Moto-Brian

Yup. Asking can go a long way. Being uptight and feeling you are owed something can actually cause a lot of grief. I suspect if your friend would have asked or told Jig what he was doing, it wouldn't have been an issue... Had it been after asking, next time, have him find me and we'll get it sorted. By the way, were you the guys that were late both days?

I see your point. It's just courtesy and honestly, if it came down to it, the Asian guy got to do something that maybe Jig saw and that could have made him think it was a guy that was going to sell pics... He probably went to Monte and told him what was up and the corner workers were told to not allow that anymore. I understand the whole pro vs. average Joe stuff, but it is principle, I guess... I also think if you do a good job marketing yourself and have great pics, it doesn't matter...

Actually, there are authorized photographers allowed to sell pics at the races. Trust me... Also, it is unique at the races in that an average Smoe isn't allowed access a guy with Press credentials has. Eurotech, VIP Photography, etc. shoot all the time at the AMA and WERA events and they also sell their images to mags and online publications... They also sell to the racers a LOT. They have dedicated sites to buy from, etc... Track days may not have press guys there, but the professional photographer guy is regarded the same as the guys at the races that sell... You aren't going to get the same pic he can from inside the fence at the top of the keyhole if you are up on top of the hill or outside the chain link fence. That's my point... You can shoot like the guy at Putnam from the front straight all day long. You can shoot like Yota did at the esses, etc. But at corner station #10 and from behind like the pic I posted? Nope. They will not allow you to go there. You might sweet talk your way there, but again, if you are caught or it is found out, you need to be respectful and understand you didn't have permission... You can shoot from a lot of cool spots for sure that are general areas. Personally, I like the artistic shots of us in the pits with helmets on and getting ready, etc. The guys never get those as they are always out on track shooting action stuff... I'd buy every pic from you if you did the artistic shots in the pits, etc. They are cool to me and are something that we typically never see. Now, if you call or email Monte or ask me to ask him about shooting an event and there isn't a photo guy there, he will grant you access and allow you to make some coing if you choose. All ya gotta do is ask...

I agree. Then again, on the reverse side of that, your buddy could have talked to Monte or even Jig and just let him know what was up. Also consider that Jig was not pissed after he saw him taking pics and figured out he was not a professional photo guy. We all talked the next day and he was fine. Your buddy might have taken it a little harsh, too. But, I think Jig could have been a little nicer... Joe got pissed at times, too. It's their living - I understand why they could get upset easily...

The Asian guy story is more in depth than I am telling. It easily could have been misinterpreted as an issue... It wasn't, but the guy pissed off Jig because he was where he wasn't allowed and with taking a pile of pics, one is led to believe he is doing it to make money. He came with two guys and came VERY late. But, he was shooting almost every bike that went by... That doesn't look good. There is no rules on cameras. As stated, it is a professional courtesy if you are going up to shoot pics to make money. If you do it for fun and are giving them away to people you know or shot, fine by me. If you come up and say your doing it for fun and all of a sudden you got a site that is protected from people saving the pictures or you charge them to get them via email, etc.? We have issues...

That's the thing... Race day and track day are viewed as one in the same. The riders may not be professional riders, but they buy the pics just as if the racers were at the track. WERA, AMA, etc have a list of photographers allowed to take pics in areas not allowed to the general public... Jig takes pics where you cannot if you are Joe Public. However, since there is no real security, you can get almost anywhere and do about anything... We've had guys on the TV Camera structures taking pics and until a cornerworker saw them, we had no idea... If you are up there taking pics of buddies, that's cool. You'll be able to go almost anywhere... If you post them on a site and wanna sell them, you need to ask Monte if it is OK. In my opinion, if you are going to be shooting 30 people, you need to let Monte know so he can make sure the paid guy isn't going to be upset when he sees you. It would go a long ways to intro yourself and make it known you are doing it solely for personal use...

Think of it this way - he makes a living off taking pics. He is supposed to have access to 120 riders and being able to sell them pics to support his family. It's what he does... If there are two photographers there, that takes 1/2 the riders base from him. His income is effected and he makes less. If you show up unannounced and he is planning on being the sole guy, you've hurt his income and he would be rightfully upset and "pissy" with the guy that was there. Photographers are a strange lot of people. They can be disguised as a friend there to take pics when in fact, they are taking tons of pics of EVERYONE all around the track. Casual photographers are taking pics of friends or people they know. They usually are in bad light or in certain specific areas of the track. When Jig saw a guy at multiple places and shooting TONS of other riders, he got pissed as he assumed the guy was doing it on a professional basis. You're blowing this way out of proportion here. If you are authorized by STT, you can go anywhere and take as much as you want. If you are not and you go places you are not allowed, the cornerworkers make it known and you'll get thrown out probably as Mid-Ohio has little to no tolerances towards that type of behavior. If Monte finds out you are doing it as a rogue photo guy, you will be black listed and not allowed in ever again... It can be viewed as harsh, but understand that if you are up front with everyone, you will know the rules and they will know who you are and everything will be cool. Try and be sneaky? You might get away with it a few times, but when caught, it's gonna be bad. Now, Yota takes a killer pic and posted it online with no intent to sell? That's perfectly fine. It's also cool if he is offered money and accepts. It is just not doing it as a business and to make money off it. His intentions are just to take some cool pics of buds and have a good time. Nothing wrong with that. The pissy part is that an Asian guy was taking a shit pile of pics of everyone... It upset Jig and if your buddy was doing a lot of pics, he might have over reacted...

Wow. Tell that to every racer in the pits across the country and who do standing starts on multiple occasions... What manual states DO NOT USE synthetics?? Saying shit like that makes people freak out for no reason. Syn. oils are fine. Just use quality motorcycle oils in your bike. If you are an avid manual follower, you should note that the codes are listed as to what oils you SHOULD be using and car oil lacks the ingredients so, you are going against what you are preaching. Final note as these arguments are stupid - use what works for you. Who gives a shit? You can find people that have had success running Coca Cola in the transmissions of their cars. Actually have seen this happen at an IMSA event YEARS ago... So, does it mean Coca Cola is the best choice for tranny oil in a car? You get the idea. Everyone has two things - an asshole and an opinion...

Twilights are sometimes easier to get into day of, but the three group events are sometimes fairly tough and as Yota stated, June will be tough... Typically, STT sells over 90% per event so, you are taking a decent chance that there will be spots...

Best bet is that he needs to go to the track and talk one on one. I know he has a couple of guys lined up so, that may be why he didn't get back to him. I'll talk to him today and try and remember to ask...

Again, your opinion is well noted and appreciate the feedback. BUT, as I stated before, people will say the oil they use is the best because it is what they use. Like the best tire deal. Like the best bike deal. Like the best helmet deal. If it is a really good oil to you? Use it and tell people when they ask. It's great. But, just as the OP is wondering why he fried his clutch and yet feels the car oil is still fine to use, it is a matter of opinion. Unless you tear the motor down and look at things like the wear items that matter, you'll never know. My opinion is the three oils we have used that I feel is best comes after seeing what over 60 hours at times on a bottom end in severe racing conditions looks like. The three we like best are the ones that showed less wear and tear. That means something. Not what a salesman tells me it should be doing. While racing is not what you do, understand that racing is where a lot of things are tested and proven. The conditions are severe and will show weakness right away. It's what racing is used for in an effort to make the best product that when used on the street holds up. Because remember, a street motor has more wear and build-up than a race motor gets. You actually stress the motor more in the long run because of how hard the street riding is on a motor... Oh, and the rev limiter isn't a shift light. You do no good bouncing it off the rev limiter all the time...

Joe's pics were awesome and there are a few other guys that do great pics. I was a little dissapointed in Jig's pics, but I really like the angles he chooses over Joe's. Now if we could get them together and do both, it would be awesome. I will let Monte know, but understand something - too often, we have found guys selling pics on a website or forum that didn't have permission. They sell them cheap and undercut what STT is trying to provide. Jig's pics were reasonably priced and within the typical range you find from most bike photog guys. Car guys pay a SHIT load more... I think it is fine to take pics and post here or anywhere you want. Just don't undercut someone and it will be fine. I was hoping other people took some good pics, but apparently nobody did...

I've been biting my tongue on all this photo stuff... Here's the drill... STT uses an authorized photographer that gets paid by selling pics at the track and after the event via his site and CDs. You are MORE than welcome to come up and shoot pics. BUT... BUT... you cannot take them and sell them in an attempt to make money. It's simple as that. Just like at the races - are those guys pricks because they are allowed certain access to certain points on the track and not you? Seriously... You can come up and shoot your load off until your trigger finger is down to the bone. Just don't go and sell them to the people at the track and/or post a site to sell them out of. Unless you email Monte direct (monte@sportbiketracktime.com) and ask if you can come up and shoot for that event if there isn't an authorized camera guy there. It's really simple. If the guy got shitty with you, be a professional guy and tell him you are not shooting any pics that are going to be sold or be placed on a site for sale. They are personal pics and you have a lot of friends you know as Mid-Ohio is your home track. He can whine all he wants if that's really the case, but in the end he is the one selling pics and trying to make a living off doing it. He just wants to make sure you aren't undercutting him on selling shit out there when he is the only one allowed via STT to do so. Just like Press people being allowed to take pics from certain vantage points at the races...

The 15W Motul and Repsol I was referring to was not the Rotella that I think you are referring to. I wouldn't use 15W in a 750 or 600, either... We used to run 0W when we sprint raced the 600s, but now, I think most guys are running )-5W in the smaller bikes... It's just the big liter bikes really beat the oil up and most if not all 1000 racers are using 15W... Some 10W... I just do not agree to use car based oils in a bike. The foaming caused by the oil spinning in the clutch is the reason in my mind. I know there are guys using it w/o issue and you'll always find the exceptions, but it just doesn't make sense to gamble with it. As far as Amsoil goes, you can find tests that show it to be not as good as others, as well... Point is that when you say one oil is best, I doubt you actually tried or tested other oils and really just listened to what was said or saw a test with a limited amount of other oils tested against it. Maxima, Motul and even companies like ELF have shown us where it counts - on engine tear downs and wear showings on key parts that show typical heat and wear with other oils. Amsoil? Never tested it as I think it is a bit of salesmanship in that how they present the stuff and wonder through the years why they aren't more involved in certain racing series. But, never stated that Motul, Maxima or ELF was the best, either. We've used Royal Purple, ELF, Motul, Maxima, Repsol, and even Honda Synthetic... Maxima and ELF stand out to be the best in that series, but we haven't had as many hours on the other oils to see what they do, but I have seen what they do on other bikes and feel the list of oils we have used show the three I mentioned to work best FOR US. Use what you want and feel is best for you. However, when you ask on a public forum what tires are best, what oil is best, what brand is best, you're going to get everyone saying what they use is the best... Just understand when a guy states Pirelli is best, they probably haven't tried Metzler, Dunlop, Michelin, Avon, and Pirelli... Like some people have...

Dude, you are using really lightweight car oil... Bad idea and you paid a price for it... We use 15W oil in our 1000s for racing. The 1000 really beats the shit out of oil and gets VERY warm and tears it down. 10W is boarderline if changed frequently... My suggestions is Motul or Repsol. Both have shown significant durability - especially in these 1000s... Amsoil is "OK", but there isn't any real proof it is better and there aren't many racers using the stuff. Not saying it sucks, just go with what is being used on a regular basis by a larger number of guys that abuse the stuff. If it holds up under the stress and beatings racing offers, it will hold up under street use...

No... this is the fast one. You got the slower version. DAYUM!!! Set 'em up, knock them down. BAM!!:D:D

I sent you a PM. Not the best course for that model in running a 190... Waste of a lot of time and money and will only set you backwards.

That being said, where's all the pics? I thought there were a lot of guys taking pics... Anyone? Post 'em up!

Hey dick eater... Just to let you know... Wore off the fag names you and Justin wrote on my tires... Jig got a shot the first lap, though. You look closely, you can still see the writting... Wasn't pulling in until they were worn off.

Damn... Brutal. It was the TR van, anyways. Don't worry, I don't pull my bike with the roller skate...

Sorry, no posers are permitted inside the track.:grin:

So, you coming up or what? Can't find the poke smilies... Just bustin your chops, Jess...

What's your buddy's name? Is that the Japanese Supersport series? OOOPS!! Saw it was China... My bad. Is that a series he runs?

Gotcha. Fair enough.