Moto-Brian

Todd's right. I had an 00 and an 03 750 and with a TRUE Superstock build, they were only at 135-138. GSXR600s were turds and RARELY ever put that amount down even with Supersport builds. 115 was a grenade and prone to coming apart. But, like I said... You can dyno at one place and get 114. Dyno at another and get 100... KWS is a place with a high reading dyno and the tuners out there can actually make it so they read a tad higher, too...

Yeah, $300 is a typical amount they try and get. Again, the bikes come VERY much ready to go and take less than an hour to assemble. If a shop does the assembly themselves and do not use Custom Assembly, they have a guy they pay an hourly wage and not per unit assembled. He usually does odd jobs and not just assembly... Again, Custom Assembly charges $30-$50 per unit and the fact that they pick up and store to a degree is covered. Also, some dealers try and recoup flooring costs because they either bought poorly or are slow at moving units. Watch the "sales pitch" and make sure you ask for an OUT THE DOOR price. Tell them you want a break down as to EACH charge. Unit price, fees, title, tax, and related. If they quote you $5k on a unit and you know your tax % and the fact they cannot charge over a certain dollar amount (tax and title fees according to Ohio law) then the rest of the amount is freight and prep or whatever they call it. Again, it is an attempt to recover from the "sale price" they quote you to get you to come to them and beat another dealer price. Meaning, they may beat another low price from a dealer by $300, but charge you $300 in freight and prep. That's not a deal... I think making money is fine and something that dealers need to do. After all, the % of margin is low anyways. However, trying to bait a buyer in with a low price and simply adding charges on top is somewhat deceptive and wrong.

Prices would be good. In my experience with your shop, you all are pretty much on the high side of things. I'd promote that you do offers, as well. Reason being that a few guys I know have called and got way high prices and looked somewhere else. I'd try and make it so that you can bargain. Had a guy there give me a price on a set of throttle bodies and was off on retail (Like I wouldn't have checked) and told me half of that. That's no way to do business...

Actually, it's a "legal" charge, but in reality, the dealer cost and holdback are to be used for those charges. What you pay Custom Assembly to build the bikes is like $30-$50 each. Freight is rolled into the dealer cost amount. Dealers charge freight, prep and related legally under law, but it is somewhat a bogus charge. If they charged $50 for prep and related, that would be fine, but many dealers tell their customers that it is $150 plus for such "fees". That's BS. I understand it is a business, but when someone tells another fellow rider that those charges are NOT required and can be removed and a dealer salesman states they are legit, you're right in a sense, but you making it sound like it is a needed charge is stretching it a bit. I think it gets really grey especially when a dealer tells a kid that they can beat a deal only to add on hundreds of dollars more to essentially get it closer to what true dealer cost is makes it a complete smoke and mirrors trick.

Or, if you want to do CBus, wait until Iron Pony gets up and running. The programs they are going to be doing with Yamaha bikes will be worth your time. Just not sure when it is going to unfold...

Guarantee Southside will beat HNW and any CBus dealers. If you think the service dept. sucks, talk to Nutter. They have turned it around a bit over there. If you go to Southside, ask for Timmy and tell him you talked to a guy who said they'd be the cheapest around. Tell him you don't want to go dealer to dealer and want the rock bottom price. They don't play BS games like telling you there is freight, prep and set-up like a lot of dealers do. There's no such thing as prep and freight or set-up... PM me and I will give you my info and you can tell Tim I sent you.

Give us an idea what you want. ZX14s and BKings are shit if you want performance and handling. GSXRs and R1s are shit if you sport tour. Goldwings are just shit and I'd stay away from them unless you like to be teased.

Not too bad a price. A few things I think I'd find out first. 1) Traxxion internals. Exactly what internals. Traxxion only has two types of internals and they don't do an AK-Gas set-up for that bike. However, are they the AK-20s or just been serviced and cleaned by Traxxion. Also, what springs in the front. 2) That's the stock rear shock and typically, Maxc only changed oils and such in them. I see the stock spring is on it so, I suspect that there are no internal valves that have been updated or replaced. 3) Put the Woodcraft rearsets on and have the others as spares. Woodcraft is a better made set. 4) Provide a dyno sheet. Even though dynos are different from dyno to dyno and you can get whatever numbers you want, messing with just the ECU (I suspect they used the Yosh Box for that) alone isn't getting 114 at the ground on that year 600. Dyno sheet would help show that. 114-115 on those bikes to the ground involved internal engine work and head work. Just get those bits of info and I will pass the info around as a few guys are looking for starter track bikes. But, before I go telling anyone, I would want these questions answered.

For street, the Conti tires will be just fine. If you are going to do track days? I'd look at the Michelins or something else...

I'm going to echo Todd's remarks. Pretty easy to do, but one thing I will suggest is a service manual. And not of the Clymer type variety...

I have a line on two sets of Vortex rearsets for 07/08 GSXR1000s. They are the black sets and are adjustable. Was thinking $300 plus shipping or you meet me and get them picked up. Any interest? If not, I'll let them go back.

Ask Kenny. He uses an oil that's "good nuff"! In any case, great info guys. Hard read, but informative. Use what you all want as they have stated before, but in the end, use the RIGHT stuff. After all, it only takes one time and when it goes bad, it gets expensive. I can get you a good idea of what a street bike typically looks like vs. a race bike motor. Never any good. But, we've seen some really good track day guys' motors and some street motors that have been babied. Good stuff in your motor is like good stuff in your body. I can find a bunch of guys who smoke their lungs out, but live until they are 90. I can find people that are so damn healthy they make yourself sick and they die when they are 30. Point is, do what you believe is right. You might win out. Of course, you might loose, too...

Elf has come back and tried again here in the States. We used their Moto oil for bikes. Not sure of anything on the car side. Whatever the case, we had some ZX6Rs that had over 60 hours on the A Bike's motor and when we tore the bottom end down, there was zero blueing and everything was as grey as when it was built...

Good info right here. And, no generalizing with a basis of opinion vs. fact finding. I appreciate and respect people who do their homework. A little more than I would have expected, but still very nice in terms of follow through. Great job.

Ok, since I am daft... Kawi Kid produced a good article from Mobil 1. You apparently thought it was a poor read. You have an article in your hands that I skimmed over and had enough to realize it was one article that SUGGESTED car was the same as motorcycle. They (from your supplied quotes and I couldn't find where they did more) pulled oil samples and sent them off. I asked what the journals looked like. Was there any blueing of the metal parts internally? What was the amount of time on each motor? What did the clutch look like? Good questions with zero answers. Enough time, one can find results supporting AND against said topic. You, however, have thrown out VERY generalizing comments. "tons of racers using it", etc. You get the idea. You also base your opinions on the R6 forum? Whoa. Anyways, run what you want. Nobody here is really wrong apparently so, drop it. Run in your R1 what you will. I personally will always suggest and use CONCRETE examples of how well motorcycle oils worked for us in our endurance racing bikes and sprint bikes. Also from what I have seen personally with street bikes that were torn down. All I am asking is to quit with the generalizations...

Did they use a HD or a Japanese in-line under today's technology? Hmmmmm... Also, Isaac hit the nail on the head. Pull a motor a part and check the journels. Run it for 60 plus hours and see what blues and what doesn't. Do as you wish, but I am willing to bet that your motor looks like shit compared to another one with proper oil being used... Maybe not - there are ALWAYS exceptions to every rule, but you have been put out there as being asked to prove points and you pull up a HD Twin based result and site...

You are quoting a HD twin technology based website? Are you serious? Do you understand the differences between the HD platform and your own? Another trip to Wiki...

K&N filters had a VERY bad track record to the point they were banned for race use. Does that mean they should NEVER be used? No. They've fixed the issues and moved on. But, you asking for examples? Dude, you're the one throwing out generalizations. YOU need to provide proof... Not what your "buds" are running or the three amateur racers you know are running due to budgets and such...

What do you know anyways? He's got 22k miles and knows TONS of racers... He checked Wikipedia and found that the EC shouldn't be on there and as long as it isn't, they are the same.

Again, "TONS" now... I can give you a "TON" of top shelf racers and teams that AREN'T using CAR oil... But, enlighten me. Please.

Again, tell us these "plenty of racers" and let's hear what they are using. A lot of guys use Rotella (oil for diesel trucks) as it contains many the same if not more than what is found in motorcycle oils. It also has anti foaming agents in it, as well... Again, you got 22k miles. You're proof it can work, but I have proof that motorcycle oil works perfect too. So, what's the right answer? Both?

Show us the study you refer. You think Purolator does tests on motorcycles?? Also, tell me why you think the OEM filter isn't good or as good... Try not quoting the Wikipedia or whatever it is called...

The point is that while you are right (cannot conatin the EC logo/name) it is still a situation that under severe stress and abuse that a motorcycle engine will produce (Oil will break down faster in a motorcycle than a car - 15k RPM redline does that...) is something to consider. I'm not about to get into a debate as to what oil is best or car vs. motorcycle... Do what works for you. He asked, you flamed. End of story. You seem wise beyond your years. Me? I'll continue to use motorcycle specific oils and as of 14 years, I've never had a clutch issue...

I hope you're using the motorcycle specific oil... Car oil isn't designed to be used in a transmission. Cars and trucks have seperate oils for each application. Car oils do not have the anti-foaming agenst found in motorcycle oils. Thus, it can be harmful to your motorcycle to use car oil. I know Mobil 1 makes a motorcycle oil, but please tell me you're not using car oil in your bike...

OEM filters are designed and are engineered around that particular engine. As for the K&N question, a lot of track day guys use them because of the safety wire end on them. Here's a bit of food for thought. Race engines are well maintained and are built to be as much performance as possible within rules. They are actually not as abused as say a street bike is, but the idea is that they use the best they can for whatever the application. Race teams use OEM filters...