked. i just think his chosen means were excessive, regardless if she ended up paralyzed. its with that that i have a problem. was tazing her necessary or just easier?

did she deserve what she got? well, i dont feel thats for me to decide, we have a court system for that....

What should the officer have done differently?

well, she looked to be well within his reach. he looked to have to slow down to taze her. he couldnt handle taking her down? i understand she was supposedly on drugs and all that comes with that (lack of judgement/pain/etc), it just looked to me like he just took the easy way out. like i said before, i'm not a LEO and wont pretend to know what its like, but it seems more and more that there is a lack of accountability and responsibility when it comes to the use of force by those sworn to protect our citizens, even those accused of crimes. freak accident or not, to me his actions didnt seem reasonable or justified for the situation.

Hahahaha, this is great too....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaBDA9Gj-C8

i saw that 'live' and about had beer fly out my nose...but, dont worry, not a drop was lost.

I happen to agree with you point but to me the fact is that if you don't put yourself in such a situation then this would've never happened. And the way this country has become, unfortunately my mentality is one of a lack of sympathy

totally agree with your first sentence. but, trying not to let myself feel like your second, although i still do (though, please understand that i'm not judging you for feeling that way). it just saddens me that this has become the general consensus, at the risk of sounding like a bleeding heart hippy. lately, i struggle with the notion of 'us' becoming more 'civilized' at the expense of our own humility.

it vexes me...i'm very vexed.

oh...oh i see. so, this was not open to discussion, just open to agreement.

duly noted.

whatever happened to due process, innocent until proven guilty? i'm not defending the woman, i'm defending our laws and constitution. how did she slip out of her cuffs? it seems to me that the cop did a poor job of detaining her and fell back on his crutch. its pretty disturbing to me to see everyone saying she deserved it. i opine that an arresting officer has a fiduciary responsibility, to the law and those he is sworn to protect, to bring in the accused with some level of respect no matter how disrespected in the process. just because he doesnt want to/cant run down a suspect would leave me suspect to the officers abilities.

oh well, whats done is done...we'll just carry on towards our police state. also, i'm not and never will be a police officer, just my thoughts on the matter.

hate on....

concrete evidence he did it.

zing!!!

Wonder who pays for all those City workers to get him out? I would have left him there and said if your dumb enough to get yourself in the get yourself out.

the city should send him a bill.

I think that's that's the first thing I've ever heard you say that wasn't full of either fallacies or cognitive dissonance. I agree.

lol. come on, now. i'm, undoubtedly, the most reasonable and levelheaded dude you've never met.

fallacies and cognitive dissonance? what can i say, i'm a product of our society.

btw.....thank you?

my question is this: what does "support the troops" or "support the military" even mean? it seems like such a vague statement. what does one do to support the troops? is it a way of saying "support our policy"?

this is the problem i have with it. i wholeheartedly support the troops and the role they play protecting our freedom...i mean actually protecting our freedom;however, i abhor the fact that 'supporting the troops' ends up being political leverage for further preemptive warring and nation building under the guise of 'protecting our freedom'. so, i find it very troubling to say i support the troops when all Washington hears is 'i support what you are doing (policy)'. i believe in my understanding that our nation was meant to lead by example, not by force.

I would SO do that..

its not close to akron, but they seem to have plenty of vacancies.....:devil:

23.4 miles an hour - holy frickn shit!

(Can he catch a football?)

that was speed taken during decel...

1st January 2011: As by end of 2010, the highest speed of human recorded was of 44.72 km/h (27.79 mph), seen during a 100 meters sprint (average speed between the 60th and the 80th meter) by Usain Bolt.

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_fastest_speed_of_a_human#ixzz1meBWhLJl

a couple of friends of mine have done this tour. sounds spooky.