Disclaimer

$60 is a lot of $1 steaks...

So obviously everyone that has a good idea that may be shared with Karl Marx was a communist. Interesting... Is the $20 before or after taxes? She's not the only member of the three degrees club...

This boils down to another ideological difference, it's just that simple -- there's evidence to support both sides (yea, it's wiki, but it has cites) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_tax I, as I stated, side with the majority of economists. So, while you can argue the "stealing" aspect, it's not really analogous to that when you consider the social, economic, and political ramifications of a flat tax.

How is that "end of discussion"? By your logic, all taxes are "stealing" so...fine, then we should pay ZERO taxes - f*(k everyone else. Everyone can just fend for themselves on EVERYTHING.

I agree, but my point / "logic" was missed. I was just pointing out that it's relative, not that it's ok. Why would you tax poor people the same as rich people only to turn right back around and hand then back the money you just taxed them? Why not just reduce their tax rate and eliminate the bureaucracy of that extra step? I thought the goal was to eliminate gov't where possible?

Remember when you posted that you'd advocate people blowing their money on stupid sh*t that they don't have because it makes you relatively richer. Just because the poor might live better than they did 10 years ago, doesn't mean the relativism didn't increase as well. It may've been a poor choice of words on my part though -- the general idea is the income/wage gap has increased. But sure, if you wanna haul me around in your baller mobile, I'm up for a ride-along through lorain. I lived in Flint, MI for 4 years, there's nothing in Lorain that I haven't seen before.

If I had $100,000 in my pocket and you took $10, I probably wouldn't miss it. If I had $15 in my pocket and you took $10, then we might have an issue.

How is it "stealing"? I guess I don't get why you're such a proponent for the wealthy, are you wealthy? Do you think you'll ever be weathy one day? Why would taxes on the top 2% of Americans ever affect you? If "Trickle Down" economics ever worked, the wage gap and income inequality wouldn't be the largest it's been in history for the US. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. People bitch and moan about the lobbyists and how people with money are the only ones that get their voice heard, yet people CONTINUE to support that exact system and I can't figure out why Is it because one day they hope to be rich? They hope they'll end up in that elitist class somehow, someday? Yea, keep believing that "if you just work hard" you'll be rewarded. That's how organized religion works too. http://www.irishcentral.com/story/ent/manhattan_diary/americas-middle-class-is-dying-and-the-stats-prove-it-99180624.html Just a lil snippet for you http://www.alternet.org/economy/149531/the_class_war_launched_by_america%27s_wealthiest_is_getting_more_savage/?page=entire http://crooksandliars.com/brad-reed/cl-opening-bell-need-alternative-economi

Equality. That's something a communist would strive for.

Awesome!

I'm sorry, I'm sure they all affect you with your six figure income and $3.5M inheritence. Besides the majority of my choices were value-"Bang for your buck"-type choices, not ideological -- call me a liberal all you want, but I'm really an economist, with some morals.

I thought I posted this on here, but I must've just put it on my other forum. I found what I originally put in back in the day... http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/11/13/weekinreview/deficits-graphic.html?choices=wk2165r1

I might actually have to be nice to this n00b because he's got something I want. Hint: it's from Bavaria, but it's not the cream (no homo). Welcome BMW n00b and former Hayan00bsauce.

Cool post, buuuuuuuutt.... The Cella Energy place is making awful big claims, and the article doesn't have a lot of underlying data/engineering with it. Where does the $1.50/gallon figure come from? What is the source material? How abundant is it? I get that it's Hydrogen-based, but there's obviously more to the process. How can you develop something for years in secret? -- with todays 24hr news cycle and tech leaks, I would think their suppliers or contractors would've figured it out and leaked it. Then, I'd want to look at their financials, are they hurting for cash? This could be a "press bump" to get more investor funds... So, again, thanks for sharing, it's cool and I'm rooting for it, but I'll believe it when I see it - kinda like cold fusion.

Parking @ Buddy's is gonna be a bear.

I agree, I don't think even the most bleeding heart of all the liberal hearts condones anyone who intentionally defrauds the system. I'm just trying to find the most pragmatic solution to the problem. I don't think we'll ever develop a perfect system, but we can do our best to maximize the effectiveness while minimizing the cost - and that system will still have inherent flaws which'll allow people the abuse it if they so desire. We can't eliminate fraud, but we can strike a point where there is enough enforcement to keep the fraud to an 'acceptable' level. Honestly, I'm glad you said something to the lady, but there may be more to their story than their appearance (and iPhones) let on. That's all I'm saying. I try to not judge a book by their cover, give people the benefit of the doubt and whatnot, until I have evidence they're schmucks, then feel free to judge away. Everyone does.

Good for you then... and what was the outcome?

Ok, so why didn't you say something? If you're not willing to accept it on the Internet, why, when presented with a situation in real life, you wouldn't say something to the welfare queen? Why can you blanket judge someone on the Internet, but not in real life? If she was really defrauding the system you should've let her know that you don't approve of the way she's utilizing your tax dollars, no?

I'm also a little disturbed that you think people should give up their dignity and self respect just because they've fallen on tough times. And even if we give vouchers instead of cash, that still allows people to get free goods/services. Still wouldn't stop Tb's guy from spending his unclaimed cash on TVs and iPads instead of food and housing.

You see this often? Firsthand?

Do you assume people with 'bling' and iPhones are welfare recepients?

kinda like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_queen

Closer and more practical, but you're still in a circular argument. How do you get a job without a car? How is your employer supposed to contact you if you don't have a phone? How can you legitimately afford any of this stuff on minimum wage? You buy a sh*tty car, it breaks down, you can't afford to fix it and get fired from your job for not showing up. Cycle starts all over again. You could take the bus right? Well, what if the only job you can find is 3 or 4 miles from the closest stop and you aren't able-bodied enough to make that trek every day, esp. in the winter? Like I said, why is the assumption that people are abusing the system? Does anyone actually know what percentage of people are defrauding the system? And of that, how many fraudulent applicants would be caught with the proposed measures? Using Tb's example, the guy he knows just doesn't claim income... How do you stop that?

I'm not speaking for anyone, I'm just asking some questions. Who pays for the drug testing? Can you reapply once you're clean? Who pays for the second, third, fourth..tests? How do you get welfare as a single male when you want to require a BC shot? Where do you draw the line dictating what hoops these people have to jump through to get assistance? It's funny how people complain about having to have car insurance, for example, because all it does is punish the law abiding citizens, yet it's ok to make people jump through all these hoops to get assistance because the assumption is the majority are abusing and defrauding the system. Why is THAT the beginning premise?

I'm waiting to hear your solution. Hating on an idea is the easy part... so present your solution and I'll tell you why it sucks