Disclaimer

Not as much as I'd have liked.

And no, they're literally in my kitchen

That SV1k sounds nice. And that makes me sad mine's in the kitchen.

It's ironic you're in the nuke industry... ya know, an industry started with gov't money and still heavily subsidized by our tax dollars.

If you want to argue,please start your own thread. You're boring me.

If you're just looking for like-minded people to pat you on the back, smile and to nod in agreement with you, go to church.

Don't post things on a public discussion forum on the internet - you're liable to find someone that isn't so agreeable.

Again, you bring politics and liberal ideology into a non political post.

I think you're confused about politics. I only posted that link to show that not ALL consumer lawsuits are frivolous since it's so easy to be dismissive because one idiot DOES decide to sue frivolously. Not only that, but because the company filed for bankruptcy, all those lawsuits magically disappear.

I assume its because you see the words "PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY" and become defensive. "Personal Responsibility" deconstructs your belief that everyone owes you something or is the reason for your problems.

Yes, "Personal Responsibility" is sooo scary for me. Please tell me all about how you're personally responsible for your life in areas that I'm deficient in.

Never have I seen a person; attack, over react, or otherwise become defensive over simple discussions. Anything that is counter to your politics, even if not political at all, you will be there pissing your self all over the place.

Shows you don't get out much - I'm not being defensive about anything, just pointing out how hypocritically humorous it is that - God forbid someone has a contrary opinion to yours, since I'm sure all you do and say is the only perfect and right solution to all the worlds' problems.

I just hope you're getting enough oxygen to your brain since the air is so thin up there on your high horses.

Well, it's still the parents' fault for not buying the safest can on the market right?

The Blitz cans don't have those spouts, which are designed that way because they're 'flame arresting' spouts that prevent those can explosions. So, it's still the parents' fault for buying a can without a flame arresting spout right?

Everyone here knows you can buy a gas can with a flame arresting spout, right? Everyone knows all the other products you buy and all their safety features that are available and spend hours pouring over mounds of research on whether to buy the $20 item, or the $26 item because its safer and will prevent you from becoming a story on the internet where everyone says -- "Ha. Darwinism."

I think the Daily show did some investigation on that...

Bain invested in failed companies 22% of the time... the govt record under Obama, MUCH better.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0712/78918.html

So, it's just bad parenting then when a 7yr old knocks over a gas can and the vapors reach an ignition source, and explodes?

I'm just trying to get a grasp on where some ORDN people stand on the balance between personal responsibility vs. corporate greed/negligence vs. gov't regulation.

Because there's 300M+ people in this country, so there's about 300M different scenarios on how stuff could happen -- so I just want to make sure that I'm not going to see any posts in the past or future from these folks on blaming someone or something else for their own accidents.

Rebuttal: http://central-pennsylvania.legalexaminer.com/defective-and-dangerous-products/wall-street-journals-gas-can-job-loss-claim-is-short-sighted.aspx?googleid=303504

If you consider having "$2000 saved in your house" as talking about your finances... then you might be a ______ .

I'm glad the people on ORDN don't let threads be dictated by the "fact-checkers". Facts shouldn't stop an honest debate.

I'll side with the officer to keep this thread going... why not...

C'mon, you all know you'd tazer a 10yo bratty kid, acting all smug about not washing your car. I probably would've used the baton though... it delivers a much more satisfying thud when it hits a child.

Money and religion, the starters of all wars.

I thought war was caused when you both flip up the same card?

Who the hell would want to be a cop!?! Fuck the police! Go take the fire test.

I know a lot angry, bullied, short statured, not very well educated people that would love to be cops. How tall are you, OP?

But I see what you did there Sniper and I'll be quiet now.

Clean, but I think some of the British manufacturers give it a run for their money. They're near medical-grade clean.

For example: McClaren and Aston's One77 factories.

Aston's One77: http://www.wired.com/autopia/2011/12/how-aston-martin-builds-the-gorgeous-one-77-supercar/?pid=1438&viewall=true

McLaren: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/engineering/8729474/McLaren-Group-gives-birth-to-a-new-era-of-quality.html

That was a cool video to learn a lot of facts about Koenigsegg build and engineering goals / numbers, engine patents, etc.

I didn't say it couldn't be done. I only stated its much less of a hassle for the original titleholder to do it than someone further down the line.

And, I'd rather people actually read it for themselves and get educated than twist my words (since I don't have a huge amount of clout on here). There are a lot of nuances to things and experience says many people are dismissive on here if you type more than two paragraphs to try to explain all those nuances.

I'm glad you actually read it. And to be fair... it's 98 total pages, but the last, like, 40 are examples and pictures, so it's not 98 pages of text.

Lemme just put this here: http://www.franklincountyohio.gov/clerk/docs/at/Dealer_Manual.pdf

Well, if you want to get technical, the seller is, but he is in violation of the law. If he signs the title and has it notarized without the buyer information filled out, at least partially, it is an "open title," which is a big ol' nono. The back of the Ohio title should only be filled out when the title is being transferred.

That happens a lot though, which was my point, and why the seller is still the legal owner. I've been aware of titles that have been "open" for decades.

Now, I don't have a title in front of me, but the only thing the seller is attesting to is the price, odometer reading, and date of sale. , right? Therefore, if the buyer never fills out his portion and leaves the title open for years,the buyer takes the risk of someone stealing the title and putting THEIR info on it and claiming the asset, but if the open title just sits, for years, it can be passed on to the next buyer, and the next buyer, and so forth. The official record of the numbers of owners would be screwed up, but if years down the line an owner wanted it titled, he'd fill out the buyer info and register it (plus taxes and a penalty fee for filing beyond 30 days) -- title is still good.

In this case, if the seller has signed the title and it is notarized, and you have filled your information out as the buyer, the vehicle is yours, legally. In the event that the seller would go print another title at the BMV, your title would still be valid, however, I always recommend going right the the BMV and getting the title in your name to prevent this from happening - you would have to argue pretty hard about the legality of the titles and prove which was valid in a court of law. But once the title is assigned to you, ownership transfers. Honestly, you could leave it like this indefinitely and it wouldn't be an issue until you went to sell it, since Ohio only allows one assignment per title.

That's a pretty big AND up there. If the seller fills out his portion and the buyer never fills out his portion (which often happens if the buyer never plans to register it, and wants to leave his info blank to save him the hassle of getting new title when he goes to sell it), then who is the legal owner? (Legally, I say the original seller)

MCO is good as gold to me. No transfer/tax BS and proof that the bike was never titled if for some reason you need to go get one.

Which is kinda, sorta equivalent to a "title" for me, and important to keep that documentation when a MCO bike would transfer owners. I just know that I don't have the kind of connections to ever worry about getting an MCO firsthand (which is why I been lazy on the initiative to learn about them), only from a future second owner-type purchase.

You get the :trophy: for putting the pussy on a pedestal.

Hopefully you at least get sammiches and BJs, with higher frequency now.

the fact is that it takes a good bit of time to get a title for something once lost.

$15 and proper ID (in Ohio)

http://www.dmv.org/oh-ohio/replacing-a-lost-title.php

So unless that's wrong, I hold my opinion that it's lazy to not just replace the title prior to sale. Since it's a lot easier for the original owner than for someone down the line, but hey, the the buyer doesn't care -- that's fine and nothing technically illegal or a requirement, but I know it's a resale value hit and that may or may not put that bike off the market for me based on my liquidity options in the future.

And, if you have an MCO which several higher level racers only have presents an even greater hurdle.

MCOs I have no experience with, so I have no idea what the process is there, but I'm sure there is a process if you really wanted to get it reissued. And, if the process is so tedius, why wouldn't you protect that document better? I guess that's my point.

Also, how many trackbikes have MCO compared to being previously titled? I'm skeptical there are more MCO bikes than titled bikes.

Do things with the suspicion is it isn't legit and when you do your research and take the proper steps and find out it is, you've protected your investment and above all, yourself.

This is life advice... not just bike advice.

Legally, yes. It's still his bike.

But, since you have physical possession of the title document, it's going to be hard for him to claim it's his, unless he accuses you of stealing the title, the bike, and forging his signature complicit with a false notary.

As it's been discussed... you can sell that bike to someone else and just hand them the signed title from the guy who sold you the bike, which they may never register either, and the cycle continues until someone along the line decides they want to register it and (if it's been dated from the original seller) has to pay the tax and meager penalty for not registering it within 30 days (I think it's 30 in Ohio, ymmv) of the original sale.

Until that point, you can just keep passing the signed title to the next person down the line. And of course, every ownership transfer down the line from the original seller makes it harder and harder for him to find the title and bike if he were to cry foul on the transaction. Regardless, someone still has the title and it can be registered at any time without issue, since they hold the asset and the title to it.

No, see you read what you wanted to read. My posted stated I was curious as to the other things they were lazy about, not "they're probably lazy". That's not a blanket statement, and it provides for benefit of the doubt the way I originally stated it.

Not, how you read it. Words do have meaning, and I do tend to choose mine more carefully (or like to think I do, since I do put an effort into it).

And trust me, I know how common it is. Just because I post on this forum, doesn't mean I'm not reading all the other ones out there or that I don't have personal experience with it. I'm not arguing about what is and is not required for trackbikes to get on the track, legally. I'm just saying that somewhere, along the line of ownership transfers, titles get lost, stolen, or whatever and instead of getting a new title through the appropriate processes like the owner at the time should have before they sold it -- they either consciously made the decision to not pursue getting a title reissued (because it didn't make a good business case) or just got lazy and needed some fast money at the time. I have a feeling that it's usually the latter.

So, you shouldn't buy a Bill of Sale only track day bike. But, I doubt you and Scruit probably have any interest in buying one anyways. So, probably not even a topic you two should chime in on as we are talking as Gixxie stated - track use only bikes that do not need titles.

Please tell me more about what I'm in the market for... and what I'm qualified to comment on in a public forum...

No where did I ever say it NEEDS a title. Just like a bike doesn't NEED Ohlins and slicks either, it'll go around a track just fine on standard forks and street rubber. What's your point? Ohh wait, you're getting to it...

Point is simple. It is a very unimportant item in the grand scheme of things.

Says you, to each their own... but I don't understand it because...

You own a track or race bike and you'd understand this.

said Brian condescendingly, since I've never, in my life, owned any wheeled vehicle without a title.

Yes, it is something several of us maintain and keep, but I can tell you this - I almost couldn't find the MCO to my last 2009 GSXR I sold and was going to do a Bill of Sale only. I wasn't about to go through the process to get an MCO as it is pretty tough to get done. I also wasn't going to try and get a title via a Mechanic's Lean through a shop buddy, either.

And that's your prerogative. I never slammed you for it, other than losing your own paperwork, which I still don't understand. It's not like it's something I leave on the counter next to the pots and pans, but whatever -- I know mine go in one place, so I assume if you had access to one of my titles, you've found them all, and it's not someplace I get into and root through on a daily basis. but like I said, whatever.. it happens, people lose stuff. I just don't understand why you'd just shrug your shoulders over that particular document, but that's my opinion.

I guess I am too fucking lazy... Racers. That's their MO anyways...

I don't understand why that's offensive? You are lazy if you don't rectify your documentation regardless of it being REQUIRED for use as a trackbike, since it's a lot easier for you to go through the process than the second owner. There are a lot of things in life that aren't necessary or required, but some people do them because it's the right thing, or they have personal pride, or they think they'll have 23 years of bad luck, or they'll go to hell if they don't -- like returning a shopping cart to the cart corral after you get done shopping, which is a pet peeve of mine.

You act like I think you're a horrible person for being lazy. We all do things that are lazy cop outs, I just don't understand why it's so hard for you to just own up to it in this case instead of making excuses about work hours and family and stuff.

Insensitive is me teabagging you when I know you have chaetophobia