it was a kill but to make a comment "all honda motors are slow right" in a v8 dominated board was asking for the negitive comments. honda motors from what i have heard are strong but take it from someone who has helped build civics and "teggys"..............they are not that great. take a si civic or v-tech integra with intake, headers, and exaust, against a SUNFIRE gt with the same mods........... and the sunflower will take it. and ive done it many times. so there for honda motors dont suck......they are just completly lacking in torque at the "proper" rpm levels and over all. build a real engine. like a old school hemi